Emotional state during sparring/fighting practice

[Coach Larson]

At the end of my fencing classes here we usually do several rounds of free fencing.
I generally try to stay detached and observant.
I have to admit that I am not always successful in this.
Sometimes pride or ego or whatever it is gets aroused and my emotional state starts to get aggitated.
The thing is that sometimes when I get more emotionally keyed up (or just plain angry) I often do better, score more touches an seem to psychologically overmatch my opponent. But then afterwards I feel somewhat guilty as if my fencing had been tainted by a gross display of ego.

Any thoughts on this?
What emotional state should I be trying to maintain during training? What about during competition? How are these two contexts related in regards to contolling emotion?

[Aengus]

"Sometimes pride or ego or whatever it is gets aroused and my emotional state starts to get aggitated.

The thing is that sometimes when I get more emotionally keyed up (or just plain angry) I often do better, score more touches an seem to psychologically overmatch my opponent. But then afterwards I feel somewhat guilty as if my fencing had been tainted by a gross display of ego."

*******************************************

Chief,
Been there done that. Nothing to get to alarmed about. What I've found in my experiance's is that the more I worried about a fight or the more I want the win, the more things happen; not neccesarily bad things but things that will sap your performance and joy. If I'm fighting not to win but instead, not to lose, I'm a wreck. I try to get the blows in harder instead of faster which slows me down, my flinch reflex is off the charts and I can't sometimes have a tough time focusing because of all the noise in my head.
If I fight to win, I walk out onto the field and carry the attitude of "I came here to kick ass and chew gum. And I'm all out of gum". You try and dominate your opponent with your spirit and win the fight before it even begins. It's the one's who don't buy the attitude that make for the best fights. It's not ego. It's strategy.

As for the anger, is it because your opponent scored a point by doing something not honorable or because you did someting wrong? That's frustrating and normal. You take a step back, re-focus , get frosty and wade back into the fray and show him whose house it is.

In training, it's different because you should be either Coaching someone and/or working on your own stuff. You have to lower you guard when training a lesser skilled opponent just enough to give them either the confidence they need to continue or to let them work on a new skill. Same goes for yourself. If your working drills, you can relax and focus on the things you need work on and let the other stuff go.

As for sparring, if your in a teaching mode and you have a student who's attitude is not in accord with the rules and ethincs of the class, then sometimes you must adjust his attitude just enough to bring him back in line. That's not ego either. That's disipline.

Ego is if you can't stand to let anyone beat you no matter how good they are or, if you get you jollies by taking the new students and pounding the crap out of them to show how good you are.

I have one rule when training fighters either with pads or with SCA weapons. I'll go as hard as you want and hit as hard as you want. In a Tournament it's game on.

At the Flowfighting Seminar, it was one of the most ego free places I've had the priviledge of playing in a long time. There were TONS of varying degrees of Martial Capability there and every did a great job of keeping control. The end of the day was almost a Bull in the Ring session. Since there was no prize on the line, and everyone knew each other for the most part, it made for a very relaxed atmosphere. No one wanted to hurt anyone and there were lots of smiles and laughs from both the crowd as well as the two poor fellows in the ring.

I don't know if this helps any. I kind of got otf the path a bit but then again, I do that a lot.

[Chuck Kechter]

This might be tangential to the discussion... But I wrote this article a couple of years ago (with permission from both Coaches --Blauer and Sonnon)... Maybe there's something in it that might help...

http://www.chuckkechter.com/Performance%20Anxiety.html

[Ryan Murdock]

Dale,

That was excellent. Really great post.

[Aengus]

Thanks Coach.

[Aengus]

Chuck, That was a great article. Lot's of good stuff in there.

[Chuck Kechter]

Thanks Dale!

[Coach Larson]

Dale,

Great response. Thank you.

The mental/emotional aspect of fighting (fencing) is a complex equation that I am still trying to figure out. It seems many times that attempting to objectively analyze my own emotions and state of mind is the most difficult part.

