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View Full Version : Some Thoughts on Diet or Mainstream Thinking May be Wrong


uprise
01-24-2004, 11:49 AM
Disclaimer: Many people defend their dietary choices as if they were Religion, and I do NOT intend to offend anyone by proposing the results of my dietary research on this forum. I do, however, intend to entertain the idea that mainstream dietary advice is far from truth and to perhaps even make someone out there think about what they are feeding their body/mind complex by way of foods and reconsider their actions. I don't claim to know all of the answers, but I do have a firm foundation to work with having researched said subject extensively for many years. Feel free to post any feedback/questions/disagreements or email me at mjdesaro@scatcat.fhsu.edu if you choose not to post.
End Disclaimer

There has been a lot of talk about finding the "ideal" diet here for various reasons such as weight loss, increased limit strength, increased endurance, etc. What you see is a hodge-podge of answers supporting various dietary systems that all claim to be the "best" diet for humans. I intend to share with you all the results of my research in this field.

Supplements
Lets just get this one out of the way right off the starting line. 99.9% of supplements are not beneficial and are actually harmful to the human body. I will provide one example to illustrate this point, although this same framework can be used to show the ineffectiveness of any commercially available vitamin. Vitamin C will be out test subject due to it being one of the most publicized vitamins available. Generally, the term vitamin C refers to ascorbic acid, which is the fully reduced form of the vitamin. Ascorbic acid is a chemically manufactured, isolated fraction of the true vitamin C. In actuality, Ascorbic Acid is essentially an antioxidant "wrapper" for the rest of the vitamin C complex. The vitamin C complex consists of Ascorbic Acid, Ascorbigen, Bioflavonoid Complexes, Tyrosinase, P, K, and J factors and more than likely various other components not yet identified. So, when you ingest vitamin C tablets, your body has to leach from its own tissue all of the rest of the C complex in order to make a usable product.

Essentially, this framework can be used to show that any commercially available vitamins or antioxidants are in fact useless in the long run. Taking these denatured vitamins can at times produce a beneficial result at the expense of long term leeching of co-factors from tissues and organs. (see The Real Truth About Vitamins & Antioxidants by Judith DeCava)

Vegetables
The media and just about any source of dietary information will all unanimously say that veggies are a healthy and required aspect of any diet. It is said that vegetables are high in such-and-such vitamin and this-or-that antioxidant. While this is without a shadow of a doubt true, the problem lies in the digestion and assimalation of such foods. We, as humans, lack the proper digestive system to break down and utilize the nutrients contained in vegetables. Animals that eat veggies generally have an efficient way of digesting them, such as ruminants and their four stomachs. Man has but one stomach and has a very difficult time digesting such foodstuffs. If one so desires to reap the benefits of vegetables, the only way to do so with any sort of efficiency is to rid the vegetable of its cell wall. We lack the ability to break down these cell walls, which is why vegetables are only about 15-35% utilized by our bodies. The only known way to extract the nutrients is to drink fresh-pressed vegetable juices without the pulp.

So, What in the World do I eat?
(If anyone has read this far, I will be both shocked and surprised. I will cut this short after this section for fear of making this post WAY too long.) The Citric Acid Cycle accounts for the majority of our bodies usable energy. The breakdown for the starting products of the Citric Acid Cycle is 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs. This is the optimal breakdown of what one should eat in order to produce energy with minimal by-products. This brings us to one other way to get the nutrients in vegetables in a useable form: eat the flesh of an animal that can readily digest the vegetalbes. Meat. We digest and assimilate meat readily and easily. A man can not only survive, but thrive on meat alone. (see Vilhjalmur Stefansson's writings and research) Meat contains everything that the body requires for optimal function. We evolved as meat eaters and only started to rely on agriculture when we settled down, overpopulated and consumed most of the animal life around our dwellings. (see Canibals and Kings) Their is ample evidence to illustrate these points from both a historical/anthropological and scientific viewpoint. To take this one step further, it appears that the current diet of man lacks one unspoken aspect. We are told to avoid this one at all costs by mainstream media: Bacteria. There was a time when man ate all of his foodstuffs in its natural, raw fashion. Yes, this included meat and eggs. Our bodies utilize this bacteria for countless "house-cleaning" applications. Bacteria are natures janitors both inside and out of the body. We have developed a working relationship with these "pathogens". I am not suggesting that you eat only meat and eat it only raw. While this would be an optimal diet, the fact is that we live in a social world, so 100% raw meat diets generally are difficult to stick to. I am suggesting that everyone try raw meat and eggs and to eat it as often as possible in order to take advantage of our symbiotic relationship with bacteria and to allow your body the chance to have undenatured, unharmed-by-heat food.

This quick synopsis of diet is a small fraction of what my research has turned up over the years. If anyone has any questions or comments feel free to drop me a line.

humilispuer
01-24-2004, 12:08 PM
If I killed all my own meat and ate it on the spot - raw would be feasible. However, with modern processing/handling techniques, there is no way I will get near raw meat. I do consume raw organic eggs, though this is as far as I will go.

