RMAXing Limalama

[HereBeADragon]

I'm very glad there is now a secion where we can explore such topics as style renovation. I've been trying to find a good way to post my topic in here since the first day this section opened. I found myself stuck on a chicken or the egg question. Is it my art that is becoming RMAX powered or is it me? I have not changed any significant applications or techniques in Limalama I see no need to. What has changes is
a) Since adopting a health first system of training my ability to access my skill sets has improved.
b) Because of the study of biomechanics that is basicly built into the system of CST and Flowfighting I have become more aware of why things are done and how they work.
c) I have gained a new vocabulary of understanding behind my art.
d) Last but not least I've gained a better more productive method of practicing my skill sets, attributes and strategies.

Two of the most valuable resourses I've had on this journey has been the 3DPP book and coach Jones Going Ballistic. There is no way to calculate the benefits and insights the other RMAX materials I own have helped me (I've got a pretty nice collection going) but these two titles always stand out in my mind. the 3DPP gave me an understanding of drill progression and training structure light years ahead of where I was. Going Ballistic filled in so many holes I had not worked out and also reinforced the concepts I had been succesfull with. Specificly the use of the triangle in striking. I had figured this tool out as a throwing and unbalancing tool years ago but was at a road block about taking it to the striking game. I saw its use and potential application but could not bridge the gap.

This is a basic rundown of how I've began to integrate RMAX into my training and practice. I'm hoping to post some videos of my practice as examples of where I'm taking my art and more importantly myself. I hope other will as well. Those brave individuals who have already made their RMAXing posts (wrestling and silat) have been very inspiring and I always look forward to new content from them.

[Charlie]

That's sounds cool Brian! I'm looking forward to seeing those video clips of your practice & any other info on Limalama; its completely unheard of in my parts. Cheers, C.

[HereBeADragon]

Limalama is unheard of in most places. It is the most enjoyable and the most frustrating thing to teach. No one knows what it is so its hard as hell to get people to try it.

[Trebor]

Don't know if these are accurate representations of Lima Lama - but here goes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odforQwymr0

[HereBeADragon]

Those guys are Limalama but judging by their movement they are probably one of the schools down in Mexico. Its not a very accurate representation of Limalama. I'm editing some footage now and I'll have it up very soon.

[HereBeADragon]

So I've been thinking of a new approach to iron hand training. I've identified some of the key factors to safe and healthy training of the iron palm.

1. Joint Care, joints of the fingers and wrists must be taken care of with the proper use of Jaou and regular joint mobility exercises to aid recovery and lubricate the joints.

2. Sinew Care, the sinews of the hands must also be strengthened if the hand is to safely develop. Jaous help with the ligaments and tendons as do joint mobility exercises. In addition proper grip training must be maintained to allow the sinews to thicken.

3. Skin and Muscle Care, the skin on the hands must be cared for. Lotions and other skin care products should be used. Hands, wrists and forearms should be massaged regularly.

These are some of the points I've identified as important to safely training the iron palm/hand. I've been working sporaticly at iron hand for the last year and I've hit a wall which is what caused me to research these points and seek out a solid training plan. I need to discuss some training methods with my teacher to find the best one to fit in with my circumstances as for the approach I am using an RMAX frame work for the training. As I am planning to work a high volume of century cycles this coming year and have been swinging my clubs actively for some time now my grip strength is already strong and will be steadily improving. In addition to that I will be using some supplementary exercises to help strengthen the sinews further.

My joint health is a high priority with this type of training. I keep a regular practice of Intu-Flow and have several joint care tools for my hands that I use for active recovery. I will be doing a joint health series for my wrists and fingers before and after each session in addition to my regular practice.

I have adequate skin care products and will be regularly practicing my Hilot on my forearms, wrists and fingers during my training. I also will be using a high quality dit da jaou to aid in my training and in the care of my hands.

