Wing Chun Gung Fu

[Coach Tran]

This just a draft I wrote today...

Wing Chun is a combative art and not sport based. Its Fitness Value Hierarchy is in this specific order:
1. Function
2. Mobility
3. Attributes
4. Health
5. Physique

Wing chun values application, which is why it is on top. Function or performance is more important than mobility, attributes, health, and lastly physique. This is why bodybuilding and power lifting training hold no value for a wing chun fighter. Their value system is contrary to WC’s value hierarchy. Most great wing chun sifus I have researched have very poor healthy habits and their physiques were just average. However their application and movements were exceptional despite their bad habits. All systems have a different set of values and it is important to know if your personal needs and goals match with the values of your fighting system. Most wing chun students never really look deep enough to understand their own value system or the value structure of their style.

2. Wing chun as a system believes superior techniques and mental toughness can overcome someone of superior conditioning.


Why were there more superior wing chun fighters in the past than now? In the 1950s, Hong Kong Wing Chun students spent more energy and time in developing skills and mental toughness rather than specific physical conditioning. They all assumed that superior techniques coupled with mental toughness will overcome a fighter with greater advantage in strength, speed, size; etc. As you recalled all our WC heroes from that time period spent a lot of time in competition against other kung fu schools. It was through their competitions that they built confidence and mental toughness. Today few compete and develop mental toughness. They do not know if they can really apply their skills and some just blindly follow their instructors. My sifu taught me to value and trust our techniques and being mentally strong rather than relying on brute force. I was taught each wing chun student must test out his art and learn through application instead of blindly following his teacher. It seems today that most wing chun students are lacking mental toughness (competition) and are focusing more on skill development and conditioning. Exercise can make you mentally tough for sure and I believe in conditioning, but I place more value in competition than conditioning. I would love to have the experience of having over 100 matches (win or lose) instead of doing 100 shock ups.

3. Fighting will be symmetrical.

Stories of wing chun mythic characters snake vs. crane, Wing Chun vs. male bully and the past WC fighters have based their experiences on successful symmetrical engagements.

4. Control your center and destroy your opponent’s centerline.

In close quarter combat, it is best to control your time, range, and distance by simultaneously defending and attacking the centerline of our opponent than passively defending his attacks. It is inferior to allow the opponent to control the centerline and allow his movements to control space, time, and distance. It is even less effective to be in a position where we can both exchange strikes. So it is ideal to be in a position where you can control his centerline and hit him without him being able to hit you.

Strategy:

A wing chun fighter seeks to enter quickly and without (exchange) in his opponent’s open and central areas. Once inside that position, he will deliver continuous, direct, and simple to complex attacks until his opponent is unable to fight or intelligently defend himself. A Wing chun fighter seeks to overwhelm his opponent with multiple attacks and control his space while leaving no room or opportunity for exchange.

Tactics:

Simultaneously attack and defend, coverage (not blocking), Gate theory, Triangle footwork, Economy of Motion, Centerline theory, Triangle theory. etc.

Techniques:

Tan Da
Pak Da
Lap Da
Bong gerk arrow punch
etc

Any comments or suggestions would be gladly accepted...

[Adam Steer]

Very cool post Coach Tran! This definately helps me further understand how to elucidate the doctrine of a martial art. I am in the process of trying to do this for my own "root" art. Thanks for posting this!

[Brazenkaine]

Coach,

As a former Sifu-

I used to hear all the time that "we dont' enter tournaments because we'd hurt people." I used to think that was a cop out. then in one of the very early NHB events I saw Igor dump this WC guy on his head and thought,"hmmm I think I understand what's going on here." No harm towardxs WC mind you, just made me see things a little clearer.

In fact, at my school there wasn't a terrible amount of conditioning either. it was, as you stated, based on the skill level. My Sifu and his Sifu, were not in bad shape at all. One of them was a naturally strong guy (who'd be like a ghost if you tried to actually lay your hands on him), so the toughness was built in.

the techniques:
Tan Da is a fantasy technique IMHO that'd rarely if ever work in reality. Perhaps by accident. You missed Bil Jee, a very real and disabling technique. I used this once, when someone pinned me against a wall, and I don't know if he was ever able to use that eye again. There are many others, but just thought that oughta be in there near the top.

I didn't quite get the "symetrical" part, but nicely done all together.

