Learning Swipes

[Nonomori]

In my experiments with Clubbells, I have probably spent more time doing Armpit Casts than anything else. I just like the feel of the stretch that they provide. I particularly like Drumming, and frankly I am a little puzzled by the caution in the CST book about it being "one of the most challenging exercises due to the HIGH coordination level as well as the great demand for muscle control in alternating tension actions asymmetrically." With 10-lb. Clubbells, it doesn't strike me as all that difficult to control.

The biggest thing I have to be careful about when doing the Armpit Casts is making sure that I don't jam my lumbar spine when moving into Back Position. When I first got my Clubbells, I had not yet fully recovered from having jammed my spine a couple months earlier (from doing something thoughtless in a choreography class), and this actually turned out to be helpful, since it forced me to make absolutely sure that I kept my pelvis tilted and my abs and glutes tight. (I noticed it immediately if I let my attention lapse.)

This morning I thought I would see what happened if I tried to do a set of 30 Swipes with my 10-lb. Clubbells. I was a little frightened at the idea of losing control of the momentum moving from Torch position down to Back Position, so I (think I) cheated: I allowed myself a slight dip just as I hit Back Position. This probably also made it a bit easier than it should have been to explode out of back position, but I was mostly concerned with three things: (1) safety, (2) confidence building, and (3) some idea of how to expect the feel of the exercise to evolve as it moved into the later reps. (I had never before attempted even half that many reps in a single set of a Clubbell exercise, except with basic Swings.)

I noticed that after about a half-a-dozen reps I got pretty well locked-in with the Clubbells tracking together. Then, right around rep 24, my form began to deteriorate as my shoulders became tired and it became increasingly difficult to explode out of back position. A few reps later my grip started to give way, until by rep 30 I was mostly hanging onto the knob.

All in all, it was a pretty interesting experiment. I think next time I will go for a set of 20 as I concentrate on keeping my core activated and get rid of the dip.

Unless someone who (unlike myself) knows how this stuff is really supposed to work gives me a better plan…

[dave_rusin]

Brent,

The other day I came home from work, took my 15’s outside and proceeded to crank out 105 swipes. Of course my grip was on fire for the next five minutes. Might have even been able to do a few more, but I was starting to lose form. I don’t say that to brag since I’m sure there are others that could blow me away with that or any other exercise. And I’m really not all that strong, especially compared to some of the other monsters around here. But I bring it up to make a point.

Before that day the best I had managed was about 35 reps or so with that exercise. I had tripled my previous max and didn’t even intend to do so when I went outside that day. I just figured on doing a few “normal” sets. But as I progressed through the exercise I just realized that I could crank out some more, so I kept going. Before I knew it I was at 100 reps and thought “just do five more”.

What was different?

Besides being fresh with plenty of physical and mental energy, I really had my groove on that day. I concentrated on being breathed by the movement. Through any torso compression I allowed an exhale and through any expansion an inhale. This method does wonders for endurance. I focused on muscular contraction only at the moments necessary. With ballistic Clubbell exercises such as the Swipe you simply must allow for moments of relaxation at key points. This is what is meant by dynamic strength… using appropriate muscular contraction at appropriate times through a movement pattern. Muscular contraction at inappropriate times is just wasted energy. I focused on keeping good postural alignment, driving the motion of the CB with the hips and utilizing the momentum to carry through the reps.

Coming out of the back position remember that you are pulling up and forward simultaneously to create the arced path coupled with a sharp contraction of the abs to explode forward.

My best advice would be to work on the exercises with conscious focus on your breathing (be breathed by the movement), always keeping good posture, and becoming aware of when precisely muscles need to be contracted and when they can relax (relatively) through the movement.

Hope this helps.

Happy and healthy training!!


:D

[Nonomori]

Yeah, it's become very obvious that a high degree of coordination is required for these exercises. I suppose that's a big part of why Clubbells are so much fun.

Thanks for the advice.

