Kali - any tips

Will be starting Sayoc Kali - the martial art used in The Bourne Identity and The Hunted. Any body doing this art? I think it will be a great adjunct to the CB training.

[J.H. Myers Jr.]

Hi Bill:

Thanks for all of your support of my posting/articles and work with CB training. Much appreciated. Please find me and say hi at the Phili meet this weekend too. I am 6'8, incredibly good looking, and was somehow missed by hollywood. Unlike Garm, the other 6'8 guy who will be there, I have all of my hair and no southern accent.

As for Kali, I too really want to learn that art. I would think all of the tight moves wth CBs would equal an excellent cross over in this art. Maybe we can come up with a training program especially beneficial to Kali guys once you start to really get it down.

Thats the bummer of living in this small cow town. It's all korean karate mcdojos (hey but not my school!)

Jack.

[ShaunMccrary]

I have played with Zdrovye movements with the sticks. Try casting with the sticks as well as infinities to get your arms good and loose. If you have been doing your Clubbell work, you are probably gogin to be tough to disarm . Also, all the angles of attack you will learn should be able to be replicated with a Clubbell. A lot of old timers used to train with iron rods instead of rattan sticks ....

[jimschubert]

I don't do Sayoc Kali but another type. Sayoc Kali is outstanding and will fit well with clubbells. I have found tremendous crossover with much of Coach Sonnon's material. Great arts both. Enjoy.

As for what to focus on? Warrior Wellness starts to help the coordinating in ways similar to kali; especially the infinities and work with the elbows and wrists. Play with Swipes and Mills with the Clubbells. When and if you learn it, 6-count sinawali would be fun with 5-lb. clubbells. I'll see how it feels with my 15s.

Good luck!

[Scott Sonnon]

When training SPP for stick fighting, you need to concentrate upon a specific protocol of tension to relaxation to tension on your grip (Check out my article - "The End of GPP" for dynamic grip work). Ensure that you do not over-grip grinds (constant general tension). Keep your elbows slightly bent so as not to condition elbow-locking, which can cause hyperextension when moving at stick speed.

I've posted to this twice without it coming thru. Last try for now.

Guys,

As it turns out Sayoc is based in the suburb of Philly I grew up in. The guy who taught Benicio Del Toro teaches classes. Thanks for the tips/ interest I think the carryover will be great. I will report.

Jack,

We should definitely do something once I know enough to get some ideas. I'll recognize you easy, the guy with one Club bell at order and the other hand behind your back, like in your logo, right?

Bill

[Arthur]

The clubbell work will be really great for your Kali. One immediate benefit is they will teach you to move with whole body coordination. Sometimes in Kali and Eskrima training there is a tendency to get lazy, allowing the movement to come from the hands and arms only.

The club bell exercises will make sure you know howm to do those movements with the whole body.

On a related note I think the cb training will also help to integrate your upper body work with your lower body work. Good luck with the training. I think you'll enjoy the Sayoc Kali a great deal.

Arthur

[Scott Sonnon]

Welcome to the Tribe, Arthur!

[JoeApostol]

Hello Bill,

My name is Joe Apostol. I am a Sayoc Kali instructor in Toronto, Canada. Great to meet another Kali Practitioner. I have not done any CB training but I can see how the CB could add to your stickwork training. In the Traditional Kali I have studied, I worked with sticks of various sizes & weights. I can see how it can assist your training. I myself am planning on getting into CB / KB training for GPP & SPP. Word of advice - SLOOOOW. When playing with weighted sticks / iron bars / pipes, I tried a backhand "flick strike" (it can be best described as going from a palm down to palm up move)....Doing it fast was a bad idea. My wrist was hurtin for a bit.

Another example of how it could help you with your training is how the Atienza Kali Brothers train. I have recently seen the Atienza Kali Brothers perform a Demo with baseball bats. Now reasoning for the baseball bats is that they teach the person proper body mechanics. When I saw Guro Carl, from NJ area, move the baseball using his entire body, I saw how the CB could definitely be used for that. Of course, As Coach Sonnon has mentioned in Body Flow, (please correct me if ia m wrong, I may be paraphrasing it), you have to measure your ROM before swinging it...not swing then measure.

