Fear Reactivity as a result of (perceived) lack of options?

[Jarlo Ilano]

All,

I was in class last night, and we were working on defending strikes and the like while on our backs (in different positions, guard, mounted, side control). Not hard strikes, but fast and realistic from different angles. Enough to keep you on your toes. Very useful for me.

I am a novice in terms of groundwork. The most experience for me was of being a middling wrestler in junior high and early high school.
On the other hand I have been boxing and doing a variety of "stand up" martial arts since I was 12 (17 years ago), with good hard contact. So I am very used to fighting this way, and with a variety of opponents, usually larger than myself (I am a nice above average height asian of 5'7 1/2" Ha! :P ). I rarely experience great anxiety even when being hit hard and fast standing up. I was, quite simply, used to it.

On the ground however.... The words, "squealing like a little girl" are somewhat appropos! Perhaps, not that bad, and definitely better from applying CST principles of relaxation. But still full of fear reaction.

Is this simply because I am not practiced, nor have the full range of techniques/options as a more experienced player?
Which is why I am very glad to be participating in this new training. I see myself progressing well, and the quality of instruction and atmosphere among the students is top notch.

I was thinking of this also in light of the recent posts by Bob and Rick Bibbs.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Jarlo

[bob_stra]

Hey buddy

I dunno what to tell you, other than to say "YES"! I too have experienced this odd phenomenon.

It's interesting how our perception is tied in to our location in space. I'm pretty certain you know abt the prism glasses / idiopathic scoliosis experiment. Unfortunately, they didn't record whether there were any emotional changes, though I imagine there were.

yeah, good question! Sorry I can't add much to it.

PS: Sending stuff to you tommorow - watch your inbox.

[Lee]

Any new type of training can cause fear reactivity to manifest. It is a new unfamiliar activity which can be stressful.

One of the good things about CST style training is you will be more apt to take to new activities because you are always seeking the unfamiliar in your personal practice. If you are always taking your body through new ranges of motion and exploring unfamiliar positions, then there is less and less "new" stuff for you to experience. Of course there is always something "new" to learn, so its kind of an important training paradox...

On to the more practical side, here some tips on what to try. You are probably just not able to see the options of what you can do, go slowly and think about what can be done from the positions. Here a ROSS way of looking at things: From inferior positions you need to affect his ability to attack you. (I think the term is ability, I've only watched AK once, so bear with me). If he's mounting you, bump his hips so he has to put his hands down to balance. If you are in side control, you could keep a tight under hook on the shoulder to take away his ability to use the arm. From the guard, open it and block his shoulders/elbows with your knees, control his head with a hand, and you have a free hand to strike him.

Its a fun area to drill when you can see your options...

[Coach Billew]

Good comments so far.

You want to develop incrementally and having fists fly at your head very quickly in an unusual position can certainly send you spiraling down the vortex. Been there. Done that.

If you have a willing training partner I would try working the same drills, but slowly and starting from shock absorption. Don't try to defend just try to relax and move to absorb the incoming force. If you are not familiar with the ROSS approach to shock absorption let me know, and I can go into more detail.

Once you are comfortable absorbing blows, and therefore better able to maintain your integrated breathing, movement, and structure, begin slowly to try to apply your preowned skills to this new situation. If you can focus as Lee suggested on tactics that disintegrate your opponents breathing, movement, or structure then you will be better able to improvise responses to the attacks.

Finally you can begin to increase the speed, but remember as you increase the speed you don't want to decrease the force too much or else the attacks will be like light slaps and you don't want to train yourself to overreact to a weak attack.

If you don't have someone who will train this way with you then I would do some solo soft work from the various positions so that you can begin to see the movement possibilities on the ground. Then in the classroom setting give yourself the directive when you get fear reactive of Equalizing the pressure through performance breathing, Depolarize the lunar and solar plexi by moving whichever plexus is not pinned to the ground, and then Mobilize your limbs to get yourself moving.

I hope this helps.

[rbibbs]

Jarlo, I wasn't "there", but the first thing that came to mind reading your account of it, was the contrast between standup striking where you have a degree of control over range, and ground striking where that's largely taken away from you. So don't be overly alarmed at your reaction, standup experience notwithstanding, being attacked with strikes in a position of immobility is a whole nother game. I only practiced it once, with a cooperative partner who was skilled in standup and ground, and yes, on bottom I was VERY VERY busy! (Reluctant to say "helpless", but that about sums it up.) We switched positions, and HE was very very busy, even though I'm not particularly "skilled" at either game.