[Brazenkaine]

WC has a problem therein that most arts using scientific methods have. Thinkning of how WC can be explained always makes me think there's WAY TOO MUCH over complication in so many forms of WC. Hence so much WC is "my style is better than yours..."
As a practitioner, then Sifu, and now...just someone who has a jong in their excersise room, it was so aggravating... ah lemme stop here
I liked your explanation cuz it was non-partisan. Refreshing..

Don't forget Bil Jee my freind. It REALLY works!

;-)

[Doc]

Good assessment Coach! I would work the idea of "efficiency" in there somewhere. The overriding idea of trying to be as efficient as possible drives many of the tactics used in WCK. Also, maybe a mention of how WCK uses the Chi Sau platform as its own way of working from static to dynamic and to flowing drills....and Chi Sau as a form of softwork. Robert Chu Sifu has an excellent saying...."function determines form." Unfortunately, as in most traditional martial arts, it seems that lots of WCK guys put far too much emphasis on the "form". Mind-numbing repetitive drilling and an obsession with having the exact angle and placement for techniques has been the norm in all 3 systems of WCK that I have studied.

[Coach Tran]

Keith,

Thank you for reading this draft and for kind words. What do you mean by efficient? Where would you place efficiency? I think if you reread my strategy and tactics again I believe you will find efficiency in it. The way to practice Wing Chun through RMAX is something I am working on right now. I have been working on several RMAX empowered drills, counter conditioning exercises, and biomechical exercises geared for wing chun fighters. My test subjects have been my juniors in wing chun. They think it is great. My Informal RMAX group is based on this docrtine. If you read Ryan Murdock’s RMAX training manual, you will learn how you can do it too. Have you read his manual yet?

Yours in CST,

[Brazenkaine]

Coach T,

once you get a handle on the rmax/wc drills, do post them. chi sau is an interesting animal and varies to EXTREMES depending on who/what school is doing it. in some instances, it would be a light year away from softwork, or anything soft. conversely, there's a a freind of mine. He's Chinese guy, who oddly enough, works in a restuaurant, and just like the old tales, he was/is very serious; very light in his touch and body weight, but ......

and you can just guess the rest

[Coach Tran]

Sifu Kynch,

May I ask what style did you teach and where did you learn wing chun from?

[Brazenkaine]

Moy Yat Wing Chun.


My teacher learned it from Moy Yat himself in the late 70's.

[Coach Tran]

Kynch,

So you are certified to teach Moy Yat wing chun? Arron (CST from Eta) is from the Moy Yat family and teaches Moy Yat wing chun in TX.

[Coach Tran]

Just out curiousity, folks. How many would be interested in seeing RMAX empowered wing chun?

[Brazenkaine]

count me in. btw- every check out Randy Williams ver. of WC?

[Coach Tran]

Let not speak about others, but let us focus our attention on our own practice of wing chun. This can turn into a nasty thread if we go into any particular organization or instructor. I would like to avoid that potential problem.

[Brazenkaine]

The idea of "certification to teach Moy Yat WC" sounds to me like a modernization of sorts. I reched a certain level after training for a number of years, we had a tradiditonal dinner, pictures, some other things and that was it. It was a big deal for myself at the time, having already earned a black belt in a different art. Sometime during that time I started BJJ. We have a very large Brazilian community here, and the establishing of a Gracie academy was inevitable.


The WC school we had was VERY uncommercial. Not like any I'd ever known, or have yet to see. It was fashioned after the early NYC school. Not advertised, cheap dues, and in essentially a hidden spot. Very trad in that regard. About 5 yrs after I left, they shut their doors for good. When I practiced/taught it, there was no such concept as a certified teacher, ranking etc.

Keep in mind, that my Sifu and Si Gun (only a year diff. in traing twix the 2) were w/Moy Yat early on. Both paid HUGE $$$ to Moy Yat for their Chinese names, not to mention large amounts of "lucky money" over and over again throughout their association w.Moy Yat. Such is the Moy tradition. Not to mention many other dues.

Both of those men are great teachers and great fighters. My Si Gun also got into BJJ a bit after I did. In fact, I'd heard WC great Samuel Kwok is now paired up w/the Carlson Gracie system! Good move. Kwok is serious.

If there is now a cert to be a teacher, that's a new one for me.

Though, it wouldn't surprise me.........

