Power generation in ROSS

[Garth Sch]

Hi,

I'm interested in how ROSS creates power in it's strikes and grappling.

My background is about 10 years in internal martial arts + about another 10 years in internal/ external arts.

From this experience I have discovered that the secret is to create whole body power. Each different MA creates the whole body power in distinct ways.

For instance Tai Chi "stacks" the joints on top of each other, creating compression through the joints which "bounces" back at the attacker.
Hsing I uses sunken joints to create a highly efficient line between the ground and the attacking weapon. Bagua uses waves which travel though the body and whip at the attacking tip, it also uses rotational force which wraps the tendons and soft tissue from the feet to the hand, creating a tendon tension through the whole body.

Many "hard" and "hard/soft" styles use muscle tension either during or at the end of a technique. The muscle tension integrates the body creating whole body power, but the body must either lose speed through muscle tension or "freeze" for a fraction of a second at impact.

Of course there are many cross-overs between arts and many other ways of generating power. I'm just wanted to establish that I know what I'm talking about and that I'm keenly interested to know how ROSS approaches power generation, particually for things like the fabled "1 inch punch"

Burn with Fire,
Garth

[Scott Sonnon]

Garth,

I do not teach a style, but a systematic approach to teaching yourself context-sensitive biomechanical efficiency. Would one use Bagua in a pro-boxing match? Would one use Western Boxing in an outdoor venue against multiple, weapon wielding assailants? Survival and victory demand that one must not be limited by stylistic tendencies.

The formula I presented on PAE is this:
PRINCIPLES + FORM
------------------------------ = Technical Application
TACTICAL SITUATION
Power generation depends upon the situational variables, your bioenergetic potential at that moment, and your mental and emotional alignment at the time.

[circular]

Read these two articles from Black Belt Magazine for help:

Secrets of Russian Martial Arts (http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/featurecontent/view.asp?article=199)

More Secrets of Russian Martial Arts (http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/featurecontent/view.asp?article=207)

[SpearHead]

Would one use Bagua (movements) in a pro-boxing match? Would one use Western Boxing in an outdoor venue against multiple, weapon wielding assailants?

Hmmm.... I agree with one of these premises and not the other.

Would I use Boxing techniques in a multiple attacker scenario? No, I don't think that boxing techniques lend themselves well to that application. But then, I'm not a boxer... any longer.

Would I use Bagua against a Boxer? That depends. If, on the one hand, I was involved in a Boxing match... maybe not. I would be bound by Boxing rules and if the Bagua movements I would normally use violated the rules in some way I would be unable to use them and stay in the match (though I'm not sure that a Bagua method of power generation for striking purposes could break the rules as such). There again, if I were not in a sporting event with specific rules I had to adhere to or the movements of my specific "style" did not fracture any of the "rules", my answer is: Never box a boxer.

Maybe I have misunderstood the intent and content of your response Scott. And if so, my apologies. But the two questions you posed seem to be somewhat contradictory. Could you clarify a bit?

[Scott Sonnon]

My initial sentence stated:
Would one use Bagua in a pro-boxing match? Yes, I stated in a boxing match. Although one would may perhaps be able to utilize and leverage training benefits from Bagua, in a boxing match, one would need to box. To my knowledge, no one in history has been able to have a successful boxing career "never boxing a boxer" in pro boxing matches. However, this is an ancillary issue.

My point by both rhetorical questions intended to demonstrate that power generation depends upon the demands of the situation if one holds biomechanical efficiency as the overarching principle. If performance in a specific area is one's goal then the logic of form following function becomes obvious.

And by this point, I intended to communicate that I do not teach a "style" of power generation. The teacher assesses the predisposition and propensities at any point in time and accentuates those virtues to meet the demands of the student's needs... and everything must be tested in the crucible by Incrementally Progressing from Soft-Work to Hard-Work (and back again.)

[SpearHead]

Thanks Scott. That's exactly what I was looking for. :)

[Vbrown]

I've been doing xingyi (and too many other things too) for quite awhile and I notice there are many common elements in the ROSS skills I've learned thus far.

There are certainly differences and they show themselves exactly as Coach points out: different tools for different jobs. And I've started seeing that appear in my xingyi as well. Li Tai Liang (my teacher) will sometimes be in a perfect ground-path alignment, and other times just explode out as a coil spring. You have a job to do, so fit the power generation to get the job done, not the other way around.

ROSS is nicely varied in it's general methods to give you a number of skills to choose from to fit whatever you need them to do. And as a result, I've been able to look at my xingyi practise with much clearer vision.

Vince

A,CST

[Garth Sch]

Thanks Coach and Co. so far for the response.

But perhaps I'm not phrasing my question correctly.

In the "Secrets of the Russian Martial Arts" article, the author relates to being felled by a "no-inch punch".

To do that sort of strike, how does one generate the power in ROSS?

Is it though elipical motions in the shoulder/ arm? Dropping the hips? Pushing from the feet?

For this question I'm more interested in biomechanics than context specific goal setting.

Much thanks,
Garth

[Chuck Kechter]

Overlapping sequential joint recruitment, starting with the toes and ankles and working up and out through the shoulders to the wrist and fingers. Oh--and performance breathing.

Chuck

[Scott Sonnon]

Chuck is correct.

In the specific demo I did for the author of the article, it involved a dorsal rolling of the shoulder area (causing elbow flexion since the distance from him was constant). After the shoulder rolled back and down, the elbow extended simultaneously closed/packing the shoulder. Coupled with this was a rotary hip snap, rooting from the same side heel (rear, supporting leg.) Finalizing this of course was explosive exhalation through Performance Breathing for Core Activation. There were other more subtle nuances involved such as loosely to suddenly tightly packed fist to dampen the 'noise' of the impending force transmission... but useless without a visual.

These small-circle sustained contact strikes were commonly taught in advanced Sambo wrestling, but also for venues such as when one is handcuffed or bound.

[Garth Sch]

Handclap and bows to the Coach,

Oh joy! I really do appreciate the detailed explaination. It's so hard to find people (even in the internal arts) who are equally obsessed with fine motor control.

You've just found a life long member of the Tribe.

Thanks sincerely,
Garth