View Full Version : Application of ROSS / CST to other material - ideas on how?
02-10-2004, 12:03 AM
I'm looking to get input from the tribe on this one, so please do chime in.
What do you feel is the relevance of "technique collections" (read: instructional videos)? Specifically, I'm interested in getting Roy Harris' BJJ201. However, I am *not* interested in memorizing the contents thereof verbatim. For various reasons, I've found that kind of learning is too slow in real life. On the flip side, without *some* technical know how, all the scrambling in the world is for naught.
Given the training hierarchy of CST / ROSS, how does one use such materials? Source of inspiration? Technique gallery? Casual Sunday afternoon viewing? Mining the video for applications of screwing arms, leg swoops etc?
How does on segue from GPP to SPP to Physical Skills?
Sorry. I of all people should know this one, but recent experience has me questioning my beliefs.
All input welcomed.
ps: Yes, I've read the "end of GPP" article. ;-)
02-10-2004, 07:33 AM
My few pennies;
After going thru the CST program, and watching arthrokinetics till my eyes bled, I've been re-viewing all my tapes.
I've taken to watching them with the sound off and explaining what I'm seeing to myself using my new understanding. It's been great! Without the sound, I can't be lazy and have to understand both aspects of motion (ie: demonstrator and uke) in terms of biomechanical movement and joint articulation.
For me it's done great things in keeping me from going back to wrote techniques, but gives me the equivolent of "word problems" in math class.
(and it allows me to indulge my addiction to tapes :wink: )
02-10-2004, 08:47 AM
Personally, I agree with Vince.
I view tapes using ROSS/CST as the filter for the information.
Besides that though there is an old saying that might apply (if you tweak it a little), "Learn from the (mistakes) of others, because you don't have time to make them all yourself!"
That can be for "technique" aquisition, or for how (what, why) NOT to aquire them. . . :twisted:
And you might learn some nuance that you might otherwise "never" found on your own.
02-10-2004, 10:37 AM
Given the training hierarchy of CST / ROSS, how does one use such materials?
I'm not sure what you mean by Hierarchy.
The videos from RMAX are not collections of techniques, the idea is to take the principle that is demonstrated on the video and work with it, using your own creativity.
when you watch videos from other sources you will see "Examples" of the principles so that you can be inspired and they may also help you to internalize the principle. However, nothing takes the place of Self-exploration with a partner, and nothing takes place of learning this process in a condusive environment with a coach. Fighting is too complex to learn by yourself.
Some people look at the examples of the Principles and think the example of the principle is what they should reproduce.
It is about you using your own creativity to create a new tactic or example of how that Principle would come into play in whatever situations that come up. :idea:
02-10-2004, 10:58 AM
To me, the most useful part of watching CST/ROSS tapes is that they tend to re-open my perceptions - when I see someone moving and working in ways that impress me, but those ways don't correspond with the training and movement patterns I've drilled in, I go back to my original materials and ask myself, 'What was going on in here that I didn't notice or percieve before? What did I miss in the original material because I thought I 'already knew it'? What was in the original material that worked for me, but maybe not for the reason I thought it worked?'
I just got AK and IOUF and I will have to say I agree with all so far.
Because Coach Sonnon comes at things from a biomechanics and physics approach, you get insight into what is really going on within the intended movements of your art.
I haven't even finished watching the series so far, let alone a proper study, and already I can see how understanding and applying these little nuances will bring my game up. It already has!
You will be more apt to see what people who are good are doing, and you can replicate it for yourself.
My BJJ instructor doesn't specifically tell me to take away my opponents breathing, movement, and structure, but he sure as hell does it when he fights! He has reached a high level of skill through 20 odd years of training. Hopefully, I will be able to make the progress much quicker by using a better training method.
Coach calls all this stuff "Performance Enhancement", which sounds like a buzz word until you actually study it and realize that it is exactly what it is...
02-10-2004, 12:18 PM
I try to think of the material on BJJ tapes, or wrestling, or whatever as examples of how to accomplish a goal. In BJJ the goal is gain a submission. To do this you have to accomplish intermediate steps. You have to establish a position of control, so that you can confine your partner, by pinning, by use of the guard, whatever. This position must also allow you to isolate a part of your partner, ie the neck or ankle, and use as much of your body as possible to put it in a position where the pain and/or peril is sufficient to cause the desired five finger dance (tap). On the tapes you will have examples of how to achieve this. What is to be avoided is thinking that it is only in that position that you can achieve that lock. Look at what is happening to the limb, or neck, where is the pressure applied, how is it isolated. Then you take your ROSS movements and use them to accomplish the same thing in other positions, in transition points. Then defensively your goal is to unisolate the threatened part, and reestablish freedom of movement. ROSS shines at this..
02-10-2004, 03:56 PM
> I'm not sure what you mean by Hierarchy.
I meant the steady progession pyramid from GPP to SPP, PS, MES as illustrated in the CST book (p 66) / Scott's online articles. Trying to see how and where to use all these instructional videos, because I have a ton piled up. Frankly they're almost useless to me as is. Either I have to spend countless hours drilling the moves (not practical, nor useful on the mat) or find a way of filtering the info contained thru CST / ROSS.
Everyone's answers were pretty much as I suspected. Just needed someone who's not me to tell it ;-) Sometimes I can't be sure my intuition is 100% trustworthy.
02-10-2004, 11:10 PM
Sometimes I can't be sure my intuition is 100% trustworthy.
No amount of techniques, tapes, input or ROSS can help you if you insist on entertaining the dangerous indulgence of NOT trusting your intuition.
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