Now that I have the finer points ironed out on to the actual program. Since I've grown so interested in the simple yet incredible prostpects of density or century training I plan to use this template in my iron hand practice. I will start my practice with the basic century cycle program design of 35 sets of 3 in 35 minutes and work up to the 100 rep mark. I will then cycle back down and begin a new cycle once I have went all the way up and back down the century. I will devise a different routine for the supplementary exercises but will include them in my regular practice. This is a rough idea of where I am going with my training at the moment. I want to build the iron hand but I have every intention of doing it safely and with a health first approach. It may take a bit longer like this than it would with other methods but this type of training should not be rushed and in the long term I feel this will be a superior approach.

[wildman]

will you be running this density cycle daily.

[KD Jones]

... I'm editing some footage now and I'll have it up very soon.

Really looking forward to seeing this, Brian! It's pretty much invisible in my area...

[HereBeADragon]

wildman I will probably be running my training on a daily or every other day program. The exact details I am not 100% sure on yet.

KD I'm looking forward to having them up soon too. Just a matter of getting enough time to sit down and do it. I've been so busy since I started teaching again. Between college, teaching and training (I travel 80 miles to work with my teacher and thats not the round trip number) I have not spent an entire day home once. I will try to have something up soon though.

[wildman]

tossing around the idea of cycling the training everyday or everyother day. when i was introduced to basic iron body training i was destroyed every day. i had to sleep for 10 hours a night. thats why i was tossing around the 4x7 idea on your other thread. not the idea of the 4 excercises in increasing the complexity but the idea of cycling the intensity of the work days. maybe it may keep you a more functioning individual than i was. having a medium, heavy, no intensity, and low intensity cycle. perhaps determined by the overall count of strikes per day to measure the intenisty.

medium (60% of target strikes)
heavy (100% of target strikes)
no intesnisty (lots of hand recovery excercises)
light (30? of target strikes)

maybe this would allow for more recovery. i don't know. it's just an idea. I just see 4x7 applying to everything from language acquision to iron palm.

i think its a very good idea to run your training as a density cycle

[HereBeADragon]

wildman that is very much along the lines of what I am going for. I'm hoping that by making use of some of the CST principles I can make my iron palm training more efficient, effective and maybe a little less painful. There are a lot of very impressive and genious training ideas in the traditional martial arts but there has not been a lot of modern science applied to these fields. A stone is not magical and neither is an orange or an apple or a coconut for that matter (a few different items used in different iron palm training systems). So I'm trying to drag the old school kicking and screaming into the modern world I suppose.

[HereBeADragon]

wanted to drop in a little update. I've been working with the protocal coach Jones outlined in his heavy bag and speed bag articles and wow what a difference. I've been able to frame this practice within my Limalama skill sets and I am making hugh improvements in my footwork and positioning. I'm getting faster and hitting harder. I've also been making use of the interval timer at my school. I set it up for 1 1/2 minute rounds with a high/low interval every 30 seconds and 30 seconds rest between rounds. I work mobility drills and lua hand movements during the high intensity intervals and work a specific skill set in the low intensity intervals. I do this for about half an hour and have had no trouble being breathed by my movements and so I never seen to lose my breath when I practice.

Also last night I devised a bag drill that I though others might want to try. I came up with it as a way to make the bag put you under greater pressure and drill more aggresive defense. It starts out simply hitting the bag as outlined in coach Jones heavy bag article. Get it swinging and once its moving blast it. Just snap out hard shots repeatedly making the bag change its angle. As your doing this 2 things will happen. One is the bag will swing more wildly and two you will have to move with it. Use this wild swing as a simulated advancing, retreating and circling opponent. Move around it without letting the bag get behind you. Move in on it and retreat from it. Cover, weave, slip, roll, etc. out of its way and keep on hitting it as you go. You want to do two things above all with the bag. Keep it infront of you and hit it while keeping your goard. Its a very intense drill and gives the feeling of a live opponent. I'll try to post a video of this to give a better idea of what I'm talking about.

[wildman]

how have you framed it for limalama. i'm trying to adapt my long fist and could use some ideas. i was thinking it would be easy to adapt the ideas to wooden dummy (but i no longer have access to one)

interested to hear. i like the way you think.

[wildman]

i guess that's not very clear.

how are you organizing the hand techniques. are you using limalama kinetic chains. are u incorporating open hand techniques. elbows. blocks against the bag?

