raising children: ROSS / CST etc ideas?

[Charlie]

i came across an interesting question in an old thread on Russian Martial Art. "regarding RMA, hear a lot about natural movements and recovering them since they're lost as we grow older. It makes me wonder if people who practice systems like Systema or ROSS that emphasize natural movement have techniques/tricks for raising their own children that make it less likely that those kids will lose their natural movements?"

i guess a common example is how infants naturally belly-breath, but somehow many adults end up as shoulder/chest breathers. does anyone here have have ideas they'd like to share?

[James Boelter]

I am afraid that unless you raise the children in total social isolation, that the 'SMA/Forget to Be Natural' portion of their development is inevitable, at least in modern Western society. I have no data, sociological or anthropoligical to support this...it just seems to me that at a certain point, children will be immersed in the messages and modeling of their peer groups at school and play, and in the 19 skillion conflicting messages of the media torrent we are all swim in. The 'meme' and glamorous images of modern society's body modeling and mythology of 'how to live' is infectious, seductive and almost irresistible (especially if you don't have the awareness to know you are being seduced).

Also, as children develop, they are inevitably going to look outside their family's and folk's achieved and received wisdom and advice...and embrace the big wide world, with all its excitement and newness as a way of differentiating their own identities. Call it a 'loss of innocence'?

There are always exceptional individuals who escape this process, but they are just that, exceptional. The rest of us have to 'find our way back' once we realize that what we are doing ain't cutting it. I firmly believe we CAN find our way back, as complete, mature individuals as a choice, not an unthinking reflex, and in that way we have the chance to go beyond the teachings of our families while still embracing what is good about them.

Or something vaguely Whiteheadian like that.

[Scott Sonnon]

I generally restrict myself to training specific posts, as it can come across that I suppose my view to be an absolute. My viewpoint relates only to my current perspective, so please consider it only with that weight.

Child education ultimately reflects our personal views on epistemology and metaphysics. Understanding the impact of our world view upon the way we craft the education of children remains paramount to determining the method of their growth.

During my academic career I learned a viewpoint of the 'natural state' - in which children reside, and to which adults pine to return. Basically, this perspective teaches that we must work to maintain the natural grace of children, and seek to correct the problems adults face in order to return to that state of grace.

Over time however traveling to different cultures and researching more deeply and cross-disciplinarily, I came to the perspective that every individual experiences a set of challenges throughout their life. No person lay outside the touch of significant challenge, nor should they want to. No educational method should be so crafted that it protects the child from challenge. Educational methods should seek to provide tools for mitigating and understanding the normality of WHEN (not if), a child experiences Fear-Reactivity.

All other creatures in some survival strategy or another demonstrate this natural state of Processing Fear-Reactivity. My current perspective (especially as a father myself) posits that for our children (and ourselves), we must redefine grace from being an ideal state in which nothing goes awry, to an efficient process of recovering from crises when it occurs.

To make this specific to task... A child does not yet face sophisticated challenges, and as a result, we see their freedom and can easily fool ourselves into believing their state to be ideal. Children are not in an ideal state of movement. They need to develop, coordinate and refine motor skills and general attributes (kinesthetic sense, position sense, force/tension sense - IOW: mechanoreception).

I see many children being taught what not to do, rather than being given an opportunity to learn how to recover from when mistakes, when the unexpected and when the shocking happens. I believe as a parent and teacher that for our children just as ourselves, we must craft incrementally progressive challenges (relative to the individual's mechanoreceptive development) that increase the graceful RECOVERY from mistakes. This 'imperfect training' method is not widely accepted or welcomed for it is a departure from the convention of promoting the 'perfect' environment of conventional educational methods - where everyone wins, no one loses, and nothing ever goes awry. This conventional method, IMO, directly reduces aptitude, concentration, focus and... survivability.

[rbibbs]

Great philosophical question Charlie. Like saying to one's self, "I always wanted a 'perfect' world, but I didn't get one, but it's the only one I have, can I bequeath the fulfillment of that wish to my children?" It's dam well worth a shot mate! And just by asking the question, you're a lot closer to being able to do it.

(Philosophical answer; questionably practical, seeing as how I was so afraid of 'becoming my parents' or my children becoming ME that I never had any.): You can't give them a database of resolutions that will solve all their challenges; you don't 'know' what they will face, or whether the solution you'd apply would resolve matters to their unique and functional satisfaction. You can (and will) give them a framework, toolbox, flow-chart for problem-solving. Some of the tools, they'll use and cherish all their lives, and pass on. A few they'll lose track of, and they'll acquire new ones as they apply their hearts and interests to making their world 'perfect'. Let them see how you use the tools... perhaps most importantly, your internal decision-making process, as it applies to decisions you have to 'make for them', as they encounter situations for the first time. When they (inevitably) ask "Why can't I?/ Why do I have to?"... my answer would always start with "Let's see...". They're now part of the process. Then let them see the logic by which you reached your conclusion. Sure, at the time, when they want dessert before dinner, they probably won't be any more satisfied with 'no' than if you'd answered "because". I'm just thinking that, demonstrating the logical process by which we reach conclusions is the "teaching a man to fish" of preparing youngsters to solve their own conflicts. In the ROSS context, teaching a man to learn to fight, developing his instincts and attribute-set, as distinct from trying to teach him to fight by superimposing one's own instincts and applications on top of his.