[Coach Tran]

Kynch,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I understand where you are coming from and traditionally there were no belt systems in WC. However I can understand the need for it if you have a large organization. In trying to keep this thread friendly to all those who are interested in WC, please do make any negative comments about specific person or organization. Be mindful and respectful that others may be students of so and so person or belong to so and so organization.

[Brazenkaine]

I do think that I have mentioned all names with due respect. Glad you enjoyed the read!

cheers

[KD Jones]

I would be VERY interested, Coach Tran. I feel that the mechanics of Wing Chun are valid - though I say this from a postion of limited understanding and experience. And since A) I made a promise to myself to "complete" the study in which I'm currently involved (it's a belted WC 'derivative') and B) it's clearly going to be a while before I can seriously persue Flow Fighting, any greater depth of view into WC or ways to incorporate THP specifically and RMAX in general into my training will be INVALUABLE.

I hope Coach Murdock will approve of my saying this, but I think the same may be said for Wing Chun as I expect can be said for Bunjinkan... seeing the application of RMAX principles and methodologies would be valuable for anyone regardless of their chosen discipline.

I would certainly want to support you in any way possible if you were to undertake this.

Blessings.

[Coach Tran]

KD,

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. Wing Chun is such as a specialized art and this art is truly dear to me. I think this will be my pet project.

[Brazenkaine]

looking forward to reading your posts Coach T

[TJohn]

Hello,

Its been a while so i am getting use to this new forum here. I saw this post on WC so i decided to look at it. I was a student for a number of years in WC i dont claim to be an expert but i have seen the 3 forms and the wooden dummy set the weapons sets are ones i really havent touched. It would be very interesting to see what you guys in RMAX could do with WC and its structure.

I have seen numerous articles on WC and seen most of the top practioners articles/books/etc. Most of it seems the same with slight differences. There have been a few like Robert Chu that can explain things in WC very well and is open minded. Again there a TON of different orgs with politics which i stay away from cause all it gets you is a big headache.

So again it would cool to see someone offer their insight to WC that all people in combat/MA could look at and get something from it.

John

[Robert V]

oops!

[Robert V]

"... but I place more value in competition than conditioning. I would love to have the experience of having over 100 matches (win or lose) instead of doing 100 shock ups.".

This is very interesting. I'm one who believes the art isn't as important as the training method. What does your "Hardwork" look like? How do you integrate competiton in your training? I've studied more traditional styles like Wing Chun, Hsing-I, traditional JJ and Aikido, but it was always very difficult to grasp those arts "functionality" because of my experience in boxing, Muay Thai, San Shou, wrestling, Judo and submission grappling. In the later arts I mentioned the funtionality was much easier to grasp due to the fact that the tactics I learned and practiced, I was able to immediatedly practice them live against restistance. It wasn't the art, but training method that won me over.

I love the thought of someone taking a method like Wing Chun and making it "alive and functional" without relying on stories that are 1000 years old. But I do believe that conditioning and competition are brothers, for through competition you learn the value of conditioning.

[Scott Sonnon]

Place an equivalent value...

http://www.rmaxinternational.com/images/pdt.gif

[301stSpartan]

Let me start this post with a little of my background with regards to Wing Chun: For years and years, I read the occasional magazine article on Wing Chun, without anything clicking for me. About five years ago, I started picking up Wing Chun Books and reading them over and over, and over again. To understand more, I enrolled in two famous schools of Chinese Kung Fu, each lead by a world-class practitioner. One was even a former, All-around, National Champion of China, during Jet Li’s reigning era with the Beijing Wushu team. Neither of these schools practiced Wing Chun however. So, while I practiced a decidedly northern Mantis Hand and traditional O-mei Wushu, I continued to think about Wing Chun. When I finally got to a Wing Chun training hall it was run by a guy who was a third-generation student of the great Wong Shun Leung. He also was evidently off in Hong Kong trying to become the next post-Shaw Bothers superstar. I was at the mercy of the high-strung, 19 year-old who lead training in his absence.

I have to say, the way I imagined the energy of Wing Chun was different than what I discovered. My new acquaintance assured me that Wing Chun was by far the most effective martial art for real combat. I smiled and agreed, telling him that I had found my self-renovated Wing Chun to be really great for keeping people out of my pockets and away from my guns and gear, whenever I had occasion to get decked out in full military kit. Needless to say, he looked at me rather blankly.