[HereBeADragon]

I used the progression on the bag as coach Jones suggested only replacing the movements with Limalama. For example with the heavy bag the first step (pardon the pun) is in learning to move around the bag. So I began by doing intervals where I was moving around the bag using my limalama footwork. This consists of 45 shuffle, dragon shuffle, slurring and thumber (videos to come I promise). Using these movements I would work around the bag cutting at 45 degree angles. Dragon shuffle in and out (advancing and retreating) slurr to the outside or thumber to the inside of where my opponents legs would be. While doing this always making sure to move around the bag and keep my guard up. I still have more movements to add such as walk lift, walk through and bicycle walk. Then I'll start in on the advanced movements.

Once all this felt comfortable I starting working the jab (or jolt) as I moved around the bag. This also starts imparting more movement to the bag making it more challenging to move around it. I was sure to work both from a left and right lead and once this was comfortable I started using more strikes as I got more comfortable with the movements. Equally always work on your defense throughout the practice. Keep your guard up and move around the bag as if it were swinging a punch at you. Once you start hitting the bag and it starts swinging you can also start using your defensive and counter offensive movements as well. I for example would use my roller, checking, checkmate and other movements meant to deflect, block or roll the oncoming attacks as the bag swung at me. Last night I devised the drill mentioned in my last post based on this progression. I still have a lot of experimenting to do but its coming along.

Working arts like long fist will probably be a bit more difficult at first. Many of the traditional arts over emphasize linear movement in their forms and this does make if very difficult to work with information gained through forms on a bag. I would suggest starting where I did on the bag. With your footwork or locomotion. Work on the linear and circular movements in your art as they apply to moving in and out on the bag as well as moving to the side and back of it. Once this gets comfortable start experimenting with the striking in your art and see where it goes from there. As for the speed bag start from your guard and work the movements as coach Jones suggests. Once it is comfortable start experimenting with other striking surfaces. Same with the heavy bag. A much more valuable training tool will still be a training partner and the softwork to hardwork continuum. I will get some videos posted of just what it is I am trying to do as soon as I can, been very busy lately. In the meantime maybe coach Jones or one of the other coaches can give you some more ideas. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Also if you can find it I strongly suggest you read Championship Fighting by Jack Dempsey it will give you some great insight and many ideas. Also wrap your hands it is definitly a must and will save you a lot of pain later.

[HereBeADragon]

ok I've gotten a few videos together finally :) These are specificly addressing the heavy bag and speed bag work I was discussing previously. Using the advice given by coach Jones I definitly feel I have made great strides in the quality of my practice.

This first video is of my speed bag practice. Its not as impressive as coach Jones but I've only been using this bag for a few weeks so I am happy with my progress. It may be difficult to see but I am using several different striking surfaces in this. I use the knuckles and bottom of my fist as suggested but I also use finger strikes, palm and back of the hand when hitting the speed bag.
http://media.putfile.com/Speedbag-Work

This series is with the heavy bag. I progress through the three basic drills coach Jones again suggests in his heavy bag article although I make use of my Limalama movements. I have found several weak points in my attacks that I am addressing through the use of these drills they really are both a diagnostic tool and a training device.
http://media.putfile.com/Heavy-Bag-1
http://media.putfile.com/Heavy-Bag-2

This last set is a drill I have began experimenting with as a means of working my defense and counter offensive skills with the bag. The most important aspect of this drill is to engage the bag at all times either by counter attacking it or defending against its advance. Also notice in the first part of the video that my handwraps unroll on me making it a very difficult round but an interesting one. Actually at one point I accidentally tangled my hands together. Much fun!
http://media.putfile.com/aggressive-defense-bag-work

As always comments, questions and advice are welcomed and often needed :D

[Coach Jones]

Brian,

First, let me commend you on posting the clips. It takes a lot to put yourself out there for critique and is the only way to get good, specific feedback via the net.

After watching the clips I have a couple things...

The first is that if you want to skyrocket your performance, the quickest way is baby-steps. Human nature is that we want to start in the middle or preferably at the end of a path. We want to jump ahead to sophistication because it seems like it'll give us faster results. The quickest path is baby-steps.

You have sophisticated the drills but this sophistication has left gaps. These gaps will be difficult to address in a sophisticated drill(s) and must therefore be focused on on a more base level.

