BodyFlow problem with knees

[Garth Sch]

Hi,

I just started with the BodyFlow program, but I've found something I need to clarify.

Though my knees are injury free I can feel the strain of the crouching exercises on my knee joints. I feel that this strain will probably lead to inflamation or an injury if I continue in this way.

I realise that I'm doing something incorrectly so if someone could give some pointers it would be much appreciated.

Garth

[admin]

Garth,
You're probably doing what I did and tend to do....go too fast. If there is strain, then the principal of 'relaxing into' the position is not being adhered to. Strain means stop. Pain means stop. The protocol is 'smooth and slow' and slow means really slow for some exercises. Really really slow. There is, after all, no hurry. Body Flow is about exploration and deepening our ability to relax into rather strain towards.

So, slow slow slow slow. For myself, my body seems to have an uncanny ability to tense up in ways I don't even notice. And the only way I've been able to notice it even a little is to go extremely slowly. We're talking bio-feedback-slow here. So slow you notice the tensing with every inhalation and its release with every exhalation, sometimes just a tiny tiny bit of release. Using your breath to exhale into the relaxation is a very powerful technique. Let the breath be as drawn out as you can, releasing as deep as you can. I'm repeatedly suprised when something relaxes, because generally I'm not even aware it was tense....until it releases.

Hope this helps.

-Michael Gannon, CST Alpha

[Robert V]

Garth,

I don't have the knowledge to give you a fair answer. I'm sure Mr. Sonnon could answer this also.

....Yet here is my opinion: Since you have no prior injury..."Defensive bracing". Anticipation of discomfort, stemmed from being in an unfamiliar position and fearful position.

I say, "have no expectation" when approaching the exercise. Not pain, not failure, not success or failure. Just do it and become it!

Also, many see Mr. Sonnon do the movements on video or in books and think that is how they are supposed to look. However, we have different bodies, different medical histories, different daily moods, different genetics, and different athletic backgrounds. No two people should look alike.

"Incremental Progression" Time is your friend. The more time it takes you to reach your goal, the more time you have for self-discovery.

One thing that helped me is seeing Mr. Sonnon's own development from the Z-tapes, to GTB to Bodyflow. I saw him grow before my eyes.

Do what you can. Make your breath your training partner. Can you be more specific on the movements that bother your knees?

A few years ago, I couldn't even sit in seiza in my JJ/Aikido classes. The pain was torture. Now, I'm flowing from all types of squats to shinboxes.

Time. Compassion for yourself.

"Incremental Progression"

Robert

[bob_stra]

Ok Garth, are you ready...this is profound stuff.

Get ready.

*drumroll*
...
...
...

FIND ANOTHER WAY TO DO IT.

;-)

(deep, huh?)

It just that simple.

Let say you were doing a sitting shinbox switch. But damn it that doesn't hurt deep in you hip socket. So you place your hands behind you. Ok, that's a little better, but now you really have to 'work' hard to get it happening. So how about rocking your pelvis backwards gently (think of dog dragging butt). Better.

But now your neck hurts. Ok, so try looking up as pelvis moves. Looking down. Head up, but eyes down. Initiating the move differently. Do you start from your legs? Where? What if you started from turning your ribs? Or .... ?

The moral of the story is - you are not a robot. You are a free man. So explore. There is nothing you can 'get wrong'. You are not being graded. You will not win a prize. All the cheerleaders have gone home, even the blond busty one that gives you *nasty* thoughts.

Just explore the given situation (eg: shinbox switch) with the following in mind - "Given this configuration, how can I get from A & B? How can I make that EASIER / MORE FLUID / MORE FUN?"

and if you look foolish doing it, all the better. As long as you're smiling ;-)

Here endth the sermon.

PS: If you give us specific examples of these crouching exercise, I'm sure the CST folk will be able to give you specific ideas to explore.

[Garth Sch]

Thanks guys,

Your ideas are much appreciated.