From what I understand, the earliest Wing Chun-like thinking developed along a Chinese paradigm shift in hand-to-hand combat somewhere during the late 1600’s. Supposedly, in that era, a line of thought was taking shape wherein, the central design considerations for developing the combat training programs of various militia units and secret societies, was the concepts of time and space themselves.

The older line of thinking was that individual performance and self-expression were the two main factors that allowed a young warrior to live long enough to become an old veteran. The newer thinking was that old veterans were too few and far between – it was held that a more consistent system of imparting combat wisdom could be developed that would both shorten the time needed to prepare a fighting force, and would have an incremental progression that would permit a much wider swath of the citizenry to serve as viable fighters.

In the book, Mastering Kung Fu, by Garrett Gee, the author explains that The main idea of the early Wing Chun period was that there can only be one “most efficient” position in battlefield space and time for the placement of weapons for any given strategy or tactic.

Of course, the shortness of the shortest measurable moment is limited only by the measuring equipment that one has access to. For practical purposes, this makes the division between “most efficient” and “no longer relevant” less than paper thin. For this reason, Wing Chun can be hugely confusing for the student.

To date, the most common way to transmit Wing Chun has been directly from one person to the next. The clearest Wing Chun explanations have been the ones delivered with “talking hands”. Short of these, we have all the politics that we all wish to avoid. Most old Chinese guys feel that it is bad form to discuss martial arts theory. This is especially the case with those from Chan or Zen based systems, of which Wing Chun is included.

I envision RMAX-powered Wing Chun to be in perfect alignment with the intentions of those late 17th Century thinkers who envisioned that Wing Chun would accelerate a trainee’s ability to discern a path to self-mastery, lead to increased movement efficiency, and ultimately enable them to survive in battle.

It will be exciting to see RMAX-powered Wing Chun evolve.

[Coach Tran]

Robert,

Anyone within the wing chun martial culture can understand that "mental toughness" is what is lacking in today training. Attritube conditoning and skill development was easy, expected, and the norm at my school, but competition was not focus. For me this is where I need to work on and what I believe most WC students need to develop.

John and Vern,

Thank you for reading this and sharing your thoughts. I hope I can share with you what I have developed for the wing chun athlete.

[KD Jones]

Anyone within the wing chun martial culture can understand that "mental toughness" is what is lacking in today training. Attritube conditoning and skill development was easy, expected, and the norm at my school, but competition was not focus.

I agree. Even though the school I attend is an offshoot of Wing Chun, the same tends to be true, though work is being done to correct it.

During sparring sessions, in a case like mine, the gap between technique and competition is evident during a particular drill, in which one person is to use his/her Gung Fu skills, and the other is some meathead street cat. In my case, this inevitably results in comments resembling "you do more Gung Fu when you're not doing Gung Fu..." I can't help but think that this is the result of the lack of something very like the softwork-hardwork continuum, in which the "techniques" become part of a natural system of mechanics.

So, under duress, at the very least for some of us, the "skills" disappear, and the result is a certain amount of fear of engagement, even in an environment that is expected to be supportive and controlled. And the adaptation is one that reinforces fear.

To some extent, I think it becomes a vicious cycle for the school. Some students feel the hole caused by lack of sparring, so there's some push to spar. Some students have considerable feasr even around friendly engagement, so there's some push not to spar. So the middle ground is too little (to allow a sensible progression), too soon (to allow any sense of comfort), which rather than being "cautiously safe" is still too much for many. But since it seems like it couldn't possibly be too much... even the fearful tend not to quit or look for another avenue; instead the reinforcement of fear continues on, just under the radar, but with all the destructive power a beast could want.

[Robert V]

Read Coach Sonnon's "Combat Sport is SPP for Combat".

[Robert V]

This is from Coach Sonnon's "Combat sport is SPP for Combat". You must read the entire article.



"...The most effective and the most sustainable form of combat specific physical preparedness (SPP) is… combat sport. This realization sheds a completely new realization on the nature and purpose of combat sports.

In any form of conditioning, winning is not the primary objective. For instance, it is the performance not the completion of the repetition in lifting which is the primary objective. It’s the form, the quality of movement, which remains the primary performance goal. Never sacrifice form to complete a rep. Avoid going near the nerve, to failure, so that you continue to progress in quality, diminish recovery time and improve satisfaction. The same is true of competition as part of a complete philosophy of martial arts as is expressed below in my diagram from Flow-Fighting called the Performance Diagnostic Trinity..."