When I am working with beginners or less experience fencers there is really no issue of competition. I always try to carefully gauge my speed and intent to be at a level just slightly above where they are at. Often I will let them score touches on me on purpose if they maintain good form so they can both gain confidence and get a kinestetic sense of good technique.

Its a little different when I fence someone at my level or above. Sometimes it just depends on what happend earlier in the day. If it has been a particularily stressful day and I go in and fence poorly again these guys I sometimes find myself in a downward spiral of frustration. Its days like these that fencing no longer seems like a recreational stress reliever but instead a stress multiplier.

I should also note that when I am fencing poorly my frustration is directed inward at myself. My opponent is just doing what he should be doing by fencing well. I think my anger stems from the fact that my opponent has exposed a weakness, an inablility on my part. I guess what I need to learn to do better is not get down on myself when this happens but try to reframe the experience into a positive opportunity to find ways to improve on those weaknesses. But sometimes this is easier to say that to do . . .

[peterng25]

Hi Jeffrey!
This may sound banal to someone not too familiar with CST, but I really think the way you're going will lead to some profound insight that will benefit the tribe. Going against resistance as a fully formed CST athlete (such as you) is, IMHO, the best way to produce great results.

[Ryan Murdock]

Excellent thread, guys.



I guess what I need to learn to do better is not get down on myself when this happens but try to reframe the experience into a positive opportunity to find ways to improve on those weaknesses.

Jeff,

Do you by any chance have a copy of that old series on the Flow State Performance Spiral by Coach Sonnon? I'm not sure if its still available, or if its been retired to the vault.

I suspect from what you've written here that you'd benefit tremendously from instituting a recovery process for when you perceive things are going down the tubes.

[Coach Larson]

Do you by any chance have a copy of that old series on the Flow State Performance Spiral by Coach Sonnon? I'm not sure if its still available, or if its been retired to the vault.



I could not find it in the RMAX online store.

[Ryan Murdock]

Hey Jeff,

I'll try to give you some ideas in brief that you can experiment with at your next session and report back.

I'm a little swamped at the moment (what else is new??) so please remind me if I don't post here in the next couple days. My apologies for the delay.

[Aengus]

When I am working with beginners or less experience fencers there is really no issue of competition. I always try to carefully gauge my speed and intent to be at a level just slightly above where they are at. Often I will let them score touches on me on purpose if they maintain good form so they can both gain confidence and get a kinestetic sense of good technique.

Jeff,
Sounds like you are doing the right thing there.


Its a little different when I fence someone at my level or above. Sometimes it just depends on what happend earlier in the day. If it has been a particularily stressful day and I go in and fence poorly again these guys I sometimes find myself in a downward spiral of frustration. Its days like these that fencing no longer seems like a recreational stress reliever but instead a stress multiplier.

Brother, sometimes you get the bear and sometime the bear gets you. It happens. You can’t let that eat you up. Trust me on this. One weekend you have a great day in a tournament and NO-ONE can touch you. The next week, it’s like you first time to hold a sword an your not sure if you have it in the correct hand. Use this time as a physical conditioning and just try and focus on the endurance. For me, it seems that after a little while, things become a bit clearer and the noise dampens down some.. BUT, I don’t spar as long. I knock off early. I do this when a). I start fatiguing quickly and b),start making rookie mistakes or technique gets weak. There is no shame in this.


I should also note that when I am fencing poorly my frustration is directed inward at myself. My opponent is just doing what he should be doing by fencing well. I think my anger stems from the fact that my opponent has exposed a weakness, an inablility on my part. I guess what I need to learn to do better is not get down on myself when this happens but try to reframe the experience into a positive opportunity to find ways to improve on those weaknesses. But sometimes this is easier to say that to do . . .

