Scott, How did you kick Caffeine?

[Mike]

Scott, I was reading somewhere that you gave up caffeine a while back and I was wondering if you could give some detail as to how you went about doing it? Did you quit cold turkey? Or did you have a planned system for slowly decreasing the amount of caffeine you were taking in?

I'm asking because my psychiatrist suggested that I stop drinking coffee and other caffenated beverages/foods because stimulants aren't good for people with GAD!

[Connie Brown]

For what it's worth, here's a little article on quitting stimulants.

http://www.radiantrecovery.com/newsletter2/stimulantuse.htm

[Scott Sonnon]

It was a personal realization disassociating me with the chemical roller-coaster caffeine cost my life. During a high altitude mountain run, I collapsed, and the insulin crash nearly made it impossible to return down. When I finally got home, I rabidly scribbled down the notes which became Body-Flow: Freedom from Fear-Reactivity (http://www.rmax.tv/bodyflow.html). The discovery reprioritized the 'value' I placed on stimulants.

Then - cold turkey. Sorry. No program here. You have to have faith that who you are is not what you experience during the crashes and what you experience in the first few weeks of withdrawals. No matter what ideas may bubble into your mind attempting to convince you to in whole or part return to the substance, it is only the chemicals creating those thoughts (literally). You will feel better than you can ever imagine. Have faith in that fact, set yourself a two month goal, and don't waver in your dedication to better health and performance.

[Mike]

Thanks Scott, I'm gonna go for it!!

Were you a serious coffee drinker?

[Scott Sonnon]

Serious as a heart attack. Best coffee in the world here.

[Mike]

Serious as a heart attack. Best coffee in the world here.

We're not that far away from you here! People love their Java in Vancouver!LOL

I guess about 3 1/2 years ago i had an atrial fibualtion. Nothing harmful, but the cardiologist said it "might be better" if I quit the caffine. Went from being a venti triple mocha guy to being a decaf venti triple mocha guy that day - same as Scott - one headache and done.

[Connie Brown]

I think it's worth appreciating that both Coach Sonnon and Bill did this from a place of most excellent regular diet & fitness. If you have those it is easier for cold turkey to "stick."

[JasonE]

Some years ago I was drinking at least 12 cans of Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, etc. - every day. As long as it was caffeinated and had loads of sugar (couldn't stand diet)... I would drink it.

On a little family trip, I went 3 days without any caffeine at all, then on the next morning my head exploded and I spent several hours suffering until I had someone bring me a Diet Pepsi. 30 minutes later, I was fine. The junkie had got his fix.

After that I tried halfheartedly to kick the habit a few times, but always relapsed.

Last year, as I was putting on the pounds and hating the way my body looked and felt more and more, I began to dislike the habit of drinking soft drinks...then the taste... and then I just decided to quit. In November I made a promise to myself to get back in shape and go beyond my previous best. With that promise, I started drinking lots more water and stopped drinking soft drinks altogether, overnight, with no withdrawal symptoms of any kind.

Now that I've made a lot of improvements, I will let myself have a soft drink about 1x per week, and I can enjoy it. Even better, I don't get cravings or go back for a refill... I can just enjoy it while it lasts, and let that be the end of it.

I had read my friend's copy of Bodyflow before I kicked the habit, and the concept that "I am not my bad habits" stayed with me. It was one of the things that made me start getting angry.

If I am not my bad habits, then I have to accept responsibility for my own repetitive behaviors and learn how to overcome them. Anything that triggers a repetition of those behaviors is a part of the problem which I can choose to avoid or control. If I don't choose to exercise my own ability to choose and simply go with my impulses, I am essentially letting those triggers make life decisions for me...

It's hard to articulate how angry I became when I realized how I had allowed the chemical compounds contained in soft drinks to influence my behaviors, resulting in excessive weight and flab, drastically reduced physical performance, and roughly a thousand dollars (possibly more) in unnecessary annual expenses. When I kicked them, it was with malicious intent, a desire to show how little power they truly had over me. Every swallow of water became a joyous celebration of my power to make my own choices.

