oil pulling

[shadow]

here is an interesting therapy i just came across...

http://www.oilpulling.com

i'm gonna give it a try starting tomorrow morning, intuitvely i feel it's gonna be a great addition to the cleanse i am currently on.

:)

[Silo9]

I don't know brother, but good luck on that one. I'd try it, but after 20 minutes on a empty stomach, I'd probably puke. But heck, keep us posted! Then again I do a water flush every other day. Not what you think. I drink a gallon and a half of warm water right away in the AM.

Best Wishes,
Dave

[sschaula]

Sounds pretty interesting. Let me know how this goes, because I want to try it, yet don't trust it enough to be the guinea pig just yet.

[shadow]

i love being the guinea pig :)

i really enjoy trying crazy new things.... i didn't used to and i can't remember when i changed, but i remember i decided one day i am willing to try pretty much anything (within reason, i wont do things that are obviously severly detrimental to my wellbeing).

i'm gonna be swishing away while doing mobilized strength tomorrow morning (i don't have 15 minutes to set aside to do it on it's own at the moment, unfortunately)

i'll keep you all posted, i'll give it a couple of days first.

[Coach Flanagan]

I know I'm interested. Good luck

[Connie Brown]

I think I read something like that in Deepak Chopra's book about fitness or health? Sesame oil before meals. Just for your curiosity. Good luck, I'll enjoy your reports too.

[KD Jones]

Could you send me your spit? I'm like, the scientific type, and I'd really like to run some tests for potential voodoo in the dressing.

If you don't wanna, that's OK... I just hope your teeth don't get fat.


i so funy i lafin. ha.

(BTW, I'm the guinea pig type, too. Someday I'll tell you about the radioactive glucose I had shot into my veins... no, that part isn't a joke... and if you say "that explains a lot" I'm not touching your spit, man. You've been warned.)

[shadow]

what was that stuff for?

to do some kind of test?

i've had blood ozonation... thats pretty cool, the day after it looked like i had youthed about 3 years was pretty incredible.... the dude i did it with had the same effect.

[Coach Gostnell]

Someday I'll tell you about the radioactive glucose I had shot into my veins... no, that part isn't a joke... and if you say "that explains a lot"

Weeeelllll, it does seem to explain something....I'm just not sure what. :wink: :D

[shadow]

been doing the oil pulling for 3 days now, first thing in the morning before drinking anything.

haven't been doing long enough to ascertain it's value as a health treatment.... but as far as oral hygeine goes its great. my mouth feels very fresh all day as a result, i really like it and will continue.
it also adds a layer of stress to my mobilized strength practice in the morning as i do it simultaneously and have to focus both on movements and on swishing in the mouth.

[sschaula]

Just think of it as part of coordination :-P.

Interesting. I'm going to try it as soon as I get some oil, probably in a couple of days.

Are you using sesame oil for it?

[AdamCrafter]

Been doing the oil pulling with olive oil for the last week. I am trying it with olive oil since that is what I have around the house for my cooking.
-
I've been doing the pulling for 15-20 min in the morning... Hey, is it Circular Strength for my tongue?!?

the funny thing is that about 7 min in the oil turns really bitter. This was fading over the first four days and then...

Today I did it after briefly flossing, and the bitter taste was much more pronounced.
hunh.

Odd stuff. Teeth feel REALLY CLEAN.

[sschaula]

Cool.

I had to try it, so I went and bought some sesame oil while I was on break. It is very strange how it turns white after 15 minutes of swishing. My mouth didn't necessarily feel fresh, or any better. I will keep doing it for a while to see if there are any results.

[KD Jones]

Is this a combination of Freud and Sonnon?

You know... "oral sophistication."

[AdamCrafter]

Pesqui Odontol Bras. 2004 Apr-Jun;18(2):168-73. Epub 2004 Aug 5.
============================
Toothbrushing with vegetable oil: a clinical and laboratorial analysis
Alciara Alice de Almeida AguiarI; Nemre Adas SalibaII

Discipline of Preventive & Social Dentistry, School of Dentistry of Araçatuba, São Paulo State University:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1806-83242004000200014
PMID: 15311322 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