Movement is crucial and is overlooked more often than not, but before we can sophisticate movement we need to address foundational mechanics.

Scale down the complexity and focus on developing a good jab, cross and hook. Don't worry whether or not they are the same or similar to your martial art or not. Good strikes are good strikes in that they employ positions of mechanical advantage. Once you can find these positions in strikes such as jabs, crosses and hooks, they'll transfer over to your specific MA strikes (if there's a place for them to).

Scale it down and focus on your connections:

1. Your connection to your body (integration of breathing/structure/movement)
2. Your connection to the ground (no connection no power)
3. Your connection to your target (opponent or bag)

Work every punch with a laser like focus on those connections.

Then, slowly and incrementally add in your movement. Focus on maintaining structure throughout the transitions. This is a process and won't happen instantly just accept that and keep hammering away or better yet shaving off problem areas.

Have a separate time to work on your legs (footwork). Keep the chin down and the hands up, no punches. Work on movement with the performance goals of:

Not crossing your feet/legs - EVER.
When you can move comfortably without crossing and while maintaining good connections with the ground and maintaining your structure focus on moving just enough.

I always tell people that the goal isn't to make the opponent miss, it's to make him JUST miss. The opponent should be thinking "i've got him" just as you smack him in the grill.

A common mistake is to look at getting hit as a failure or mistake. This is very common amongst martial artists. When used to training in an asymetrical fashion, martial artists will tend to start over when they miss a block to begin their technique. In combat sport, you get hit, thrown or choked and it's not the end of the world, it's just another day of competition. What you do with that is the issue.

There are different types of tactics regarding movement. One of the reasons I like working with Coach Wilson so much, is that we have separate styles (though both are based on RMAX principles, concepts and methods).

Coach Wilson is a hunter. One second he's there and the next he's gone. He finds your openings, moves in and capitalizes and then POOF he's gone.

I am more of a nester. I want to be on you like a clinging spider monkey dangling off your neck.

We both use movement efficiently, just in different ways.

Neither of us could be effective, however, without the connections mentioned above and each path requires a slightly different movement pallette.

I only mention this to highlite that the key to both approaches is always and forever maximizing the connections. Without connection Coach Wilson would get in with very little result and I would get put to sleep. Different methods but both of which have the same underlying principles.

As they say, "a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step".

My advice would be to go back and focus on foundational mechanics and tool development.

1. Stand in one place in a good "stance" that is comfortable for you. Work on your jab. Work on your cross. Work on the weight shift on each and the two together. When you have that and you have those connections, move on to the hook.

2. When you have that. Introduce movement. Move into a position of mechanical advantage, throw your shots and move again.

3. When you can do this easily, now sophisticate your movement so that you now move in between shots as well. Focus on moving "just enough".

* Get a tennis ball or preferably go to a pet store and look for one of those dog training things they use to train retrievers. They're oblong canvas (usually). Put that between your chin and chest when you're training. If it hits the floor, do 50 quad hops.

* Keep the hands up - always. From the time you start to the time you stop the hands NEVER drop.

* Also, and this is VERY important. Never...NEVER turn your back on a bag or opponent. Though many systems have moves that suggest this would be a good idea, I can count the number of times i've seen it used effectively on one hand. Most often this will result in a blow to the back of your head or a swipe on the kidneys which will make you curse your training partner or opponent every time you have a call to nature.

You're on the right path. Just need to scale it down and take it back a few steps in order to make some great progress.

[Scott Sonnon]

The degree of depth, genuine concern and coaching mastery comes across in each post. If I only I could have had such amazing coaching a couple decades ago!

Brian, you'd be crazy to not turn this into a private session with Coach Jones. He's only a few hours drive. If I had had this kind of insight within a few hours drive, I doubt that I'd have continued my 8,000 mile commute to my coach as often if at all!

[Chuck Kechter]

Great stuff Brandon!

[KD Jones]

Coach Jones -

Thank you for turning this thread into a certifiable gold mine for anyone willing to read it, and work it.

Brian -

Thank you for opening this up.



Pearls, pearls (I've heard it said before).