Remember Jeff, Martial arts/Fencing/SCA Fighting is FUN! It can be one of the more frustrating, time-consuming, bash-your-head-up against-the-wall-to try-and-teach-why-we-do-this life styles/pastimes/hobbies but remember this. In the words of one of my SCA heroes John Bearkiller,”We get to hit our friends with a stick!!! And not have to worry about going to jail!”

We all have ups and downs. Just remember to try and have fun doing this. You get a more positive experience fighting when you enjoy yourself. Enjoy teaching and enjoy fighting an opponent of equal or greater level. My little thing that helps me is: You may whip my ass, but by God, you are going to regret the kill you earned. :D

One well place, well timed shot, the kind that makes him scream like the lead singer of an ‘80’s hair band can get you a long way!

[Aengus]

Flow State Performance Spiral by Coach Sonnon? I'm not sure if its still available, or if its been retired to the vault.


Coach, how is that different than "The Three-Dimensional Performance Pyramid"

[Ryan Murdock]

Coach, how is that different than "The Three-Dimensional Performance Pyramid"

Dale,

It deals with the top of the pyramid - Mental and Emotional Preparedness (MEP).

More to come, soon as i get a bit of time to write a loooong post...

[Aengus]

Looking forward to it!

[Ryan Murdock]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the delay. I've got a couple big projects on my desk at the moment, that's been eating all my time...

I don't have time to write a huge article on the theory, but i'll give ya something you can try in your next session.

Basically, when we're talking about accessing flow state - and it's opposite, when things go down the tubes - we refer to this as the Upward Performance Spiral and the Downward Performance Spiral.

The characteristics of the Downward Performance Spiral are:

narrowing vision - everything seems to close in, and to feel closed in - tunnel vision, in other words
your breathing is inhalation- focused
and you're maybe holding your breath - sound familiar from the CST breath mastery scale?
negative self-talk - "this sucks, shit i missed again, he got me again", etc - you're stuck in Fantasizing (see quadrants of awareness diagram)
and a perception of time as speeding up - if your vision is normally able to take in 30 beats per minute (a totally arbitrary number chosen for example purposes), you suddenly find you're taking in 10 - so you're missing what happens in all the beats in between. As a result, things seem to be moving faster than what you can handle.When in the midst of the Downward Performance Spiral you begin to feel overwhelmed. If you allow it to gather momentum, you'll be sucked down the tubes faster and faster.

The Upward Performance Spiral, on the other hand, is characterized by:

broad vision - you're Attending (see the quadrants of awareness diagram), which also means that you're using your peripheral vision and are therefore able to register movement sooner - your vision is wide and open, and you seem to see everything simultaneously
your breathing is exhalation-focused
you're Attending rather than Fantasizing, so your awareness is properly placed for the task at hand and therefore no negative self-talk (neg self talk is a physical cue that you're in the wrong state or quadrant)
there's a perception of time slowing down - you're able to see 60 beats per minute (all those degrees, even more as compared to 30) and so things may even appear to be in slow motion - you feel like you have all the time in the world.Most people have experienced both states at some point in their lives, though maybe not on the mats (if you haven't felt the downward spiral we can induce it - more on that in a sec). The upward spiral is the state of mastery - flow - and is characterized by euphoria. As Coach Sonnon has said, you're in a fight but for some reason you may actually feel great, like you're having fun. It sounds twisted, i know, but that's what happens when you tap into flow. You can probably see that it's possible to do this, to feel good while sparring, when among friends. It's exhuberant play. But I've actually experienced this "on the mean streets" (:rolleyes: ) when attacked by 3 guys in China. I actually burst out laughing when they were trying to hit me. But that's another story, and if i go much further Joe's going to jump in here and cue up my theme-song (every time I start a story with "one time when I was in the middle of Mongolia" he makes fun of me... yeah, i know, it hurts...)

Anyway, to get back to your practical exercise. Now that you understand these states, what you must do is to begin noticing when you're entering the downward performance spiral and to create a recovery process that you can implement to immediately put you back on the upward spiral.