ABSTRACT

The dentifrices currently available in the marketplace contain many anticariogenic substances, fluoride and abrasives aimed to better clean the dental surface, remove dental plaque, improve salivary flow and its buffer capacity and reduce colonies of bacteria such as S. mutans, the causative agent of dental caries. The objective of this study was to evaluate the possibility of adequately removing dental plaque using an experimental almond oil dentifrice (Titoil) with no abrasives or antiplaque agents. This study was carried out with 80 volunteers, all of them 18-year-old recruits from the military training school of Araçatuba - SP. Saliva sampling and dental plaque disclosing were undertaken both before and after 28 days of toothbrushing with a low abrasive dentifrice (Group 1: 40 volunteers) or with Titoil (Group 2: 40 volunteers). Statistical analysis of the results revealed that the experimental dentifrice (Titoil) did not interfere with salivary flow and reduced dental plaque more than the low abrasive dentifrice, improved the salivary buffer capacity and decreased salivary S. mutans (Caritest-SM) as much as regular dentifrices. It was concluded that if the dental industry replaces abrasive by vegetable oil in dentifrices, these will be more effective in maintaining oral health and will cause less dental abrasion.
==========================

[shadow]

Been doing the oil pulling with olive oil for the last week. I am trying it with olive oil since that is what I have around the house for my cooking.
-
I've been doing the pulling for 15-20 min in the morning... Hey, is it Circular Strength for my tongue?!?

the funny thing is that about 7 min in the oil turns really bitter. This was fading over the first four days and then...

Today I did it after briefly flossing, and the bitter taste was much more pronounced.
hunh.

Odd stuff. Teeth feel REALLY CLEAN.

i haven't experienced any bitterness with the organic sesame oil i am using, it could be the olive oil that is the difference. it was reccomended to use sesame or sunflower... but hey, if it seems to be working!

i am really enjoying the freshness in my mouth that lasts all day.
every time i breathe in through my mouth it feels like i have just been sucking on a mint (yet i haven't).

scott, i reccomend doing it first thing in the morning before eating or drinking ANYTHING (even a sip of water). thats what i'm doing and it seems to be working very well.

however it is my mouth itself that feels really clean, not the teeth. maybe that'll come later.

i have no intention of stopping this practice now that i have started (unless i begin to feel it is detrimantal for some reason).

[Don]

Hmmm, sounds interesting. I might give it a whirl as well.

[siameeser]

Interesting....don't figure it can hurt anything so why not? I need to do something with that sesame oil in the cupboard anyway....

[sschaula]

I have tried it in the morning and it does seem to "pull" a lot more. After about 8 minutes, I had to spit it out because the oil was too thin...and when I did it came out white. I took another small bit in my mouth and swished for another 8 minutes and it pulled out even more. I then ate breakfast and brushed my teeth afterwards. Feels pretty good.

[Connie Brown]

It is very strange how it turns white after 15 minutes of swishing.
Same principle as making mayonnaise. It's whipping air into it.

[siameeser]

All I can say is YUCK. My mouth tasted like sesame oil for hours afterward.

I will try it with olive oil the next time.

[Coach Gostnell]

All I can say is YUCK. My mouth tasted like sesame oil for hours afterward. You're braver than me, Kelly Girl! :)

[shadow]

All I can say is YUCK. My mouth tasted like sesame oil for hours afterward.

I will try it with olive oil the next time.

haha sorry kelly.

i have found after swishing for 15-20 minutes... i spit and then rinse my mouth several times with water and brush my teeth.

i haven't found any lingering taste of the oil whatsoever.

i have to ask though... is it toasted or untoasted sesame oil? i would think it wouldn't be good to use toasted.

[siameeser]

Damien, I'll have to check. That bottle has been sitting in the cupboard for a while. Now I remember why. Never thought I would be using something that tastes so awful as a mouthwash....

[KD Jones]

I tried it with Pam. (Had to spray a LOOOONG time to get enough in my mouth.) All I've noticed so far is that I feel kinda dizzy...

Also, I couldn't seem to open my mouth to get the stuff back out. I must say, it was interesting to see how quickly I could get around the house by sliding.

Very enlightening.

[sschaula]

Connie, it turns white without having air also in the mouth. If I just put the oil in, and move it through the teeth, even slowly, it turns white. I think it may have to do with combining with saliva.

About the after taste...I bought organic sesame oil, which hasn't been sitting there forever. There wasn't too much of an after taste at all for me. Even just tasting it wasn't too bad...although it's not great or anything.

I would also suggest brushing your teeth afterwards...and probably beforehand too.

I don't think I'm going to do this too often, though. I don't prefer swishing an oil which I can't swallow in my mouth for longer than 3 minutes.