Blessings.

[Coach Flanagan]

Brian, you'd be crazy to not turn this into a private session with Coach Jones. He's only a few hours drive
...Just wanted to echo this.

Great post, Brandon!

[HereBeADragon]

first off thanks everyone for your support and suggestions. I hope everyone else will do the same and post clips of their training.

I see what you are saying coach Jones and I will take it under consideration. There is in fact a lot of boxing in Limalama, the founder Grandmaster Tino Tuiolosega was an amazing boxer in the navy and held a record of 135 and 0 with I think 108 of those by knockout, so your advice in this area is definitly of help to me. I will step it down a bit and see what I come up with. As I said before I am finding your advice about bag work to be both sound training advice and a great diagnostic tool. I am seeing many of the weak spots I have as well as how to better address them. Also just the act of filming them is a great help in my training and I urge everyone else to do the same. Even if you are not comfortable with posting them still do it for your own benefit it is a great help.

Coach Sonnon I agree and I do intend to make some time with coach Jones as soon as I can. I had hoped to attend the flowbox seminar but being this time of the year I have very limited funds and will have to catch the next one.

[HereBeADragon]

just wanted to drop a little update. I've taken coach Jones advice and used it as well the his recent articles to review my work and I have found several areas to fix. I have since scaled back and been focusing on only a few areas.

I've been practicing my Jabs, Jolts, Crosses, Hooks and Checks mainly for the last week and a half and have started shoring up my weakpoints. I am still using my footwork in this but I have scaled that down to the trigger step and slurring. Any additional footwork practice I save for a seperate session. I feel I have already made some significant progress in these areas and will continue with the baby steps until I feel these movements are where they need to be. Also I've continued working the speedbag but I am sticking to the advice given in coach Jones speedbag article. I also got the dog training bag and I find it to be a perfect tool for this practice. Anyone who hasn't tried one of these really needs to give it a shot.

One more question to coach Jones. Are you going to be putting out any articles about the double end bag? I really wish I could make the flowbox seminar. I'll just have to make the next one :)

Also I could use some insights into how best to integrate kicking into my bag work and general practice? In Limalama there are 3 main kicks used all low and meant to attack knees, groin or ankle/feet. There are also 3 movements used that are somewhere inbetween kicking and footwork. These are walklift, walkthrough and bicycle. If it helps I can post a clip of the 6 kicks/movements. I mostly work them on a banana bag or simply practice them in the air. I rarely get to work with a partner on these kicks but when I do I really want to make it count. Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Vbrown]

Pardon me, but what's a "jolt"? Just curious....

[HereBeADragon]

Pardon me, but what's a "jolt"? Just curious....

A jolt is a strike that was popular with oldtime boxers. Its based off of a trigger step so that you marry weight and gravity along a power line to strike your opponent, often stunning or knocking him out with just your lead hand. Hmm now where have I heard that before ;) Jack Dempsey used this type of strike a lot to great effect. If you can find a copy Dempsey's Championship Fighting explains this any many other details of the old style boxers. I hope that helps but the best advice I can give is look up that book if you want to learn more about the Jolt. Its availabe online at several different websites.

[Jarlo Ilano]

If I may ask....

Have you ever worked the bag to develop your structure and power?

I noticed that your strikes in your vidclips were relatively light and easy.

Perhaps working a cycle of connecting the earth with your structure would help your fighting. What do you notice when you spar and you connect with your partners? Do you notice a good feeling of solidity?

[HereBeADragon]

If I may ask....

Have you ever worked the bag to develop your structure and power?

I noticed that your strikes in your vidclips were relatively light and easy.

Perhaps working a cycle of connecting the earth with your structure would help your fighting. What do you notice when you spar and you connect with your partners? Do you notice a good feeling of solidity?

I do have some "solidity" issues at the moment. Largely its more a matter of relearning my striking. I've been working on being able to throw strikes from different angles and against a moving target. This has shown me several weak points that I am now addressing. Any ideas or advice you suggest I would be happy to hear.