One great example is the slipping drill from the Fisticuffs series. You both glove up, and partner #1 begins to launch a flurry of blows at partner #2's chest and midsection (we'll keep away from the head for now, for safety). #2 is only allowed to slip the blows as best he can. That's all. Yes, of course, some will get through. If #2 isn't feeling like a pincushion then #1 isn't doing his job. #1's task is to push his partner down into the spiral. When the coach calls "switch", #2 immediately, with no bound flow, changes roles and starts to pepper #1. During this process the goal of the partner doing the striking is to push their teammate into the downward performance spiral (and also to notice the cues that this is happening - because in a fight that's your cue to turn on the juice). The receiving teammate's goal is to pay attention to the physiological cues that they're going down the tubes, and to notice them earlier and earlier. Their other goal is to immediately implement their recovery process and turn the tide when the coach calls "switch".

Make sense? You can use this drill (it'll carry over to your fencing just fine because it's teaching you the cues), or you can create something fencing-related to explore it if you prefer.

The recovery process that you will implement involves three steps:

Breath - exhale from the diaphragm, over and over - you must switch back to exhalation-focused breathing (inhalation is a trigger for the downward performance spiral - see the breath mastery scale - it starts you down the slope). Exhaling as you fire blows, and as you absorb, is a good way to maintain this and not to start down the slope.
Depolarize your solar and lunar plexus - start moving, use an hourglass motion perhaps, but whatever you do, keep your core from being locked down and immobile
Move - get your arms and legs going again, keep moving (as you get sucked down your limbs will stay in, you'll turtle and cover - you've gotta get them flying back out there again)If you implement this process as soon as you notice the signs that you're being sucked down, it'll start you on your way back up. Your goal is for that to happen sooner and sooner, until you aren't getting sucked down at all. The breath is the key to all this, because that's the first opportunity to intervene and break the vicious cycle.

One more point. If you're working with students who are less skilled than you and they aren't able to induce the downward performance cycle in a drill, then modify the drill. You might need to start with your back turned, or have two of them pepper you at once (if you look at the intro clips of my RMAX Powered Bujinkan Vol 1 DVD you can see a brief second of this two-on-one variation of the slipping drill).

Make sense?

If no, please throw in your questions. If yes, please start working with this and report back with your results.

Good luck!

[Coach Larson]

Thanks so much for this Ryan.
I will digest this over the weekend and try to drill it in class next week.
I'll let you know how it goes.

We recently had an influx of new beginners so we have a real mix of experience/ability level.
We only have about a month or so of fencing that will be possible here as we will start shipping back equipment soon.
The good news is that this means I will be coming home shortly after that.

[Scott Sonnon]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the delay. I've got a couple big projects on my desk at the moment, that's been eating all my time...

I don't have time to write a huge article on the theory, but i'll give ya something you can try in your next session.

Basically, when we're talking about accessing flow state - and it's opposite, when things go down the tubes - we refer to this as the Upward Performance Spiral and the Downward Performance Spiral.

The characteristics of the Downward Performance Spiral are:

narrowing vision - everything seems to close in, and to feel closed in - tunnel vision, in other words
your breathing is inhalation- focused
and you're maybe holding your breath - sound familiar from the CST breath mastery scale?
negative self-talk - "this sucks, shit i missed again, he got me again", etc - you're stuck in Fantasizing (see quadrants of awareness diagram)
and a perception of time as speeding up - if your vision is normally able to take in 30 beats per minute (a totally arbitrary number chosen for example purposes), you suddenly find you're taking in 10 - so you're missing what happens in all the beats in between. As a result, things seem to be moving faster than what you can handle.When in the midst of the Downward Performance Spiral you begin to feel overwhelmed. If you allow it to gather momentum, you'll be sucked down the tubes faster and faster.