[shadow]

I tried it with Pam. (Had to spray a LOOOONG time to get enough in my mouth.) All I've noticed so far is that I feel kinda dizzy...

Also, I couldn't seem to open my mouth to get the stuff back out. I must say, it was interesting to see how quickly I could get around the house by sliding.

Very enlightening.

ughh!!

you loon.

[James Boelter]

I wonder...gum disease and inflammation have been implicated as a 'hidden' cause of heart disease. Apparently, the bacteria and inflammatory agents present in dieased gums is easily picked up and absorbed into the blood stream because the arterial blood supply to the mouth is so rich, and the epithelial/mucus membrane cells in the mouth are very thin walled and permeable.

So if one were to bathe these same easily permeated gum tissues with healthy fats (which fats seems implicated in reducing heart disease by reducing both clotting AND inflammation in the heart and coronary arteries....

Hmmmm...

[Vbrown]

Dizziness from Pam is resultant from the inhalation of the propellant. You might have heard it refered to a "huffing" with the self-destructive youth. Not a great idea.

The bacteria are not wandering through the gum layer. It's coupled with the inflammation of the gums and then the bleeding that occurs easily. Brushing teeth, crusty bread, etc. That is the route of entry.

The healthy oils are only healthy after the metabolic process. Mainlining them into your bloodstream is NOT going to hasten any health benifits.

[James Boelter]

Dizziness from Pam is resultant from the inhalation of the propellant. You might have heard it refered to a "huffing" with the self-destructive youth. Not a great idea.

The bacteria are not wandering through the gum layer. It's coupled with the inflammation of the gums and then the bleeding that occurs easily. Brushing teeth, crusty bread, etc. That is the route of entry.

The healthy oils are only healthy after the metabolic process. Mainlining them into your bloodstream is NOT going to hasten any health benifits.

I stand corrected. I knew I missed a link in the chain somewhere.

[KD Jones]

Dizziness from Pam is resultant from the inhalation of the propellant. You might have heard it refered to a "huffing" with the self-destructive youth. Not a great idea.

I didn't do this... it was a joke. And it's been a while since I've been equated with "youth," at least in that sense...

[JasonE]

I believe this practice may have some benefits, but this statement left me cold:


Dr. (med.) Karach said the OP heals totally “head-aches, bronchitis, tooth pain, thrombosis, eczema, ulcers and diseases of stomach, intestines, heart, blood, kidney, liver, lungs and women’s diseases. It heals diseases of nerves, paralysis, and encephalitis. It prevents the growth of malignant tumors, cuts and heals them. Chronic sleeplessness is cured.”

For these people to claim that any one thing "heals totally" such a broad range of health problems is a sign of... well, snake oil.

[KD Jones]

Thanks Jason. I just happen to have a snake here. I'll let you know how he swishes. Is this snake idea new, or did you read it somewhere?

[Coach Gostnell]

Thanks Jason. I just happen to have a snake here. I'll let you know how he swishes. Is this snake idea new, or did you read it somewhere?
LOL!

[sschaula]

Jason,

The body detoxifies in various ways. One way is through the mouth. There are ways to speed up, as well as optimalize, the detoxification process. By optimalize, I mean make it so you're not primarily detoxing through your nose (for example), but rather, using your whole body to detox. Detoxing too much through one system can make the process unbearable...in the case of the nose, too much phlegm. Other ways to detox include salt baths for the skin, stimulating tears for the eyes by staring without blinking, eating primarily raw organic foods, chewing your food completely...etc. This oil swishing is a way to clear toxins from the mouth tissues.

The cure-all effect comes from having a purified body, not from doing this one technique. The people trying to sell off this technique seem to not understand the detoxification process.

I truly believe in the cure-all promise, since I've witnessed its effects in my own life. I think it's good to not believe that all things can be cured by these types of holistic practices. It would be stupid to blindly believe such a thing...but it'd be smart to do the various techniques and see the effects for yourself.

By the way...I've stopped doing the oil pulling. It was too weird for me.