[HereBeADragon]

I did some experimenting yesterday with my connection to the ground and my hip/waist recruitment. I had this intuitive spark yesterday that I was not recruiting my waist power when throwing strikes. I started off with a through warm up of intu-flow going through the beginner and intermediate levels with an emphasis on recruiting and articulating my hips and waist throughout the practice. I have noticed an odd disconnect going on I have complete and comfortable mobility in my hips but I do not always move them when I should be. I think this has to do with my knee but I cannot put it all together yet. It helped me a lot just focusing on my hips during my intu-flow and I started to feel a more "natural" connection going on.

After this I started with the speedbag with an emphasis on keeping my hands high and shifting my weight from foot to foot. After about 10-15 minutes of speedbag work I took a small break applied some Jow and wrapped my hands. Then I started working the heavy bag. I started right against the bag with my hand being held against my body, think a cocked fist like in karate. From here I threw my hips to strike the bag with my fist. I did this to keep my arm out of my strike as much as possible and force my hips and legs to impart the force instead. Once this was comfortable I stepped bag a few steps and started throwing full punches from a medium range. I definitly felt a better connect with the bag and saw a difference in how the bag reacted to my strikes.

After I felt that my hips were being more correctly recruited I began to focus on my feet. I experimented with different placements and configurations. I started sinking down more into my strikes and trying to "snap down" my foot when I threw a strike.

During this practice I started experimenting with some complex training to recruit my waist and hips. I got out my kettlebells, did not have my clubbells with me, and started working interval rounds of 2 arm swings, side deadlifts and full contact twists with jabs, crosses and jolts. I liked this practice and I've got a few clubbell routines I plan to try with this.

All and all I think this was a productive practice session and I have identified a few problems, fixed a few and given myself some other things to work on.

[KD Jones]

I have noticed an odd disconnect going on I have complete and comfortable mobility in my hips but I do not always move them when I should be. I think this has to do with my knee but I cannot put it all together yet.

I was trying some side swings with a 25 this weekend to work this issue. The short story is that I don't think that there's a better diagnostic/awareness tool for this kind of thing than a real, live clubbell.

The very slightly longer story is that I seem to have been, for lack of better terminology, "leaking power from the knee," specifically on the right. (Odd, I didn't, until just this moment, add in that the right knee is 'loose,' and gives out laterally...)

In my case, part of the problem seems to have been focusing too specifically on "moving the hip" for the snap, rather than trying to gradually build to a point of awareness of all 7 key component. This is counter to my nature, by history. I like to find one problem, hurt, kill and eviscerate it with extreme prejudice, and then go hunting for the next one...

It may not have anything at all to do with what you're explaining here, but it seems that the main lesson for me was that CST just won't work that way. I'm going to have to learn to increase a more wholistic approach and awareness, and rather than powering up, step back to a level of performance that allows me to work that, a bit at a time, moment-by-moment where necessary.

My apologies if I am blathering on something completely unrelated... but I thought I saw a similarity here.

Blessings.

[KD Jones]

I should add: my understanding of my own mechanics is (at this point and without modesty) certain to be elementary at best, and misleading at worst.

corrections and comments from coaches will be required...

[Coach Billew]

Brian,

What do you mean by snapping your foot down when striking? I am just having a hard time visualizing.


full contact twists with jabs, crosses and jolts.

Also will you describe this exercise for me.

[HereBeADragon]

When I say snapping down my foot I mean bringing the heel to the floor with a snap. Lets say you are on the balls of your feet and you throw a punch. Before you land the strike snap your foot down from that ball of foot position. I hope that helps clear up what I was trying to describe.

The full contact twist is a movement I learned from Pavels Bullet Proof Abs book. I believe if you google Full Contact Twist there are a few aticles on it with pictures floating around. My version of it uses a kettlebell. I start with the kettlebell on the outside of my left foot I then grab the handle with both hands and swing the bell up from that position to about chest high and down to the outside of my right foot. Coach Jones has a great movement similar to this in his going Ballistic Book.

[KD Jones]

Regarding the "full contact twists"...
You might want to check on the kinetic chain on that one. I think: The standard "russian twist" emphasises forward work, the barbell "full contact twist" takes out some of the foward work, and emphasises the rotation.
By doing it with a kettlebell, I'd think you're pulling the work toward the back, making it a very different exercise. I was trying to imagine what the effect might be, and the only picture I could pull up was Joe Frazier doing uppercuts...
I am not not not not a boxer, and this is all painfully theoretical, but it strikes me that the use of the kettlebell for this exercise might be counterproductive for the intended effect. (And maybe a little dangerous in the back?)