[KD Jones]

Of course, the shortness of the shortest measurable moment is limited only by the measuring equipment that one has access to. For practical purposes, this makes the division between “most efficient” and “no longer relevant” less than paper thin. For this reason, Wing Chun can be hugely confusing for the student.

I don't know if this was even in your thoughts while writing this, but for me, this is a perfectly lovely riff on the newcomer's always strange experience with Wing Chun "sensitivity."

Very nice, whether taken this way, or more generally.

[301stSpartan]

KD, Thank you for your kind comments. You were right on in sharing my thoughts regarding the culture shock that many people experience when they come across the concepts expressed in Wing Chun for the first time. I referred to it as “hugely confusing” in my last post, but this sort of thing (the initial awe) is common.

When I first saw the dynamic body solutions to combative problems, that Coach Sonnon embodies so well, I nearly quit my job! I was working at the time as a renegade functional fitness trainer in a conventional fitness setting. After spending five days immersed in flowing movement, returning to my “old world” was depressing.

The “self-discovery” of Wing Chun, is for many people, the first time they have come across a martial art that actually encourages them to find ways to apply their training.

Equipping someone with the Wing Chun System is essentially providing them with a plumb bob, compass, protractor, and ruler and then teaching them how to survey a fight.—That is what attracted me to it anyway.

I had been exploring the ideas of “No stances, No Forms, No Rules” for some time and was loving every minute of it. My goals were to be able to spontaneously adapt to unforeseen circumstances and to be able to re-direct my full resources to any emerging purpose instantaneously. This concept is great, but for true combat (read this as street fighting in Baghdad with 50lbs. of military kit on.) it is problematic. Military combat is arranged along the lines of strict time schedules. I discovered that some guidelines would be helpful to assist a fighter to triage and prioritize combative sub-goals on the fly. Otherwise, breaks in flow occur and it becomes easy to loose accountability of your mates’ locations and status. The important thought for achieving time-dependant objectives in combat is “Sure, this ballet could unfold in an number of different ways, but I need for you to be non-resistant – NOW!”

I found that there were a lot of historical solutions to this issue, with Wing Chun being just one.

I hope that what I am writing here is not too gritty. This RMAX forum is way too cool and has too pleasant an energy, for someone like me to take away from it by being overly uncool.

[Robert V]

“...Sure, this ballet could unfold in an number of different ways, but I need for you to be non-resistant – NOW!...”

Maybe the funniest thing I've ever heard!

[Coach Tran]

Bao, first of all, I would like to compliment you on your attitude. Your contributions and participation on the Messageboard indicate to me that you devote serious mental energy to Wing Chun. You think and ponder and analyze, and this is a very good thing. I encourage all Wing Chun students not to just do things by rote or because someone tells them, but to genuinely consider what it is they are attempting to achieve. Whether or not you understand everything correctly at first is not so important. The intention is what counts, and what will carry you forward in the development of your martial art.

Every Wing Chun student has an individual motivation for learning the system. There are Wing Chun practitioners whose interest is not necessarily the same as yours or mine, i.e., fighting. For example, some learn Wing Chun because they are interested in it as an art form or a cultural expression. These people may make good teachers, but are not necessarily good fighters. In any event, their emphasis will be different than someone who wants to concentrate on combat.

Now let me address what I consider the heart of your analysis:

I would say that the paramount element in any martial art, in the hierarchy of values, as you express it, are the principles and theories of the style, which in this case is Wing Chun kung fu. Next in importance would be the application of those principles and theories to the techniques.

After this would come the application of the concept behind each individual technique. This encompasses the application of timing and distance; a technqiue will not function effectively if these are off.

Power training could be defined as the ability to accomplish a fighting task or technique, to make something happen. This is partially physical strength and partially coordination. When I use the word "coordination" in this context, I am not speaking of mere reflexes or dexterity, such as the ability to juggle three balls in the air or hide an Ace up your sleave. I refer to the use of the principles of physics, including leverage. For example, I want to pull your arm in a certain direction. By using mere physical strength - the muscular strenth of one arm - to drag it, I may or may not be successful in accomplishing my purpose. But, if I use my entire body - arm, both shoulders, hips, the horse simultaneously - plus jerking your arm, this is much more powerful.

