Grip Fighting....Am I missing something?

[Robert V]

Scott,

In the traditional Judo world, there is much importance given to grip fighting. Yet, in Quatum Gripping you discuss it very little or not at all. I notice when I fight, I do very little of it also. I don't really care where they grip, I just get my grip and go from there.

Also, how often do you usually change grips during a fight and why or why not? What does it depend on?

Thanks,

Robert

[Scott Sonnon]

Robert,

"Grip fighting" has become a convoluted game of codified action-reaction technique chess. I don't even use the phrase any longer because it is so loaded with preconceived ideas and notions.

Where the partner grabs you, he gives you an advantage. Where you grab the partner, you establish an advantage. When the two have joined in this fashion, you have a superior position because although he sees you as an opponent to fight, you see him as an extension of the joint (mental, emotional and physical) center.

You may manipulate him simply by knowing that he presumes you too must be "grip fighting." You do not fight his fight, though he plays your game.

[Robert V]

Scott,

I think I, unconsciously, came up with what you stated above from my multiple viewings of IOUF and practice, but I wasn't sure. I had to read between the lines and I didn't know if I was reading correctly. It's very consistent with the ROSS player's "anti-offensive/defensive-your turn/my turn" game. That's a game you taught me not to play.

But still being new in this field of study, I am sometimes confused my the "traditional jargon" and IOUF's concepts.

Now, I know the player and the game dictate, but what is your personal philosophy about changing your grips during play? I've studied the clips of you playing, but I wasn't sure if you were playing or "playing around", for your skill level was so much higher than the people you were playing with.

The reason I ask is because I'm afraid I'm getting too attached to the grip and stance I use most often, the one you suggest in "JOINT MASS CENTER", even though it is still working like a charm and even very seasoned Judokas have a difficult time working around it.

I hope these questions don't seem too elementary, but I am still only in the elementary stage.

Thanks,

Robert

[Scott Sonnon]

Robert, my friend,

You're far from an elementary stage. Your questions speak loudly to an appreciation that there are no "advanced techniques" - only a simple sophistication of the basic mechanics.

My personal philosophy will come across in the form of aphorism since this is only text. I don't try and throw or takedown anyone anymore. I don't try and seize the JMC. I don't try to control the center of the fight. At this point in time, when I 'do the work' with someone, I experience their intention.

Specifically in this case, this means allowing their "Grip Fighting" to manifest - by definition this creates chains of tension across and throughout them. The goal is to guide this tension - to translate both their kinetic (movement) and potential (stabilizing) tension into a subtle Hyperfunction... so that they throw themselves.

My goal is to let them discover the degree of their over-compensatory force. It is this that throws them. They've thrown themselves. For people who are highly aggressive, this unfortunately results in a heavy ground-thumping. Some take longer than others to learn. Some occasionally find a sweet spot, and at that point I enjoy the ride. It's a beautiful moment, and it doesn't matter if your "uke" or "tori" because you've both worked to create it. Why destroy the event with bull resistance?

Specifically, consider this... where he grabs feel the tension of his grip. By definition, he actively guides you in the opposite direction. If he heavy hand lowers your cuff, it leads into a pant grab. If he pulls to locking arm, he leads you to an outside belt grab. If he pushes high your lapel, you pull that sleeve. Whenever you grab, or switch grips, your feet move so that at the end of the inertia you've begun ends gently with a supporting leg in the joint triangle point. It's a sophistication of "ju".

His muscular action or his ability begins with his movement and alignment - or his opportunity. His opportunity manifests from his intention. You've become quite masterful at controlling your opponent's opportunities... and thus thwarting his abilities before they can appear. Now it is time for you to start actively controlling his intention. (Reference the Somatic Engineering of Combat (http://www.rmax.tv/arthro.html) and apply it to standing grappling.)

We need to grapple together next time we're together. Let's set aside some time for just that purpose (and invite a few others to 'play.')

[Robert V]

This is one post I am going to really have to study. You just put the entire art of jacket fencing, so beautifully, in a few paragraphs...yet, it's a lifetime's work!

You are right. I have gotten to the point where I can halt their attempts, but after that I'm working at a very low awareness level.

My new goal for 2004 is to "feel" and "guide".

I can't wait to learn first hand.

This is one for the archives!

Thank you.

[Robert V]

The last time I studied Somatic Engineering of Combat was right after my last shiai, when I realized I had internalized your precious gift to the combat world. I knew this because as I was pinning one of my opponents, your face and your voice appeared in my head.

So, I wanted to see how accurate I was. Yet, in viewing it, I found so much more. Just like you said in the video, it was as if it wasn't there before.

What was it? That martial combat IS Somatic Engineering of Combat in a nutshell. It is everything.

It sunk in a little more when I read over your advice about clinching and takedown a good boxer.

I just haven't figured out how to control his intention standing and with a jacket, without being overly aggressive.

I have to meditate on this.

[Jim Tinney]

Nice discussion!

Robert,

I just realized you are in Lansing. I recently moved to Ann Arbor, and have been training some jiujitsu - hopefully, we could train together at some point. I have been really impressed with the quality of your posts here, and could learn alot from you, I am sure.

Where are you training in Lansing? Maybe I can make it up there some time. Or if you ever make it to Ann Arbor, let me know. I am currently training at Focus, and try to make it Metro when I can.

Jim
(email: sectorjade@yahoo.com)

[Robert V]

Jim,

I don't get a lot of formal martial arts training in. I go to LCC community college and train lightly once a week. I will begin training with the MSU team soon. I teach yoga three times a week and teach school in the day. I usually get to roll(submission wrestling) once a week right after my yoga class on Saturday mornings at American Martial Arts Academy and if a NHB fighter is training for a fight, I usually get a few rounds of live sparring in.

I also work with a private combatives and LEO group about once a month.

My martial arts gift has been "BodyFlow". It sharpens and sophisticates my movement, which carries over to my martial arts training.

I teach self-defense or teach private training sessions on Sunday, so I don't get to Metro a lot anymore, but I will more in the Spring.

I'd love to get together.

Robert

[Robert V]

Oh..and thanks!

Almost everything I post is an inspiration or regurgitation of something Scott Sonnon has already stated. I confess, I'm his biggest "rip-off"!

[Scott Sonnon]

Robert... no more than Brahms "ripped off" his muse...
Brother, one day I'd be honored to be the one responsible for helping you realizing the depths of your unique genius; until then, I'm very thankful to at least have contributed somewhat to your ongoing evolution.

[Robert V]

That's it, "ongoing evolution". Which has been inspired by you. I'm not cutting myself short. I know is was me who took the time to really "study" your material, oppose to just watch it. And it was also me who dared to try something different on the wrestling and yoga mats and in the ring. And it's my body I'm putting on the line to prove that the basic concepts of IOUF can overcome Judokas with years of traditional judo experience and success.

But, as I meditated on my evolution, every single ounce of it came from your influence. Every bit. Even the yoga vinyasa's I created were in hopes of "sophisticating" yoga movements, which is something I never would of thought of if it were not for you.

I love creating and being original, but I have to give "props" to the true source.

[Tim Morenz]

My god!

This has got to be one of the finest dialogues I have ever had a chance to witness.

I rarely, if ever post, but I have got to say that when you deeply introspect into this discussion between both of you, you get a chance to marvel at combative genius.

Much respect.

p.s. BTW scott, I'm very close to my first purchase of the 15's! I can't wait!!