[KD Jones]

It wasn't me, I didn't post this, I think the scientific method is a lie made up by a bizarre secret society with headquarters in Transylvania.

link to what i didn't post, nope, not me. (http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index.php/site/project/47)

[TNichols]

KD,

With respect to what you didn't post, here's what I didn't say about it:

With all respect to the scientific method as an abstract principle, remember that the folks you're (not) citing belong to the same omniscient priesthood that was telling us 20 years or so ago that chiropractic was "an unscientific cult" and ostracizing MDs who had any sort of voluntary professional association with chiropractors. Chiropractic was an old wives' tale, no studies supported it, etc. -- you've heard the rhetoric. When I was born, breastfeeding was "unscientific" -- all the "authorities" knew that a manufactured formula was a better source of nourishment. (Mom didn't listen, thank God.) Back in the 30's they were saying that nutrition had nothing at all to do with health and disease. Before that it was that doctors washing their hands between patients couldn't possibly have any effect on patient health. And so on. First germs were a myth, then nutritional health was a myth, then Gerber knew better than God what a baby needs to eat, then skeletal alignment's effect on comfort and health was a myth, now detox (enhancement) is a myth. Next it will be something else; they'll sound just as omniscient as they always have -- and be just as reliable.

I'm as skeptical as you are about little green packets of "Hangover Detox" pills sold at check-out counters in truck stops. But the basic concept is that the body has a natural mechanism for performing a process, and it is possible to inhibit or expedite that process by your lifestyle. We do the same thing with joint health; it's not all that strange a concept. A particular detox treatment may or may not work. But the concept of itself isn't bankrupt just because everyone who claims it isn't reliable, nor because you can wave a skeptical MD at it.

When it comes to detox, I'll speak for it personally. In a 6-week situation where I changed nothing else in my lifestyle except initiating a particular dietary and detox regimen (the two were of a piece), I found myself cured of a whole series of annoying digestive conditions, and despite a high-carb diet, and eating plenty, I accidentally lost 20 unneeded pounds. And my energy levels increased dramatically.

I defy any doctor to wave his AMA-sanctioned sheepskin at me and tell me it didn't happen; I defy him to point to anything else in my life sufficient to account for the change. Now maybe parts of my regimen actually contributed nothing; maybe it could have done a lot more good if I had done this or that in addition; maybe parts of it actually inhibited the process, and should have been dropped from the regimen. But while theoretical correctness and efficiency are surely nice to have, above all, the regimen must work. And work it did.

I just recently had a C1 subluxation adjusted. I was having severe neck pain and a serious loss of mobility on the left side; 2 months later, it's all better thanks to a good DC. Into the bargain, I have had off-and-on pain from a particular rib for years; my chiro helped that, too, and didn't even charge me for it. Suppose all this had happened before 1980, and my MD had the clarity to see the problem and the courage to refer me to a chiropractor. The AMA would have censured him for a violation of professional ethics. Human anatomy hasn't changed in the intervening 26 years, has it?

Now in all fairness, modern science has a long history of showing that folk accounts (or emergent theories) don't have the facts quite right. On the other hand, it also has a disturbingly long string of embarrassments where it turned out that Great-granny had it right all along. In these latter cases, a really impressive number of scientists are on record saying that x folk remedy doesn't work. Not "We don't know," mind you. "It doesn't work." No studies, it's an old wives' tale, yadda, yadda. Only when the studies finally come out, it does work. And then they shamelessly spew that little canard about "the best information available at the time." That's a bald-faced lie; they're like a mechanic who swears that 5mm socket wrenches don't exist because he doesn't have one in his toolkit, and then asks how he was to know otherwise.

It seems to me that a little more humility is in order. Some honesty about the limits of their knowledge would be nice, too.

[Coach Flanagan]

Spot on, Tim.

Though certainly there is more than a fair share of scams out there whether they end in "Detox" or even "Rx", to call out the concept of Detox as bogus is pretty bold. From what I understand, Fasting is quite the detox process and Noone makes any good money off that. I would also say that dietary fiber is a detoxing agent, in a broad sense of the word. Sure my body may be able to get that stuff out on its own, but surely making it easier for my body through consuming fiber will make my body be able to do what it needs to do more effectively-efficient, I feel that ties in pretty strongly with your comment here:


But the basic concept is that the body has a natural mechanism for performing a process, and it is possible to inhibit or expedite that process by your lifestyle

Modern Medicine has no conceptual understanding of Detoxification because modern medicine addresses illness and symptoms, it does not seek to address overall Health as its not built in to its framework. Thats why I dont ask MD's for opinions on Nutrition(with the exception of Dr. Mercola and a few others), its not in their scope it seems to me. I dont ask herbalists for their opinions on stem-cell research either. Makes me wonder why they have to pick on the idea of Detoxification...