My thanks to Coach Sonnon for sharing his insights into personal addictions through Bodyflow, which helped inspire what my friends and family all consider to be a near-miraculous overnight change in my behavior.

[James Boelter]

I really think that this is another case where 'ripeness is all'. When you are really motivated to quit, really want to for reasons that are compelling to you, you will go ahead and do it, and deal with the (admittedly excruciating) discomfort.

It is also possible to ramp down your caffeine consumption somewhat for a few weeks or months previous, so that either the need to quit isn't so egregious, or else when the time comes the 'crash' won't be as bad.

I cut my caffeine consumption literally in half by simply adopting a tactic straight out of Prevention magazine - any time I want a coffee or a Diet Coke, I drink 12-16 oz of water first, and eat a handful of almonds if available for the salt, the fiber, and the EFAs. If I still want it, I brew up some green tea and drink that (I have one of those electric kettles that can bring water up to boiling in less than 2 minutes). If I still want some caffeine, (and I generally do 8) ) I go ahead and have some , but it is usually a lot less than I would have originally.

I was up to about a gallon of fountain Diet Coke a day several years ago (working a graveyard shift at a computer service center), and now I average a little less than 1/3 of that. Admittedly, it's still probably too much. Some of the rest of the change is a better reading of internal cues - knowing 'when' I've had enough and when more would start screwing up my moods and health for the day.

[Vbrown]

Would it be wrong to point out that Voltare did some of his finest work on 40 cups a day? :shock:


Vince (who is awaiting his beating)

[Connie Brown]

Would it be wrong ... Vince awaiting his beating
Asked and answered.

That one about genius maybe depending on the substance drives me nuts.

If genius is a person's birthright it'll be there, caffeine or no

[Coach Billew]

Vince,

I know you were joking, but as an artist this is a question I have thought about alot over the years. I think that the answer may lie in people using these substances to help uncover their genius. To get out of their own way as it was. Fortunately Coach Sonnon and others have helped promote healthy ways to realize your own genius. As someone who spent many years being a "tortured artist". I love being able to free my own creativity without having to experience the many downsides of both substance abuse and emotional self abuse. These days my main painful vice is the swing of the clubbell.

[Chuck Kechter]

Slade wrote:

As someone who spent many years being a "tortured artist". I love being able to free my own creativity without having to experience the many downsides of both substance abuse and emotional self abuse.

Bravo!

As a writer, painter sculpter, et cetera, I have NEVER liked the image of the "tortured artist," though I have many friends in the arts that still follow this hollow, and self defeating meme.

I have had fellow artist blame their lack of success on that same self image (that they created and sustained!), and on those same "addictions" that got them there, never once taking responsibility for their state of being, or their talent.

I'm glad to hear of someone breaking this cycle. Congrats!

Chuck

[Vbrown]

It was/is sorta tongue in cheek to be sure, but I did go to an interesting book reading with an author who looked at the correlation between the introduction of stimulates to Europe (coffee and nicotine both hit about the same time) and the revolutions in humanistic thought.

As far as the tortured artist paradigm...in my limited experience thus far, there is no coming to consciousness without pain. And if an artist is trying to raise not only their own consciousness, but that of the public at large, are they not suffering that much more?

So I've totally hijacked this thread. My apologies. Like I've said, it's important for folks to pay attention to what is happening in their own bodies and minds. Food IS drugs. Don't beleive me? Eat a brownie and a glass of milk and tell me your mood didn't change....

Retreating,

Vince

[Connie Brown]

Yes, we are on a hijack - and I'm going to continue it anyway. I totally agree with the food and mood thing.

This is personal for me too. I had a tortured genius boyfriend who tried to manage the creative anguish part with substances and ultimately did not survive. He learned other ways towards the end and really wished he had known it much sooner.

this is where understanding from research in the last 10 years is helpful.