Well, all that was kinda what would have made my world 'perfect'; it's the only representative datapoint I have. My upbringing didn't teach me that, the discipline of science did, and it took a lot longer, resulted in a few 'questionable' decisions along the way (and in all likelihood, a few more before I'm finished learning). But you were looking at/for an applied methodology to innoculate your children from fear/fear-reactivity, especially in the physical domain. Fear-innoculation! I won't say it's impossible, but it would take a lot snappier mind than mine to come up with the 'manual'. Here's what you can do: With your own parental instincts, at least for the time they're living alongside your example, you will see them develop manifestations of fear-reactivity. You'll also have the opportunity to let them go through this as you address your own solutions. Take them through the solution process with you; problem identification/definition, recognizing the source, outlining the options, choosing the one that most efficiently vectors you/them toward the desired results, and best matches your/their heart and attributes.

You can't give them the answers when you don't yet know what the questions will be. You can give them the process.

I hope there's something 'useful' amidst all that brain-fog.

Rick

[Mike Baldwin]

A great thread !!!!!

Some books you may find insightful:

Judith Rich Harris's "The Nurture Assumption". Looks at the effects of significant others, such as peer groups, upon how kids ultimately turn out as adults. This book caused major rethinks throughout the academic word re educating kids. Some people were very scared of/antagonistic towards some of her conclusions.

Martin Seligman's books: " The Optimistic Child", "Learned Optimism", "Authentic Happiness". Seligman is the gentleman who led much of the research on Learned Helplessness. He suggests ways of encouraging kids to explore, experience frustration etc with the effect of inocculating kids in varying degrees against helplessness. His latest book also involves Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi who is the guy who wrote the book "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience."

Cheers :D

[Chuck Kechter]

I echo, a GREAT thread!

Another book I found helped is: Kids Are Worth It, by Barbara Coloroso. In it she gives a "template" for teaching kids about choices and consequences. It also shares some EXCELLENT communication tools that helped change the way I communicate with kids and adults (still a work in progress :wink: ) in turn .

Chuck

[Connie Brown]

Yes, wonderful thread. Knowing what I know now, here are things I would do if I had child-rearing to do again :

1. teach the kids to make their own body-flow type connections. How events make THEM feel mechanically. Kids love figuring out their own stuff. I have seen parents do this with food and it is so exciting seeing kids make their own choices once they know for themselves how eating makes them feel (good and not so good). 8 year olds turning down after-school GS cookies and stuff like that.

2. add some DROM explorations to the usual TLC for decompressing exciting times. It is routine after challenges and trauma to do the whole regular schedule, good meals, bath, and story time routine. why not add some DROM exploration.

3. talk out loud when I do my own decompressing DROM. "hmm hard day at the office, guess I will check out my neck and shoulders" sorta thing.

[jaloo]

My 5yr old daughter and I do the Warrior Wellness beginner series each night when I come home after work. It seems to me that she is really starting to show more coordination during the exercises.

Doing the series together moves it into the realm of play, which really helps me relax during the exercises and gives us some great together time. As I play with the techniques in BodyFlow she mimics me and chains develop as we move around.

Doing such exercises together is enriching for both parents and children, and it keeps the stress levels down.

[bob_stra]

does anyone here have have ideas they'd like to share?

Hey buddy

Well, seeing the Scott wrote what I wanted to say *and* that you already pretty much know my stance on this one, I'm just gonna name drop ;-)

Home Schooling
Steiner
Montessori

If you home school, you pretty much have total control of how to pass on your own ideals and values. I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not saying there wouldn't be problems, but .....

The other two are based on the idea of developing "natural inquisitiveness".

Personally, I'd prefer to do the first, but the missus....she worries I'll be creating some kind of unholy army of the undead ;-)

Cool topic.

[Coach Billew]

This is a great thread.

I thought I would rephrase/add that the most significant impact you can have is not by trying to teach your children certain things, but by living your life by the ideas expressed through CST you present that as a an option.

In my own experience my mother always tried to teach me life lessons, and tell me how I should live, and I resented it. My father on the other hand lived his life, included me in his thought process, and helped me when I asked for it, but he didn't try to lecture me or show me how I should be. The result is I am very much like my father, and have little in common with my mother.

It is said, if you don't want your children to smoke, don't smoke. If you don't want your children to be violent, don't be violent. Lets turn those around and say if you want your children to be creative, adventurous, and free then be those things yourself, and most importantly share that part of your life with them, not as a lesson, but openly as you would share it with a friend.

Another great book:

Learning All the Time by John Holt, Holt is the grandfather of the American Homeschooling movement, and has some great insight into helping children grow and develop without giving them "lessons". Also if you are ready to have your ideas about children and their place in our society really challenged you should read Holt's Escape from Childhood.

Keep up the great discussion.