Yoga - yay or nay?

[bob_stra]

Note:
I admit that I'm very, very ignorant about yoga. I took perhaps 4 sessions of Kundalini (meditation) yoga 7 yrs ago. That's where I'm coming from, so please do excuse the subsequent stupidity.
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A question that's been on my mind lately is - Yoga, worth investigating or not? I get the impression that the physical yogas (ashtanga etc) are quite static in their approach, combining the isometric holding of poses with passive stretching. Given what we now about ballistic stretching and injury prevention, I have shied away from yoga like the dickens!

Still, every now and again, I see all those weird, balancing on hands poses and I think "that's cool".

So, if anyone could give me some answers here -

(1) What is the purpose of yoga? I realize that yoga means yoke, and the one of the aims is to unite body with mind. Realistically however, what does this mean in an average class? Is yoga reduced to simply a method of resistance exercise?

(2) Compared to bodyflow or even pilates, yoga seems quite static. Or am I seeing it wrong?

(3) In doing the various postures, are the "ideal" version dogmatically stuck to, or is everyone allowed to find their own variation?

(I've read Scott's "zdorovye answers yoga riddle" musing if that's any help).

As I said, I'm trying to get a clue here, so I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes. I'm interested in yoga, but not in anything that is a straightjacket.

[admin]

Bob,

Traditionally, there were/are many branches of Yoga. The word itself means to unite. Yoga is from the same root as yoke, as in yoking oxen to a cart. So in the ancient Hindu tradition, it signified any discipline that helped unite man's soul with the Divine. The various branches were codified around 200 BC by a guy named Patanjali. Examples are Karma Yoga (way of action), Bhakti Yoga (way of devotion), Jnana Yoga (way of the mind), Hatha Yoga (way of the body), etc. This is just a rought sketch, but the idea is that there was a path for everyone, each suitable to a particular personality.

As it came to the West, Hatha Yoga become the best known branch of the Yoga tree and has somewhat lost its original intent as a spiritual practice, degenerated (some would say) into just a health exercise.

So when people speak of Yoga, they are usually refering to the physical style of practice, a style that was originally intended to aid an otherwise meditative life-style of doing lots of contemplation (sitting). If I were going to compare Body Flow to any yoga style, it would have to be to what is called Raja Yoga, the way that encompasses all the others and goes beyond them, the Royal Yoga. It includes all aspects of the body/mind/spirit trinity and seeks to unite them all into a more comprehensive approach for a life oriented to self-transcendence.

The exercises in Body Flow are just a beginning, a part of a whole that intends to unbind the ego and open a person to Life on every level of which we are capable. Seen in that light, one could argue that Body Flow is the quintessence and evolution of all yogas. :)

[Scott Sonnon]

Like Michael beautifully stated, Body-Flow is very much a yoga in the original sense of the word.

[sammybaby]

Bob,

I'm very much a yoga newbie (I've been on-and-off attending a weekly power yoga class for about a year), so you should listen to whatever I say advisedly. With any luck Bill and Steve will get in on this thread as well - either can speak to the question with much more authority than I.



(1) What is the purpose of yoga? I realize that yoga means yoke, and the one of the aims is to unite body with mind. Realistically however, what does this mean in an average class? Is yoga reduced to simply a method of resistance exercise?

Ask ten people, get twelve different answers. Yoga as it's practiced in much of the US is both a bodyweight exercise, and a form of moving meditation. In the class I attend, there's signifigant emphasis on the meditative aspects, but that doesn't stop me from working up a big sweat. A tough power yoga session leaves me with a sort of general all-over soreness (the "good kind" of soreness, if that makes sense) that I find difficult to replicate using other modalities. On a good night, it's also very relaxing, something I cannot say for most of the other forms of exercise in which I participate. (Body-Flow being an important exception)


(2) Compared to Body-Flow™ or even pilates, yoga seems quite static. Or am I seeing it wrong?
Flowing through vinyasas can be very fluid, although there are almost always static poses. That's not a bad thing: Scott's 4CBD is an example of a static pose that serves a few purposes (balance, stabilizer strength in the ankle/foot) admirably. Incidentally, the the 4CBD has been having a dramatic effect on my balance poses in yoga.


(3) In doing the various postures, are the "ideal" version dogmatically stuck to, or is everyone allowed to find their own variation?
Personal bias showing now: any yoga instructor worth his/her salt will balance the desire to get the "correct" textbook posture with the current level of ability and physical limitations of the student. I'm lucky to have teachers who are good in that regard - they invariably offer variations to people with injuries or other obstacles.

With that said, they do attempt to get students whom they feel are capable to do postures "correctly," usually by manually applying gentle pressure to guide the student into position.


As I said, I'm trying to get a clue here, so I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes. I'm interested in yoga, but not in anything that is a straightjacket.
There's a simple solution to your dilemma - get to a yoga class, preferably a couple different ones, offered by different instructors, in different locations. If you find them rewarding, stick with it - if not, you've only lost an hour or two.