Playing around with the ball of foot squat I noticed fear kicking in, causing some bracing. I'll play with it statically for a while until I can sink into the fear a bit more.

Burn with Fire,
Garth

[Scott Sonnon]

Garth,

You've already received some stellar guidance.

Experiment with moving from a lateral hurdler's squat into a ball of foot squat, into the opposite lateral hurdler's squat into a ball of foot squat. Back and forth slowly and smoothly. After your practice, record where you experience discomfort, if any.

Once we understand the site, then we can start rooting for the source.

[mechow]

Im with you there, Garth. About three years ago I started doing taiji the wrong way and my knees suffered. There was this 180 degree turn in the first form, over and over. I thought I was keeping my knee over my toe but my knees felt very stiff so I got off of them. They then became much more stiff over the next week. After awhile they loosened up but I found out grappling one day that in a certain position (similiar to the shin roll) they will pop out for a sec. It used to hurt badly but now its just out and in and just keep going....In fact when transferring from the shin roll to the shinbox I have to post my arm to keep from popping. So I am very careful about all this moving around on bended knee stuff. Ive been doing Body-Flow for a couple of months now and where my knee used to pop in the hurdler squat, it almost never does now. Ive been concentrating on that position over the others lately. One thing Im able to do lately pretty comfortably is to be in the shooter squat, and then transfer all my weight and balance onto the ball of foot leg, then lift the back leg up onto the flat foot and back down. its definately a balancing piece, but I find if I slightly pump down into the ball of foot leg it helps me balance to unweight and rearrange the free leg. So things look good here so far :mrgreen: . Let me know what develops for you and Ill do the same. If I find some crunchy cartilidge Ill be sure to tell you. Ive been spending much of my time on the ball of either foot and I find that after moving off it, I get this deep ache inside the back of my lower calf. Does anybody know what Im talking about. I think its just the severe stretching of those tissues, and it will eventually go away. Any thoughts?

[Garth Sch]

Thanks for the help Coach and Co.

By palpation my ITB is very tense, with the fascia having a rough corrigated feel. I've been trying to stretch it and move it for years without much success through yoga and internal martial arts.

What I don't quite understand is that during the 4 corner balance drill I can only lift my legs to the side about a foot off the floor. I can do a reasonable splitz so my adductors are not a fault. The restriction feels in the ITB, though I'm not sure how that works.

Any advice would be graciously recieved.

With thanks,
Garth

[Scott Sonnon]

Garth,

Your condition appears too involved for remote assessment. Please go see a physician and/or therapist.

[Garth Sch]

Hi Coach,

I've had a number of therapists look at the area over the years, the problem is not pathological.

The problem is that that yes, the Ilio-Tibial Band is made up of fascia and therefore slower to release and open than muscular tissue.

Is there any movements that I could use that can specifically open the ITB?

Thanks,
Garth

[Scott Sonnon]

Garth,

My reluctance to suggest any movement regards my suspicion of iliotibial band friction syndrome: a syndrome of lateral knee pain related to irritation and inflammation of the distal portion of the iliotibial band at, or just distal to, the point at which it crosses the lateral femoral epicondyle.

Iliotibial band friction syndrome is an overuse injury caused by repetitive friction of the iliotibial band across the lateral femoral epicondyle. It is a well recognized cause of knee pain in runners so it is commonly called "runner's knee", although the condition is not unique to runners, however, nor is lateral knee pain the only manifestation of iliotibial band injury. It is now frequently seen in cyclists, weight lifters, skiers and soccer players. It has also been found that injury to the iliotibial band and related structures may be noted as lateral "hip" or lateral thigh pain, as well as lateral knee pain.

Any suggestions at this point may be inaccurate due to lack of knowing your condition and its severity.

See a sports medicine doc or physical therapist and specifically ask about this overuse condition.

[Garth Sch]

Beautiful Coach!

I do love the fact that you know what you're talking about.

Much thanks,
Garth