I understand where you are coming from. I had the least digestive difficulty and felt excellent when I went all meat for a while. At this point, that approach is far too extreme for ME.

It would truly be sad if someone on this civilized board were to ridicule you for your beliefs, thoughts. Most people are not quick to point the finger and are very open to new ideas (one of the reasons I love this board so much).

On a side note: I must say that your research seems extremely similar to Dr. Ellis's. Furthermore, the books you cite are the books that the good doctor suggests to those looking for solid information on nutritional anthropology. Is one of your sources of information Dr. Ellis and or his book? Just curious.

-Jonathon

uprise
01-24-2004, 12:43 PM
Hello Jonathan,

If I killed all my own meat and ate it on the spot - raw would be feasible. However, with modern processing/handling techniques, there is no way I will get near raw meat. I do consume raw organic eggs, though this is as far as I will go.

Its good to hear that you are eating some raw eggs. Out of curiosity, what is it that you fear about the processing/handling techniques of meat? I have been eating raw chicken, fish, beef, bison, lamb and pork for well over 3 years with no ill effects.

Is one of your sources of information Dr. Ellis and or his book? Just curious.

I have not had a chance read Dr. Ellis' book yet though I have been in contact with him in the past. His methods seem to be absolutely incredible for weight loss/management, but I feel they are lacking in health maintanence and disease prevention. He and I share many of the same ideas and thinking except for the use of raw foods.

humilispuer
01-24-2004, 02:39 PM
Ellis does have some solid information. I have a copy of his book.

Not really sure what exactly I am scared of when it comes to raw meat and safety. I suppose, in a way, it's one of those things that has sort of been "branded" into me. The meat that you do eat Raw; is it organic and free range?

-Jonathon

James Boelter
01-25-2004, 01:43 AM
Very interesting and informative post!

Did you ever read the book "Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival" by Wiley and Formby? They make many of the same points you do, and add the factor of proper sleep cycles into the mix. They have some very challenging ideas and suggestions; it's just too bad that the book wasn't properly editted down into a format that made it more accessible to the majority of the lay and medical public. (I've loaned my copy of the book to four different friends and acquaintances - all of them have returned it to me after a cursory skimming because the science sections were too dense and the commentary sections were too combative and contentious).

I plan to eventually get the 'lite' edition of the Ellis book, since I think he has some valid points to make - too bad his exercise ideas are so stone age compared to what you can find with Coach Sonnon or Pavel. (And he didn't acquit himself especially well in the earlier days of the Dragondoor forum, which made me wonder what his problem was).

uprise
01-25-2004, 01:43 AM
The meat that you do eat Raw; is it organic and free range?

While I would prefer to eat grass-fed and organic meats, at this time I am eating about 75% commercial meats for financial reasons. As soon as all is cleared up financially, I intend to go back to organic and grass-fed meats exclusively again.

01-25-2004, 05:16 AM
Interesting and well presented post - not that I agree.

I think you will find that when you present things on this forum, in that way, you may get a discussion but probably not a turf war.

I think we would all be interested in a little more ifndo on the citric acid cycle and the research behind your claim of it's dominance of the energy production in the body.

uprise
01-25-2004, 10:37 AM
James:

I have not yet read "Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar, and Survival", but I am always looking for a good read, so I will more than likely check it out.

I totally agree about Ellis' excersice ideas being in the past. The man does know Biochemistry though, and he brings some amazing information to us all, as long as you have an open mind.

Bill:

I would love to give you some more information on the Citric Acid Cycle and the biochemisty of the situation....however, you will have to give me a bit of time on that. I am right now in the process of moving. I have to have all of my life moved out by tonight, and I will not have Internet access for a little bit. When I do, I will post. Until then, have a great day!

Shaf
01-26-2004, 12:21 PM
Linus Pauline, who "discovered" vitamin c, and who lived to a ripe old age of 89 or so, said to save your money and take the synthetic stuff.

He practiced what he preached, generally taking 20-30 grams of synthetic vitamin c for much of his life.

Shaf

JasonE
01-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Linus Pauline, shortly after he helped start the popularization of synthetic Vitamin C, also changed his position somewhat by saying that the intake of Bioflavonoids was at least as importance as taking the vitamin itself. This is because bioflavonoids positively impact the uptake of Vitamin C.

I take Vitamin C with Bioflavonoids when I take it at all. Twin Labs has an excellent product of this sort.

Uprise -

I am aware that most supplements are near worthless due to the fillers and various manufacturing processes used for many, and due to the material of the containers they are distributed in.

However, I have had extremely positive results with some manufacturers that make what I consider a superior product. You cite the difficulties of extracting various nutrients from vegetables, so wouldn't taking a high-quality supplement be better than nothing?

Also, I've spent some time examining the Blood Type diets, and they indicate that your blood type has a major impact on what will work best for you. They even maintain that A types are better served by more grains and vegetables and less meat. Have you also looked at these approaches?

Thanks, I'm looking forward to your responses!