???

[Coach Billew]

Brian,

I am not the expert that Coach Jones is, but having watched your videos. I would say rather than concentrating on putting the foot down, which implies that you are stepping on each strike or at the very least up on your toes. Try finding a nice rooted position from which to strike, and work snapping your same side hip into the strike. Try it not moving around. Just my two cents, but it may help.

Thanks for the exercise description. What I was trying to understand was how that fit in with the jabs, crosses, and jolts?

[HereBeADragon]

KD you are right useing a kettlebell does make it a different exercise. Mainly the difference is that unlike the barbell version of the full contact twist you do not pause at the top of the movement but ark through from one side to the other.

Coach Billew when I am snapping my foot down it is from a stationary position. Its not so much for moving around but its meant to be a weight shifting movement. As for the twist I was using a training method I had experimented with a few years ago called complex training. The idea is to better recruit my hips into my strikes so first I perform a movement that works the muscles of my waist and legs in a twisting movement and then I immediately throw my strikes to the bag having "primed" my waist and better recruiting the muscles into the movement.

[KD Jones]

I meant the difference in effect, rather than the difference in practice. There are, as I understand it, a number of variations to the "full contact twist," aka "landmine," sometimes aka other odd names. Different foot positions, pause, no pause.

The point is that it sounds like the kettlebell causes this to become a bit of a "haymaker" exercise, or perhaps something more related to very non-CST "power" wrestling throws. It appears to me: The kettlebell starts low, apparently far beyond where the chain related to punching lives. During the arc, it requires some resistance backward to stay upright. And the nature of the "braking" at the far end may add some odd neurological artifacts to the action primarily intended, which is, I believe, the rotation.

It strikes me that Clubbell side swings, and given enough efficiency in other aspects to require a need for tons more "stink" (thanks for the term, Coach Jones), maybe something like the "Lawnmower" progression from one of the "Sonnon Day" vids...

Also, I'm not certain I understand (which isn't uncommon) what the unifying principle is here, in terms of CST... there SEEM to be a LOT of different approaches being thrown into the mix...

Just thoughts.

[Coach Billew]

Brian,

I am going to agree with KD about the side swings. They will also prime the hip recruitment I am advocating with the strikes. You will get a lot more power generation from hip recruitment than you will from trying to drive your foot into the ground. If you can start from a stable structure, and then use the hip recruitment you gain from working on the side swings.

[HereBeADragon]

I plan to try the side swings along with a few movements from Going Ballistic. Note I said I used the kettlebells and kettlebell movements because I did not have my clubs with me at the time. Also the snap down type movement I used is a weight shifting movement. Its not so much about driving my foot into the ground as it is about an explosive shift of my body weight into my target. Thanks for the input helps keep me on my toes ;) KD you are right there are a lot of things in the mix here. Its a matter of working with CST principles, the movements, concepts and skill sets of my art and my own back ground. Trying to consolidate and unify all that gets a little messy sometimes.

[HereBeADragon]

Little update on my practice. I've been focusing my bag work specificly on power generation and not so much on locomotion. I've been paying specific attention to leg drive in my striking and I'm seeing a lot of improvement. I'll try to post a video in the next week or so.

[HereBeADragon]

Just wanted to drop an update on my practice. I've been keeping it simple and focusing on my root while trying to transfer power along my strikes with as little "leak" as possible. I've seen a lot of improvement as has my teacher. I'm beginning to add locamotion back into my striking but I'm taking it much slower. I've also been taking some extra time to perfect my knife work as well. Mostly I've been focusing on my butterfly disarms (not butterfly knife) and on how best to receive the blade. Lastly I've been trying to perfect my weight shifting. I've been working mostly with the Figure 8s of Limalama to perfect this but I've seen it transfering along the Browns and other movements such as checking and its making me frustratingly hard to hit :D I'll try to expand on this and post a couple clips soon.