The Upward Performance Spiral, on the other hand, is characterized by:

broad vision - you're Attending (see the quadrants of awareness diagram), which also means that you're using your peripheral vision and are therefore able to register movement sooner - your vision is wide and open, and you seem to see everything simultaneously
your breathing is exhalation-focused
you're Attending rather than Fantasizing, so your awareness is properly placed for the task at hand and therefore no negative self-talk (neg self talk is a physical cue that you're in the wrong state or quadrant)
there's a perception of time slowing down - you're able to see 60 beats per minute (all those degrees, even more as compared to 30) and so things may even appear to be in slow motion - you feel like you have all the time in the world.Most people have experienced both states at some point in their lives, though maybe not on the mats (if you haven't felt the downward spiral we can induce it - more on that in a sec). The upward spiral is the state of mastery - flow - and is characterized by euphoria. As Coach Sonnon has said, you're in a fight but for some reason you may actually feel great, like you're having fun. It sounds twisted, i know, but that's what happens when you tap into flow. You can probably see that it's possible to do this, to feel good while sparring, when among friends. It's exhuberant play. But I've actually experienced this "on the mean streets" (:rolleyes: ) when attacked by 3 guys in China. I actually burst out laughing when they were trying to hit me. But that's another story, and if i go much further Joe's going to jump in here and cue up my theme-song (every time I start a story with "one time when I was in the middle of Mongolia" he makes fun of me... yeah, i know, it hurts...)

Anyway, to get back to your practical exercise. Now that you understand these states, what you must do is to begin noticing when you're entering the downward performance spiral and to create a recovery process that you can implement to immediately put you back on the upward spiral.

One great example is the slipping drill from the Fisticuffs series. You both glove up, and partner #1 begins to launch a flurry of blows at partner #2's chest and midsection (we'll keep away from the head for now, for safety). #2 is only allowed to slip the blows as best he can. That's all. Yes, of course, some will get through. If #2 isn't feeling like a pincushion then #1 isn't doing his job. #1's task is to push his partner down into the spiral. When the coach calls "switch", #2 immediately, with no bound flow, changes roles and starts to pepper #1. During this process the goal of the partner doing the striking is to push their teammate into the downward performance spiral (and also to notice the cues that this is happening - because in a fight that's your cue to turn on the juice). The receiving teammate's goal is to pay attention to the physiological cues that they're going down the tubes, and to notice them earlier and earlier. Their other goal is to immediately implement their recovery process and turn the tide when the coach calls "switch".

Make sense? You can use this drill (it'll carry over to your fencing just fine because it's teaching you the cues), or you can create something fencing-related to explore it if you prefer.

The recovery process that you will implement involves three steps:

Breath - exhale from the diaphragm, over and over - you must switch back to exhalation-focused breathing (inhalation is a trigger for the downward performance spiral - see the breath mastery scale - it starts you down the slope). Exhaling as you fire blows, and as you absorb, is a good way to maintain this and not to start down the slope.
Depolarize your solar and lunar plexus - start moving, use an hourglass motion perhaps, but whatever you do, keep your core from being locked down and immobile
Move - get your arms and legs going again, keep moving (as you get sucked down your limbs will stay in, you'll turtle and cover - you've gotta get them flying back out there again)If you implement this process as soon as you notice the signs that you're being sucked down, it'll start you on your way back up. Your goal is for that to happen sooner and sooner, until you aren't getting sucked down at all. The breath is the key to all this, because that's the first opportunity to intervene and break the vicious cycle.

One more point. If you're working with students who are less skilled than you and they aren't able to induce the downward performance cycle in a drill, then modify the drill. You might need to start with your back turned, or have two of them pepper you at once (if you look at the intro clips of my RMAX Powered Bujinkan Vol 1 DVD you can see a brief second of this two-on-one variation of the slipping drill).

Make sense?

If no, please throw in your questions. If yes, please start working with this and report back with your results.

Good luck!

It's just unbelievable how much you freely give of your time and expertise. Thank you, Coach!