Inmate Exercise Program

[BmCoomes]

Some background, I work with the Grant County Sheriff's Office Corrections Division. I was asked to help to put an inmate exercise program that needs no equipment.

Instantly I though of RMAX!

So in hand I'm looking for input from the tribe on this.

I was thinking along the lines of the flow fit formula but the selection of exercises I'm not to sure about.

I like the Golden three of CST (Quad Squat, Trinity Squat, and Spinal Rock)
But with the spinal rock you need some padding and our floor are bare concrete.

Plus it needs to be able to transmit the information by poster or like means.

[Coach Jones]

Actually you can easily get by doing a spinal rock without padding...if you do it right. The concrete floor would just speed up the learning process.;)

[BmCoomes]

Yes true, but I don't think that instant biofeedback would stand up in court.

[Coach Jones]

True. People might have "questions" about that.:D

[BmCoomes]

Yes, but what would be a replacment?

there are extensions from the quad sqaut that activate the core also. but I'm tring to get six to ten exercises then the real fun starts.

[Coach Jones]

Well, there are quite a few things that could be used. The bigger issue here, however is who is going to be teaching CST here?

Only a CST Instructor with current certification should be teaching CST in part or in whole.

Have you signed up for Kappa? Were you planning on bringing in a CST instructor?

[BmCoomes]

That one of the hurdles thats needing to be addressed.

I'm sure I can get an instructor in but over all the medium would be posters or the like.

[Coach Jones]

There are a couple ways you could go about resolving the issue. You could obtain certification, or bring in a CST. There are a few just a stones throw from you.

Any CST peripherals must be sanctioned by RMAX. It shouldn't be any problem since you have some CSTs right in your area.

[BmCoomes]

As much I would love to get my certification, I have to much on my plate at this time. Getting my certification is a long term goal at this time.

I would like to get some CST here.

[wildman]

do you really want to create rmaxpowered inmates.

i am assuming these inmates are there for the awhile for breaking some major law.

[Coach Jones]

Mark, good point, LOL. May inspire some of the guards to step their game up as well.;)

Brent,

Check out the CST instructor locator. There are several CSTs right in your neck of the woods.

[BmCoomes]

Yes I would not like rmax powered inmates but there doing stuff already and this will wake up some of the gaurds to rmax too.

and mostly the rmax program would be for the Work Release Facility.

I'll look around an see you around thanks Coach.

[Coach Bentz]

The question that immediately came to my mind when i read this thread was this:

Are we sure we're going to just be creating RMAX powered inmates by doing this? Or, is there a potential of doing something more interesting? Flowfit is a physical program that has carryover to the psychological.

Knowing what effect that program had for me over a prolonged period, I wonder if they start working on all six degrees of freedom (working on mobility in them while improving conditioning) and repeatedly approaching and crossing the NIE barrier, what sort of rehabilitative benefits can an inmate derive beyond the apparent need to move around?

Would a yoga mat provide enough cushion against a hard floor to satisfy those concerned about spinal rocks?

I'm over in Seattle, Brent. If you're serious about going forward with this, please feel free to PM me.

Brian

[BmCoomes]

Yes, I agree that the overall effect in most people will be rehaliitative that is the group this is targeted for.

Yes, I do think a yoga mat would work.
I PM'd you about moving forward.

[joelsey]

Brent:L

There's so much that we can do! There's not only IntuFlow, but we can look into Forward Pressure and FlowFit as well. I'd like to help out however I can.

As a side note, would any of the CO's or Deputies be interested in training? We may want to look into getting so sort of monthly "check-in" for the Deputies/CO's. There are quite a few Instructor's Washington, and you amy want to think about doing something for yourself as well.

I'm definitely interested in helping out. I can coordiante with Brian so that many hands make the work light!

Let me know.

Smiling.....

[James Boelter]

I'm not an RMAX certified CST trainer, but I'd like to interject a thought or two. I'm not intending to deprive the people who've gone to the effort and expense of getting certified in CST of potential income, but...we need to be clear about the level of instruction being offered in a program like this and the expectations (and needs) of the intended audience.

The exercise program you want to implement could be thought of as being "derived" from CST but not "sanctioned" by CST. If you're just a guy standing in front of a bunch of other guys, saying,in essence, "I saw these exercises on a web site/DVD/book" or whatever, and don't claim to be an official CST certified trainer, I can't see the problem. I don't think there would be any confusion about whether RMAX/CST had sanctioned the program...any more than you needed (famous track and field guru) Bill Bowerman's official blessing to pull on a pair of running shoes and jog around a track, or Charlie Francis's certification to run wind sprints.