Here's another set of contrasts from recent experience: I used to find it all-but-impossible to breathe when mounted. Yeah, "some" pressure on my chest, but looking back that accounted for maybe 15% of the difficulty, the rest was the perceived threat. I could breathe just FINE with 330# worth of training buddies stacked on top of me (thanks Kym and Coach Dan)... but HALF that weight threatening me, and I'd tap from respiratory distress. I don't know what became of that fear, it just kinda went away, maybe I got used to it. Tuesday night, I observed it happening to another guy. Under me. I'm 140, he's 160. I'm in his half-guard, sprawled (but not "bearing down") on him, got his L arm and neck in the crook of my R elbow, my hands locked to maintain that control. I wasn't (from MY perspective) threatening him... after all, my arms were occupied in a controlling (not a finishing) position. Nothing on the R side of his neck to threaten a choke. And to a healthy 30-something 160# guy, 140# shouldn't feel much heavier than a thick winter quilt. After a couple minutes of that, I let him go... we're just in this for the experience and fun, and at this point, I learn more from giving up potential finishes than I do from cranking them to conclusion... but he told me later, it wasn't really even uncomfortable, he just couldn't breathe. Again, maybe 15% physical distress, and the rest was perceived helplessness... fear. Dang, and he's not a local, or I'd have a great opportunity to advance HIS game, working on that specific fear, until he got used to it.

"Paranoia strikes deep; into your life it will creep, starts when you're always afraid..." (Stephen Stills, "For What It's Worth") Not that that's word-for-word applicable, it just popped into my head, 60s flashback. :wink:

Lee and Slade already wrote good suggestions, I just wanted to further illustrate the phenomenon.

Rick

[Dan Chomycia]

Jarlo,
First off let me commend you on not giving up and being open with your training. 8)
Now to summarize the above posts and Answer your :?: 's.

Is this simply because I am not practiced, nor have the full range of techniques/options as a more experienced player?
No, it is not because you are not "Practiced" because you stated your experience above. The reasons your are fearful is because the mat doesn't give way when you are hit like the air does.

Previously you were tough enough to handle getting hit on your feet because the force had some where to go beside your body.

Now you are almost literally caught "Getting Rocked in the Hard Place" in this instance it is the mat.

So you learned to navigate on your feet, and absorb the punishment. Now you must learn to navigate the mat even better to absorb the same amount of force, you have to learn how to move your body better on the mat and your must learn to redirect his intention better from the mat.

I recommend Either Body-flow (http://www.rmax.tv/kinetic.html)or Grappler's ToolBox (http://www.rmax.tv/toolbox.html)for mat navigation, I recommend Plural Assailant Engagements (http://www.rmax.tv/pae.html) to learn how to deal with Shock from the ground. This could get you started on the right track, if the issue is more about the fear then you will need to take down the intensity a few notches and work up from there.

:idea:
Now to deal with the immediate drill if you have to do this drill again in class think of the times that you were pinned up against the ropes, have your Performance Goal be to keep moving away from both intentions, from the mat and from the person on top of you for these 2 opponents are working simultaneously.

Just keep moving away from both of these forces and you should do better during class.

If you have any questions let me know and keep us posted on your results.

[Jarlo Ilano]

All,

Thank you very much for your great suggestions!

Lee, Slade,

Thanks again! Very useful information. Also, I didn't mean to imply that the instructor just put us into the position with no instruction. He actually gave good structure (with options much like yours, Lee). I was referring to how those techniques seemed to desert me!

Rick, Coach Dan,

Very interesting, I didn't really think about the fact that being "in a position of immobility". Seems so obvious now! After the fact, I was just focused on how I felt "I didn't know what to do", when perhaps I was feeling "there's no way out of this!"

Also, consciously, I do not feel "threatened" by the training, as the school, though based in realistic training, is not one where intimidation is used as a "learning tool". (This cannot be said of some other places on this island!) The first couple of times in this training drill, I had an immediate fear reaction, but I am now managing to calm this down.
Though yesterday, I did experience what Rick talks about in his description of being mounted. We ended class, with positional rolling, wherein we started mounted and attempted to get out (then repeated for the time alotted). Same deal, I felt "threatened" by the pressure on my chest, and the fact that I couldn't employ the techniques that were taught to us to escape the mount. I "realized" my reactivity, and calmed down, but not after a good amount of time spiraling down.
Well, when it was my turn to assume the mount against my training partner, I was swept a couple of times, until I figured out my base, and found a way to affect his breath and movement. Now he has a good 30 pounds on me, so like Rick, he shouldn't have felt that bad. But, I felt him at one point, basically just giving up.

Coach Dan, thank you for the specific strategy of moving both away from the opponent and away from the MAT. Wonderful.

Thanks to all again, I am definitely looking forward to improving this game.

Jarlo

[Ben Waddell]

Just reading the aboveposts and I thought I might relate an experience to you that I found quite interesting. I have never trained in any sort of ground-fighting, grappling, wrestling type martial art. I am a stand-up fighter by trade (Shotokan Karate) BUT I was practicing Body-Flow exercises at the gym I go to on their floor space for quite some time and had become quite fluent in my movement.

One day I came in and there were two guys practicing BJJ on the floor. They said they were only learning it off tapes for fun and then they would come to the gym to try it out, but they were quite impressive all the same. When I asked if I could have a go as one of them was tired they were eager to see "what I had to offer."

I was most surprised to find that I was inadvertently accessing my Body-Flow skills during the match and keeping my opponent on his toes. he won that match but the other guy said he wanted to try me. It wasn't long before I had him bailed up in a headlock with nowhere to go. One more match against the first guy which I lost again. but all the same I found it interesting that by doing Body-Flow I had a greater awareness of my surrounding while on the ground and it was enough to even impress these two!