The use of imagination is highly important. Wing Chun, in comparison with other martial arts, is very abstract and, in some ways, cerebral. Other systems might teach a student to execute a gross physical motion, such as a punch or a kick. In good Wing Chun training, we employ pre-visualization - imagining a situation in advance - so that the body reactions are already prepared. By training in your mind, you are pre-conditioning the reflexes. It is not an accident that the initial requirement of the First Form is named 'Little Imaginations'.

Body-strengthening and weight-training do have value. The difference is that in Wing Chun we focus not on strengthening the short muscles, which - after cessation of training - rapidly run to fat as is obvious from observing Western bodybuilders and athletes. We train what in Chinese are called the long muscles, which may correspond in English to the tendons and ligaments. I, personally, have not trained since 1959, yet I still have very strong long muscles. Eventually, they do lose strength without training, but at a much slower rate than the so-called short muscles.

I do not agree that good health habits are unimportant in terms of fighting ability. A healthy lifestyle and body will certainly augment one's combat effectiveness. Yes, technique and mental conditioning can enable one to overcome stronger, larger, faster opponents, depending upon what they know and have the ability to apply. However, all things being equal, health is an attribute. Individuals may choose to engage in habits not conducive to health, but this choice would affect their ability. Speaking for myself, I freely admit that I would be a better fighter today had I chosen, for example, to maintain my physical training or refrained from smoking. Just because this was not my priority does not mean that it has not had its effect.

I will share a event that totally altered my attitude in martial arts. When I became Yip Man's private student, the first thing he asked me was whether or not I believed what he would teach me was true. Automatically, I replied "of course". He responded to the effect that "then you will not succeed". He proceeded to explain that it was vitally important for me to prove to myself that what he was teaching me was workable and effective. It was essential for me to thoroughly understand it and be able to use it. In martial arts as in life, most people are followers and need someone in authority to tell them what to do. They want the sifu to direct them without the requirement of independent thought on their part. Why? Simply because it's easier to have someone else think for you. On the other hand, this is not nearly as valuable, and not nearly as personally satisfying.

Regarding your #2, below, I would agree with you.

I am not clear on your meaning in #3, below, when you refer to symmetrical engagement. A fundamental aspect of Wing Chun theory - per #2 above - is not using strength against strength, but employing the opponent's strength against him.

#4: These days, the term "centerline" is much misused. In Wing Chun, the centerline constitutes the shortest distance between two points, between the opponents. Since the fighters are shifting their positions, the centerline is always evolving, constantly changing. It, therefore, follows that one cannot destroy a centerline because it's always a new centerline.

Regarding strategy, I would suggest that there is much more to it than you indicate. In attacking before the opponent makes his move, you are committing yourself. This invariably leaves parts of the body open to counter-attack. In doing so, you are walking into the opponent's set up instead of the other way around. The best Wing Chun strategy involves the use of your body language to entice him into reacting in a certain manner that serves your purpose. In Western boxing they employ feint and deception. In Wing Chun we, perhaps, intentionally leave an area of the body exposed because we want our opponent to attack that area. Or, I convince you that I am going to punch you in order to get you to react to that belief when, in reality, my intention is to kick you.

I hope some of this is useful and stimulates further thinking on your part. Keep up the good work, Bao.

Duncan Leung


I wanted to thank Duncan Leung Sibak (my sifu's senior in the wing chun system; he is my gung fu uncle) for his insight and guidance. My sifu Allan Lee and Sibak are very close and they have been a great source of inspiration and source of knowledge for me. (For those who don't know, Duncan Leung is one of the most regarded wing chun fighter within the Yip Man Wing Chun branch. He was also a friend of the late Bruce Lee and his flat was above his childhood Hong Kong apartment.)

[Matthew Barnes]

I have never heard the term "short muscles" before. I like the idea of "what in Chinese are called the long muscles, which may correspond in English to the tendons and ligaments". Made me wonder if in RMAX terms he is talking of the myofascial net, tensegrity, and increased neural efficiency. Seems to me that the efficiency would last longer than the strength of the muscles.

Just thinking out loud.

[brooklynnn]

I know I'm late but I would love to be involved in a RMAX powered wing chun.

[wildman]

Just out curiousity, folks. How many would be interested in seeing RMAX empowered wing chun?


count me in.

[Coach Tran]

I will be working with Kelly Swan and Martin in NYC for our informal RMAX group.

If you guys are reading this, then bring shin guards (soccer kind and a martial artist kind that covers the whole shin), a groin cup, gloves, and forearm guards. There will be plenty of hardwork to be done.