[James Boelter]

Spot on, Tim.

Though certainly there is more than a fair share of scams out there whether they end in "Detox" or even "Rx", to call out the concept of Detox as bogus is pretty bold. From what I understand, Fasting is quite the detox process and Noone makes any good money off that. I would also say that dietary fiber is a detoxing agent, in a broad sense of the word. Sure my body may be able to get that stuff out on its own, but surely making it easier for my body through consuming fiber will make my body be able to do what it needs to do more effectively-efficient, I feel that ties in pretty strongly with your comment here:



Modern Medicine has no conceptual understanding of Detoxification because modern medicine addresses illness and symptoms, it does not seek to address overall Health as its not built in to its framework. Thats why I dont ask MD's for opinions on Nutrition(with the exception of Dr. Mercola and a few others), its not in their scope it seems to me. I dont ask herbalists for their opinions on stem-cell research either. Makes me wonder why they have to pick on the idea of Detoxification...

Perhaps even more distressingly...if this was explained correctly to me (and IF I understood it correctly), modern medical practice (as enforced by the FDA) says that you are not allowed to claim any substance other than a drug "cures" anything. And it isn't a "drug" unless you can describe its effects in terms of toxicity - ie LD-50, where the study describes how long and how much of the drug dosage was required to kill 50% of the test population. That's kind of the polar opposite of what a person is trying to achieve by detoxification.

[TNichols]

Modern Medicine has no conceptual understanding of Detoxification because modern medicine addresses illness and symptoms, it does not seek to address overall Health as its not built in to its framework.

That's a crucial point, and one that ought to resonate with everyone here. For all intents and purposes, many MDs' practical definition of "healthy" is "not discernibly sick" (or worse, "not afflicted with a condition I can diagnose.") Any of us who've been doing CST for more than a month or two know that's a steaming pile of crap. We know how we felt when we started, and we know the vast increases in vitality we've felt since then.

Not to be slandering allopathic medicine here, I should say that regarding the body as one would a car or any other machine works pretty well in a lot of cases. If there's a discrete, identifiable thing that's not as it should be, and can be fixed, (especially with drugs or surgery) allopathic medicine shines. That's how they got the government-sanctioned monopoly to start with.

The problem is that they're riding a tiger, politically speaking. Their monopoly protects the American people against a host of quackery (read up on what it was like before if you think that's not true). However, in order to maintain their monopoly, they have to pretend that they're the only game in town -- against mounting evidence to the contrary. Most people already don't believe them -- look at all of us who go to chiropractors or acupuncturists. The trick is going to be figuring out a way to keep the AMA from strangling other valid approaches without returning to the anarchy that the AMA was created to remedy. It's a nasty pickle; I certainly don't have a solution other than informed consumer choice, and I'm not sure that's enough.


Makes me wonder why they have to pick on the idea of Detoxification...

It's that 'only game in town' thing.

[KD Jones]

Perhaps even more distressingly...if this was explained correctly to me (and IF I understood it correctly), modern medical practice (as enforced by the FDA) says that you are not allowed to claim any substance other than a drug "cures" anything. And it isn't a "drug" unless you can describe its effects in terms of toxicity - ie LD-50, where the study describes how long and how much of the drug dosage was required to kill 50% of the test population. That's kind of the polar opposite of what a person is trying to achieve by detoxification.

The first is a statement of terminology. The FDA definition of a drug is "(A) articles intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease..and (B) articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals." You could apply any term to this definition, and it would instantly become as philosophically and scientifically loaded as "drug" is for us. Lexicographers have for centuries (or much longer) known the difficulty of assigning useful meanings for words without causing problems of implication and confusion. Given the intent of any substance taken to be a "drug" or a "medicinal," this definition - or any alternate that I can think of - encounters the same difficulties.

The FDA does not require the LD50 test to determine toxicity. It will, however, accept the LD50 if presented. Which makes sense, because otherwise the tests would have to be run again, requiring further animal testing. In accordance with OECP recommendations, much more humane methods of assessing toxicity are accepted. Also the purpose of toxicity studies are exactly what the term implies - assesments of toxicity. It is not required that a substance be toxic in order for it to be viewed as having a valid curative (or palliative, or whatever) function. Unfortunately, one of the tests that replaces the LD50 is still commonly called "LD50"...