Similarly, I've taken Wild Goose Qigong lessons from a teacher in Chicago who is not a lineage disciple of the official Grandmaster of the system. He never claimed to be one, either...only that he'd spent years practicing the system, studied with some of its "official" masters, and could teach you how to get started yourself and derive great benefit.

The same thing applies to exercise posters. Essentially you say, "here's some exercises you can do in the space you've got, and here's where you can go to learn more". If this isn't a valid concept, and the material can only be taught by CST certified instructors, then really, RMAX shouldn't be offering its materials to the general public, and they should ONLY be available at CST sanctioned events.


Not trying to start an argument here, I'm just saying that IMO making RMAX info available via 'uncertified' instructors (actually "demonstrators") isn't a threat to the brand name, and might in fact INCREASE CST exposure and influence as more people hear about it.

[Fudog]

As a CO myself this whole thing strikes me as a bad idea. I'm guessing an exercise routine without weights stems from most people in the public not thinking it is such a great idea to give convicted felons access to weights so that they get stronger while incarcerated or something along those lines. Don't get me wrong, your compassion and concern for inmates, who are our fellow human beings, most of whom have a good chance at rehabilitation, is commendable. That being said let's put this in perspective.

There are probably legal issues driving your departments desire for an exercise program for inmates. Simply put if they take away the weights and don't replace it with something they will get sued. While inmate safety and well being is a big part of a correction officer's job so is protecting the public and your fellow officers and staff. Just keep in mind whether what you are doing also satisfies that aspect of your responsibilities.

The thing I find most distasteful about this thread, as a corrections officer is the tongue in cheek "joke" of Co's having to step it up to match this new found health of inmates. I find it hard to see how anyone who has spent a day supervising a housing unit could find this even slightly humorous. This is a potentially dangerous, stressful environment. This is not a UFC cage match up we'd "like to see".

Obviously I don't want to tell you what to do or how to think. I really do appreciate the care you feel for the inmates and your desire to affect positive change for them. I just wanted to run some thoughts by you. Personally I wouldn't go quite this far any more than I would teach close quarter combat, or cell extraction defense, or pole vaulting for inmates. Perspective, mission, balance.

Thank you for letting me voice my opinion here. As someone who knows what you do for a living I have nothing but the utmost gratitude and respect for what you do, hands down! Whatever you do , good luck with it and above all much respect.

Sincerely,
Edward Sloan

[Coach Jones]

Since it was my comment on the COs "stepping up", allow me to appologize if I offended anyone. It wasn't my intent. The comment was intended to be a lighthearted prodding and nothing more. You're not going to create super inmates with a few CST exercises for their health.

When I said that maybe the COs would have to step it up a bit was meant to suggest that maybe introducing them to CST as well might be a good idea. If the concern or worry is that by allowing the inmates to exercise a bit that the COs would have a tougher time controlling them, I would ask, why would that be?

Could that problem be avoided by instituting a better quality of physical training for the staff?

Again, my joke wasn't intended to be offensive, only to lightheartedly suggest that if the worry would be the inmates being difficult to deal with because of their exercise regiment, then maybe a more sophisticated exercise regiment should be instituted for the COs.

[BmCoomes]

Joel,
Yes there would be CO's and Deputies that would train, like our CRT team. I would love to get you guys out here.

Edward,
First this is liabilty driven, in that we do not have any exercise equipment or program in place so why not start with the best? Second I don't think Coach Jones realy mean any thing by that joke but he realy is not far from the mark with my department as a whole. The department would beneft leaps and bounds with any of Coach Sonnon's work. I know that your intent is one of concern to shed light on this line of work is not one like UFC. I share your gratitude and respect. This is a way I can get CST in to my department and do some real good not only for inmates but for officers too. I thank you for your honesty and comment please keep them coming.

[BmCoomes]

Joel,
Second note the more the marry. Brian has my email and number I love to get you guys out here.

[admin]

I'm not an RMAX certified CST trainer, but I'd like to interject a thought or two. I'm not intending to deprive the people who've gone to the effort and expense of getting certified in CST of potential income, but...we need to be clear about the level of instruction being offered in a program like this and the expectations (and needs) of the intended audience.