Bill, hope to see you at one of the seminars soon.


Arthur,

Re "whole body coordination": I definitely agree with that statement. I have recently been seeing other Kali systems that truly incorporate the entire body in their training. Furthermore, when testing their approaches, it definitely makes a big difference.


Coach Sonnon,

When you mentioned the "constant general tension", I can relate to that. In stickwork, when moving faster in the particular drills, people definitely tend to hold on to dear life throughout the session. This even slows them more and next thing you know the forearms are cramping / sore etc. It makes sense what my previous instructor mentioned about relaxing throughout the whole workout. Often it is tension at the point of impact.

Thank you.

Joe Apostol
GK1 - Katipunan

[Scott Sonnon]

Joe,

Welcome to the Tribe! Superb advice. Keep it coming as I look forward to reading more about your expertise.

Smoothly and slowly - the name of the game.

Joe,

Thanks, although I am far from a 'Practitioner' more like wanna be. The Sayocs are pretty much knife and empty hand which is what i want anyway. I will check out the family you mentioned.

There's no question that the grip sensitivity, fluidity and power of the Cbs will apply to the Kali. Can't wait.

Bill

[Shawnm]

Hi Joe, nice to see a post from you on the forum. :D

I hope the seminar went well in Toronto; sorry I had to miss it. I hope we can get together soon and share some of our training.

For Bill and everyone else, I recently had the chance to go over some Body-Flow with two martial artists, one from Kali and the other with a kickboxing background. In addition to your CST training, working with Body-Flow will greatly enhance your movement for Kali and any other martial system. The impact this kind of training has had on my own personal practice is immeasurable.

Shawn Mozen

[msparke]

Hey Bill,
I took a week course will Tom Kier, who is the head instructor at the Sayoc Phila. school, it was part of a tacticalawarness training camp. It is great stuff and goes well with ROSS. I guess we will meet next month for ROSS training.


Matt

[Jay76]

Does anyone know if there are any instructors in the Boston area?

[Scott Sonnon]

Jay, get with Arthur who posted above in this thread.

[ratlee]

Sorry to chip in so late on this thread... however i want to add a word of caution...bear in mind that i have no experience YET, with clubbells, however, i have @ 25 years in various FMA. My experience would lead me to say that you should not duplicate your FMA movements with clubbells, because of their weight. I have done the traditional concept of using axehandles, sledgehammers, stone rolling pins to train the actual movements of FMA, and in my experience, it made me slower... and caused inaccuracy... Your body must begin to brake the movements much early with a heavy implement, your legs must slow down in order to coordinate with the slower arm movements, you are more prone to hyperextension.... to paraphrase Coach Sonnon on training for tennis, "you must stimulate, not simulate the movement. My intent, when i get a clubbell is to use it to build flexible strength in my shoulders and arms, core stability and mobility, and leg torso arm linkage...attributes which i am currently training with Bodyflow (which i highly recommend) i will then train the specific movements of the FMA in order to incorporate these attributes into them..Please, i don't mean to offend anyone, and i hope that i have not misquoted Coach Sonnon... however what i have written does reflect my experience. Lew

ps. i also recall my University football days.. our quarterback spent all summer practicing with a weighted ball to improve his throwing... boy was it fun being a defensive back for the first few weeks of practice..many overthrows.

[Scott Sonnon]

Lew,
You are absolutely correct. In CST, one should stimulate the physiological profile of the skills. One should not simulate the physical profile of the skills. (p110 of Clubbell Training for Circular Strength). One must cautiously deliberate Specific Physical Preparedness so as to not cross the line and compete with the actual skills, since different weighted implements register as new skills to our CNS. The general coaching guidance I provide suggests approximating the range, depth and scope of the skills to be augmented selecting from the CST exercises. The most dangerous action a beginning Clubbell athlete can take happens frequently - they pick up their new Clubbells and try to use them as they would in their sport, be it baseball, tennis or stick-fighting...