[James Boelter]

I tend to agree with Steve Barnes in his promotional material for his '5 Minute Miracle' Video - not so much that 'yoga sucks' as that it isn't the most effective or efficient way to build your health and vitality, and that it's a little too 'static' and passive for my tastes.

The 5MM demonstrates a simple set of exercises popularly labeled 'The 5 Tibetans' that, IMO, do provide 90% of the benefits of hatha yoga practice in much less time (15-20 minutes a day at the highest level) and effort. That is not to say that you will automatically be a master of the difficult and challenging Primary Series of Ashtanga yoga once you are good at the 5 Tibetans - rather, that similar beneficial effects on your glands, internal organs, tendons and 'chakras' (don't get me started on chakras) will accrue without having to tie yourself in knots or balance on one leg for extended periods of time.

I practiced 'hot' Bikram yoga for a couple of years, and I still miss it...but what I miss most about it was the experiencing of doing it in class, with the group energy and the encouragement of the (teacher (who l liked a lot and respected and admired). I always felt like a million bucks afterwards, but was still not satisfied, if that makes sense. I feel that BodyFlow addresses the aspects missing from yoga that left me unsatisfied.

[Robert V]

The class I teach combines yoga, pilates, BodyFlow and ballet.

As a former lifter, I was impressed by the powerful arm balances of Ashtanga yoga. Then, the one leg balancing and "tough" attitude of Bikram yoga. I then did my Pilates' teachers training in Stott. And I studied ballet for several years.

The yoga philosophy is what I embrace in my class. Yet, you can apply the yoga concepts to anything. My understanding of yoga concepts deepened when I began Bodyflow. Also, after reading B. K. S. Inyegar's "Tree of Yoga".

The Asanas(physical poses) are just one small element of yoga. Not everyone desires the same thing from yoga.

Yoga is very personal. Each of us should have our own yoga. Yes, go to yoga class and find the poses or sequences that best fulfills your "personal needs", get good instruction and then develop "your yoga" based on your "fear reactivity".

It's all yoga. I don't distinguish, I just do and become.

Yet, my traditional yoga incorporation in my class is for "strength"(core and limb) and for teaching how to be relaxed in a stressful situation. The "Bodyflow" is used primarily for "movement sophistication" which incorporates a variety of attributes and skills. The Pilates is for core activation, yet I do very little in my class now, since discovering Dykhaniye.

I use this variety to keep the body fresh and stimulated. Basically, it keeps the class from getting static and boring. No two classes are every the same. By adding the yoga, bodyflow, pilates and ballet together I have a great deal to draw from. My creativity runs wild, but the integration has to have a purpose and scientific base. People often quite yoga, for boredom.

The goal is to give students a buffet to choose from when they do their "home practice", as they discover their patterns of tension in class.

Bodyflow should always be done before traditional yoga poses.

Many times during Judo class we practice a throw with the Judogi and I'm always thinking "How do I pull it off without a gi". It's the same in Yoga. I take static traditional poses and turn them into biomechanical movements.

Viniyoga is the most dynamic yoga and it has more in common with bodyflow than Ashtanga. Yet, still quite linear.

Remember, BodyFlow and ROSS are "training systems" to "enhance your performance". It fills in between the spaces.

Do your yoga. Take your yoga classes. But fill in the gaps with Warrior Wellness, Bodyflow and C-bells.

Don't allow someone else to define yoga for you. Be your own GURU!

[Garth Sch]

Hi Bob,

You said that you took some Kundalini classes, were you more interested in postures or meditation?

Yoga does have some very cool poses, but with all your rmax training you could work them out by yourself. Just get a good text like Iyengar's Light on Yoga, or David Swenson's Ashtanga Yoga: The Practice Manual.

If your interest is meditation, then find the best instructor possible. You want someone who has achieved the high states of consciousness that meditation can lead you to.

Burn with Fire,
Garth

[bob_stra]

> Hi Bob,

> You said that you took some Kundalini classes, were you more
> interested in postures or meditation?

The kundalini yoga I did had no postures. We sat in chairs!

Now I'm wondering if it was the legit thing.

Anyhow, I'll let this one sit on the back burner. Every few months, my interest is drawn towards yoga. If and when the time is right, I'm sure fate will put me in the right place.

[Garth Sch]

>The kundalini yoga I did had no postures. We sat in chairs!

>Now I'm wondering if it was the legit thing.


Personally I would twist your statement on it's head.

I'll be stepping on a few toes to say this, but I wonder if the instructors who teach Yoga without meditation are the real thing.

Indian Yoga is about achieving liberation in this lifetime. This is is an absolutely massive achievement, similar to finding the Holy Grail in the Western Esoteric Tradition, the philosophers stone in Western Alchemy or the "pill of immortality" in Taoist Alchemy.

Yoga is about achieving absolute stillness of consciousness, that mean no thoughts whatsoever, the ordinary mental consciousness is nuked by the fire of your meditation.

Read stories like "Autobiography of Yogi" by Pramahansa Yogananda or "The Life of Milarepa" translated by Lobsang Lhalungpa if you want to know about real yoga.

It's a shame the western world has taken a spiritual path and diluted it to a few physical exercises.

Burn with Fire,
Garth