In any case, I relent on this issue. Obviously, I believe that there is more to health than the "absence of disease." CST would be an silly discipline for me to think about twice if I thought otherwise. Also, I do believe that there are biochemical actions that can be assisted by actions on the part of an individual. We have more common ground than one might think - I'm simply skeptical, by what I see as intellectual and ethical necessity.

Conversations like this tend to go in spirals because of the insane amount of time required simply to clarify terms. Confusions about the place and purpose of the FDA as opposed to the AMA or NIH or OECP, the nature of "scientific method," which requires humility regarding what one does not know as opposed to the natures of those who misrepresent it, and the distinctions between "good" chiropractors and MDs and those who twist their disciplines, make the terrain all the more confusing.

In the end, we're here for CST anyway. So in this environment, I'm fine with being wrong on all the other stuff.

Blessings.
- KD

[TNichols]

We have more common ground than one might think - I'm simply skeptical, by what I see as intellectual and ethical necessity.

Never doubted that we had considerable common ground.


Conversations like this tend to go in spirals because of the insane amount of time required simply to clarify terms. Confusions about the place and purpose of the FDA as opposed to the AMA or NIH or OECP, the nature of "scientific method," which requires humility regarding what one does not know as opposed to the natures of those who misrepresent it,

:oops: I meant to say something about the science/scientist distinction and forgot. Right with you on that one...


and the distinctions between "good" chiropractors and MDs and those who twist their disciplines, make the terrain all the more confusing.

Oh, yeah. The reality of the situation is complicated enough; talking about it is a real mess. The entanglements and complications of the current situation can be dispiriting, but the history is a comfort. Medical care was a LOT worse 120 or so years ago than it is now, and the political/ethical situation (in the US at least) was every bit as complex as it is today. They handled it, and kept improving the standard of care, and so can we, fits and starts and temporary setbacks notwithstanding. The disagreements are all just a part of the fun, for professionals and laymen alike...

Wasn't particularly looking for a fight; wasn't going to let it pass without comment, either. No disrespect-

[KD Jones]

No disrespect taken. Though I'm not saying I'm in a position to judge anything... your writing strikes me as coming from someone with an honest, respectful and questioning mind.

I couldn't respect anything more.

Also, I very strongly echo your hope for the betterment of the "system," for everyone's good.

Blessings.

[TNichols]

Also, I very strongly echo your hope for the betterment of the "system," for everyone's good.

Amen. Can't happen soon enough.

[sschaula]

KD,

"I'm simply skeptical, by what I see as intellectual and ethical necessity."

If you're simply skeptical, you should treat something unknown to you as "untested by me"...then test it and find out for yourself. Saying it the way you did was a blatant passive aggressive diss aimed at me. It showed how unskeptical you truly are. I think it also showed that you don't like me, probably because of a political post I made back on the 4th of July...which in my opinion, is pretty childish.

But I must admit that those doctors in your link are correct...going to bed early (I say when it gets dark out) and drinking enough water takes care of a lot! At least in my experience.

[KD Jones]

Scott -
I'll try to go back and find the post you're referring to. I honestly don't remember it. As to not liking you, I'm not sure why I wouldn't. As to something I said showing how unskeptical I am... you are free to judge my quality as you wish.

With regard to this paragraph, written by me:
" In any case, I relent on this issue. Obviously, I believe that there is more to health than the "absence of disease." CST would be an silly discipline for me to think about twice if I thought otherwise. Also, I do believe that there are biochemical actions that can be assisted by actions on the part of an individual. We have more common ground than one might think - I'm simply skeptical, by what I see as intellectual and ethical necessity."
This was aimed at no-one, and my last intent, ever, is to be passive-aggressive. I'm happy to have it pointed out whenever it occurs, but I honestly can't find it here.

In any case, if I offended you, I apologize publicly, and ask your forgiveness. If I presented myself in an intellectually disingenuous manner, then I apologize for that as well.

Blessings.

[sschaula]

KD,

"This was aimed at no-one, and my last intent, ever, is to be passive-aggressive. I'm happy to have it pointed out whenever it occurs, but I honestly can't find it here."

This is what I was talking about...

"It wasn't me, I didn't post this, I think the scientific method is a lie made up by a bizarre secret society with headquarters in Transylvania."

I call it passive aggressive because you weren't being straightforward with the way you wrote it. But I obviously looked too far into it by thinking the tone was directed towards me. So there's no need to apologize on your part. Any apologies are accepted...

No hard feelings held here. Peace.