The exercise program you want to implement could be thought of as being "derived" from CST but not "sanctioned" by CST. If you're just a guy standing in front of a bunch of other guys, saying,in essence, "I saw these exercises on a web site/DVD/book" or whatever, and don't claim to be an official CST certified trainer, I can't see the problem. I don't think there would be any confusion about whether RMAX/CST had sanctioned the program...any more than you needed (famous track and field guru) Bill Bowerman's official blessing to pull on a pair of running shoes and jog around a track, or Charlie Francis's certification to run wind sprints.

Similarly, I've taken Wild Goose Qigong lessons from a teacher in Chicago who is not a lineage disciple of the official Grandmaster of the system. He never claimed to be one, either...only that he'd spent years practicing the system, studied with some of its "official" masters, and could teach you how to get started yourself and derive great benefit.

The same thing applies to exercise posters. Essentially you say, "here's some exercises you can do in the space you've got, and here's where you can go to learn more". If this isn't a valid concept, and the material can only be taught by CST certified instructors, then really, RMAX shouldn't be offering its materials to the general public, and they should ONLY be available at CST sanctioned events.


Not trying to start an argument here, I'm just saying that IMO making RMAX info available via 'uncertified' instructors (actually "demonstrators") isn't a threat to the brand name, and might in fact INCREASE CST exposure and influence as more people hear about it.

This is very logical and reasonable. However, law precedence states that even with the above disclaimer by "demonstrators" if host/designer company does not remind consumer that they are not qualified to teach others, liability for injuries resolving from improper teaching has fallen upon host/designer. Host/designer company is responsible for reminding consumer of this in "80% of the cases brought to its attention."

RMAX faculty coaches have been instructed of company policy by adminstration that "to be safe" in all cases where one sees casual uncertified individual purporting to teach others RMAX materials that "only qualified individuals may do so."

We hope that this policy makes sense to others. We would hate for everyone to lose RMAX just because someone sued the coffee bean makers because they spilt hot coffee on their crotch and got into car accident.

[BmCoomes]

I totaly understand that and in that light it's better for me to have CST instructors come in.

thank you

[Fudog]

How I view Coach Sonnon's work and that of RMAX does have a bit to do with why I do not think it is the best program for inmates. It is my opinion, on the other hand, that training officers in RMAX would be awesome. There is a difference and again it is reflected on how I see RMAX programs.

If I'm not mistaken RMAX programs are, if not martial in nature, martial in their roots. I'm aware this is probably a loaded, contestable notion however if you look at things plainly it is not far fetched. I do not want to get bogged down on this point so I'm prepared to let the chips fall where they may regarding it. What is relevant to me in this context is that this training is advanced both as a physical culture, mind set, and strategy. If you do not agree with me on this point indulge me in the following scenario:

An inmate who has been doing RMAX workouts while serving five years for aggravated assault gets out and, unfortunately, within a matter of months he assaults a woman in a parking lot. Now, put logic aside for a minute and keep in mind that "the law is not logical it is legal." An attorney looking to sue the state or Feds,representing the victim or possibly even the assailant, looks up the RMAX web site and puts together a case(not against RMAX but the State). What kind of conclusions do you think they could draw? Irregardless of what your personally ideas are ponder this honestly if you would. What might a jury think?

I think a better program for inmates would be one that would satisfy health needs and come from some strictly medical standpoint like one that would be used to determine a "healthy" diet. The State's responsibility toward each and every human being is to safeguard their health and safety. You could not find a stronger proponent of this than myself. However, a change or benefit of a program such as RMAX can be eluded to but must come as a choice made by the individual.It is the "next level" . Again, I think very highly of this material based on certain elements to time consuming to get into here.

Training officers in some RMAX style training would be incredible . If nothing else officers should be made aware of this training if it is practiced by inmates. They should be made to understand the underlying concepts. Please don't make me elaborate on what I'm eluding to. I'm sure whether you agree with me or not you know what I'm referring to.

Perhaps I am looking at this wrong. You could be on the precipice of something good. It's hard sometimes in this business to see the big picture and that is citizens who become inmates re becoming citizens and hopefully staying that way. What ever you decide keep me posted.

Sincerely,
Edward Sloan

[BmCoomes]

I will side with you on that it is martial in roots. But as far as libilty goes what would never stand if it did then every dojo, marital art school in the US would be nexted in the sue happy people we live with to day. The program is in the format of health and fitness not martial arts.

