The "Hurling" Benchmark

[JasonE]

Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:48 pm Post subject:
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I love it Jonas! How do ya know where the limits are if you don't hit them? We've got gonzo BJJ guys 18-45yo doing the same thing... I think the "hurling thing" is a genetic predisposition... slight imbalances in shifting to ATP metabolism, or sensitivities to blood pH and/or metabolic by-products. "Performance Breathing™" might get you around that. Blood pH shifts when excessive carbon dioxide is lost from hyper-respiration. Play with that threshold some, see if you can determine what drives it.

Rick

All the references to people throwing up or nearly throwing up from exertion that I see on these boards is surprising to me. Although I have seen it happen a couple of times, I have never experienced it, even at my most fatigued.

Hell, my lungs and muscles burn and shut down way before my gut would even consider rumbling, unless I've just eaten.

Is it really so common for people to throw up from working out hard or from heavy competition, or is this more of an elite-athlete pasttime? If so, why? Is it unusual for a person to never throw up from exertion in years of training and competition?

No offense to anyone here, but I've always figured that the only reasons a person throws up is because they ate something they shouldn't have, or when they shouldn't have, or because they are sick. It seems logical to assume that there may be a genetic predisposition for sicking up, but I'd like to know more about this phenomena and its underlying physiology.

[jonas2]

I have only experienced it from running and its usually only when i get back to running from a prolonged period of not running. I think it has to do with breathing correctly as well as finding my stride again. When I get back into shape, or even after just running a few times, I find my rhythm for breathing and the problem usually goes away. It only happens when I am at the far edge of my limits and its not really straight up nausea as much as my stomach muscles feel like they are cramping lightly. Thats usually what happens. As I said tho, once I get back into a normal running routine, the puking usually goes away.

Jonas

[James Boelter]

Speaking as a person who experienced 'dry heaves' more than once, especially after 30 rep squats, I think that the phenomenon may be related to an 'overshoot' when the parasympathetics try to balance and correct the extreme activation of the sympathetic nervous system; combined with the several mechanical churning of the stomach and SI from diaphragm and rectus abdominus during serious wind sucking.

But I am only guessing. I would be interested to know where the phenomenon comes from, and why some people do it and others don't.

[rbibbs]

From the handful of occurrences I've seen... the concurrent events are 1)breathing "all out" for an extended period and/or 2) known, minor metabolic overshoots/imbalances like thyroid or insulin. It's never happened to me either, though at times I've felt like Lloyd Bridges with his air-hose cut. (Oh sorry, there was a B/W TV series in the 50s called "Sea Hunt" and....)

Respiration is driven autonomically by CO2 content, because that's by far the most critical. Not only is CO2 toxic in excessive concentrations, but it's also a blood pH buffer (stabilizer) so too little is toxic too. The range is pretty dang narrow before physiological symptoms result-- cramps, vomiting, 'lightheadedness', unconsciousness. To my knowledge, no physiological systems monitor O2 content. The other input to respiration rate is endocrinological... "desperation" hormones... adrenaline... (Bob, what are the other half-dozen, epinephrine, cortisol...?). Hormonal-breathing can override CO2-metered-breathing and slew blood pH. There are going to be varying degrees of sensitivity/reaction to excursions in blood pH, and there are going to be varying degrees of hormonal or habitual mis-breathing.

So I'm thinking, root cause, heredity or stress-induced hormonal excursions, and as a possible intermediate contributor, blood pH excursions. The points at which we can hypothetically intervene, are breathing and neurological arousal. More substantive discourse is welcome, I could be saturated with methane. (Scotty might uncharacteristically say, "Dammit Jim, I'm an engineer not a doctor".)


Rick