One of the big players is the genetic level of beta-endorphin. Yup the same brain chemical that is "lit up" by drugs, AND psychotropic food, AND the exercise high.

When a person is born with low beta-endorphin, the brain compensates by making TONS of receptors for it. So that whenever there's any BE going around, the brain has a better chance of getting some. This is called being highly upregulated.

And the mood when there is no BE around is very dark, low self esteem, doom, feeling apart from and less than everyone else.

Ok take a person who is highly upregulated. When they get a hit of BE from alcohol, white powders, starvation, exercise, or whatever, the receptors are flooded and the brain lights like a pinball machine. IT FEELS WONDERFUL. People who are not wired this way have a hard time understanding.

The mood from huge BE is bright, confident, powerful, at one with everything good.

But when the hit comes from exogenic substances, it fades!!! and then the receptors all empty out. Back to darkdom. Can you see the roller coaster.

This whole scenario seems to be really big with intelligence and creativity too.

It is possible to get out from under this and re-regulate BE so there is no more roller-coaster. But it takes knowing and doing! And the creativity stays and can find proper expression!

(Oversimplified explanation courtesy of DesMaisons research plus the experiences of thousands over at her online community. FWIW)

[JasonE]

When a person is born with low beta-endorphin, the brain compensates by making TONS of receptors for it. So that whenever there's any BE going around, the brain has a better chance of getting some. This is called being highly upregulated.

And the mood when there is no BE around is very dark, low self esteem, doom, feeling apart from and less than everyone else.

Ok take a person who is highly upregulated. When they get a hit of BE from alcohol, white powders, starvation, exercise, or whatever, the receptors are flooded and the brain lights like a pinball machine. IT FEELS WONDERFUL. People who are not wired this way have a hard time understanding.

The idea of a congenital factor makes a lot of sense to me. I have heard of "addictive personalities", but a physical explanation is a much more satisfying possibility.

I know people that have tried cocaine and other drugs but said they didn't really get much out of it... it would affect the way they felt, but it wasn't a "High" the way they had heard it described. My own experimentation with nicotine was a bit disappointing for the same reason: it didn't do anything.

If a person is born producing a normal amount of beta-endorphin, it seems they would be less likely to develop substance-abuse disorders.

Is anyone aware of any studies on this?

[Jarlo Ilano]

Andrew Weil has a slightly different view of this. Before his current status as an "alternative medicine" guru, his research was on substance use and addiction. "The Natural Mind" is a great book. I also saw a lecture he had on C-span (or something like that).

He talked about (and I am paraphrasing from memory here, so details could be off) things such as the environmental influences on addiction. A prime example were of some Vietnam veterans who were heavy users of marijuana and narcotics and returned home to never use again.

Also, more germane to this discussion, he spoke of the differing effects of nicotine in individuals. Many state that nicotine is as, or more, addictive than heroin or cocaine. Many never kick this habit, yet others quit cold turkey, without too much concern. So-called true "casual" users. He states, that those more likely to not have the intense craving for nicotine actually are the ones that receive more of a "buzz" with the substance. And receive this stimulation each time with little dropoff, whereas others get more habituated to the effect. It is in these people, that he found those who could drop the habit without difficulty.

I have noticed this in myself actually. I have always had a strong reaction to nicotine, never able to smoke more than one cigarette without feeling strong effect. I would go from smoking one or two nights in a row, then never again for months. (The poor habits of college!!)

So, there may be more to addiction, in that the strong physical reaction to a substance may spur one individual to further use, and take the other in the other direction.

Jarlo

[Connie Brown]

[quote]Is anyone aware of any studies on this?

Here is a start.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=8611062&dopt=Abstract

The Pub Med articles are really dense but you might try a search on "addiction" and "beta-endorphin". I will ask my favorite researcher in this area for more targeted info.