[joelsey]

Edward:

Exploration and removal of fear/reactivity can be a powerful tool, and can bring about a range of emotional responses. I know in my own journey, exploration of limitation on mobility have brought back past memories and injuries, and once confronted and resolved, allowed me physical movement and emotional growth.

I don't believe Brent is asking about Flow Fighting. He is looking for an exercise program for incarcerated individuals, and if combinations of IntuFlow, FlowFit, Prasara and Forward Pressure can fit the bill, why not use them.

In my post to Brent, I suggested training the officers as well. Even if they can't make every session or class, learing a few movements and incorporating them into a home practice may have positive results. Having several family members as LEOs, I know the stress they are under and the effects it can have in their personal lives. RMAX could provide an outlet for the stresses, both physical and emotional, and help them deal with the demads of their occupations.

Brent, please do reach out to any of the Instructors in Washington. We are a pretty small and close knitted group in this state, so let us know how we can help.

Smiling.....

[BmCoomes]

Thank You Joel, I have I've contacted Brian and your more then welcome to join in the fun.

[joelsey]

Thank You Joel, I have I've contacted Brian and your more then welcome to join in the fun.

Brent:

No worries. I must caution you, however, that you should not attempt to teach RMax on your own. While your intent may be admirable, the result have a huge risk factor.

Brain Bentz and I "instruct" together. It's funny because we learn from each other so much in those hours spent instructing. Just yesterday, I asked Brain after the session, "So, show me that again..." and "Hey, I can't get there right now, what can I do incrementally?". To me, Brian is my GoTo for help in IntuFlow and FlowFit. I'd like to belive I'm helping him with his Clubbells.

Long story short, we're really trying to protect you.

Smiling.....

[BmCoomes]

Correct and I understand that. So to reduce the libilty I'm bring in instructors.

[Coach Bentz]

I'd like to belive I'm helping him with his Clubbells.

There's NO doubt in my mind about that, brother!

Edward, you raised some good points. Obviously there are martial roots and applications of CST. What I see as the ray of hope here (and I'm willing to admit it could be the blinding light of my own naivety) is that CST, studying my own case, has not just unlocked patterns of movement, but patterns of emotional behavior. I reacted to stress in very limited, very specific ways. In my case, those were nearly 100% of the time self destructive. Once I started getting live help (I say that because before then, Clubbells very much allowed me to express self-destructiveness), CST didn't enhance my ability to do that, it began helping me remove what exists that caused me to play out those patterns over and again.

With a different upbringing, perhaps I would have acted outwardly under strain instead, made bad choices regarding someone else, and do time for it.

So I see something like this and want to ask the question, would the same principles, once properly learned and applied, create a "super" criminal? Or would have the same effect as me, and change the reaction to stress, and begin to unravel the root of the (here) outwardly destructive patterns of behavior?

I have only my experience, and the example of the high level RMAX Flowfighting athletes to follow here. Looking at the way they carry themselves, I don't see massive egos who can't take a joke without blowing a gasket (guesses on what some of my former MA experience included?). Its my belief that a body trained to absorb and retranslate force will be unable to simultaneously contain a psyche that cannot.

My biggest concern at the moment is how we can deliver this training to the inmates given Brent's current constraints.

[Cody Fielding]

Opinion here gents...

Baseline CST principles and work could do wonders for criminals. The mindful nature of the work, the releases (physical and emotional) could have profound impacts in people who by whatever design are the 'throw aways' of our society and who are imprisoned.

I'd be in favor of Yoga (almost any form) for inmates for example. A form of rehab that could save lives.

Again, just an opinion,
C-

[BmCoomes]

Thank you Coach Fielding I do agree, but I'm using this as a two prong attack one for the inmates and the second is to bring CST into my department.

[Fudog]

Since it was my comment on the COs "stepping up", allow me to appologize if I offended anyone.

When I said that maybe the COs would have to step it up a bit was meant to suggest that maybe introducing them to CST as well might be a good idea.

Could that problem be avoided by instituting a better quality of physical training for the staff?

Again, my joke wasn't intended to be offensive, only to lightheartedly suggest that if the worry would be the inmates being difficult to deal with because of their exercise regiment, then maybe a more sophisticated exercise regiment should be instituted for the COs.


Apology excepted and extended your way for not being able to except your comment for what it was. I couldn't agree with you more as far as introducing a CST physical training for staff.

Sincerely,
Edward Sloan