[Nonomori]

This evening's experiment was 90 Swipes with the 10-lb. Clubbells in 10 minutes, broken into 10 sets of 9: 1 set per minute with the few seconds in between taken up with shaking out the arms and/or doing wrist circles or wrist/finger stretches.

My form was...not good. According to the section on Density Training in the CST book (p169), "If you detect form about to deteriorate, stop at that rep scheme, but continue out and finish your total volume". I can't figure out how to apply that in my case, though, because my form wasn't really deteriorating within a set; it was just bad throughout. Maybe that means I wasn't ready for the experiment at all. But the only way to develop good form is to practice, right?

The only thing I noticed that really made the sets progressively more difficult was my loss of grip. By the last set, I could only maintain a decent grip for the first five reps, and after that my hands began slipping onto the knob.

I encountered a variety of form problems, but the one which seemed to be the most consistent was that in Back Position my right Clubbell dropped significantly lower than my left Clubbell. Probably the second-most common problem I noticed was a tendency to occasionally pull the Clubbells toward my centerline when exploding out of Back Position.

On the positive side, I was able to consistently tighten my core in time for the arch into Back Position, so that my back never felt endangered, and indeed felt nicely (comfortably) worked by the end. On all but two reps, I avoided the dip I permitted myself on my prior 30-rep experiment. (By "dip" I mean a bend at the hips when moving into Back Position.) On those two occasions my swing had too much forward momentum. More often I had too much backward momentum, so that a few times I had to take a slight step back. I tried to minimize bending at the knee when arriving at Back Position, attempting instead to absorb the momentum by thrusting the hips forward, but I frequently erred on the side of caution and allowed the knees to give a bit more than I wanted.

For breathing, I ended my exhalation (forcefully) at the point of arrival into Back Position, I drove out of Back Position during the Control Pause, and I inhaled during the backward part of the Swing as I sat back into my hip crease (straightening my back) and allowed the momentum of the Clubbells to open my chest. This seemed to work well.

Note that my understanding of form is largely derived from guesswork. If I am misunderstanding or misapplying any of the CST principles, I hope that someone will correct me.

And if someone has a specific recommendation about what I should really be doing with Swipes at this point, I would very much like to hear it.

[rbibbs]

Somewhat simplistically Brent... I'm just making these discoveries myself... if you're counting reps, then definitely the best form will give you the highest count, you're distributing the effort ideally. I hope we're not supposed to worry about "grabbing the knob"; often as not, that's all that's keeping them from flying through the living-room paneling. :twisted:

Rick

[Dan Chomycia]

The dip you keep refering to is absorbing the shock or labeled Shock Absorbtion. So that is not a form problem but a performance goal. Of course I say that with the caveat that I cannot see first-hand your form over the net.

You should work on your form first before deciding to do more repetitions of any exercise, because you could be doing trauma to your joints, you won't feel it yet because your using the 10's. One of the quickest ways of testing your form is to try it on a heavier Clubbell.


You can't lie to the Bruiser!

Was written on the back of the T-Shirt given out at the Arnold Classic for trying to Swipe the Bruiser.

With more weight your form has to be on or you will be given instant feed back on how it is insufficient.

To get better form without a heavier weight you could do the exercises that make up the Swipe, singularly pretending you are using heavier weight focusing only on the form.

Good luck,

[Nonomori]

On Saturday, I tried another 90 Swipes with the 10-lb. Clubbells, this time broken into 9 sets of 10 (one set per minute). As far as I could tell, my form was much improved. On Thursday and Friday, I had done a few reps with the 5-lb. Clubbells with an eye toward getting a better handle on my form, and I discovered that if I focused on my left arm, it had a tendency to drop lower in Back Position than my right arm - the reverse of what I experienced during my Wednesday experiment. So I don't think I've got a significant flexibility or tension issue; it's just a matter of where my attention is placed. But apparently not a whole lot of attention is required, because on Saturday I had little trouble with symmetry.

I also improved on the "dip" thing, I think. I was quite aggressive with thrusting the hips forward (and clamping my glutes) in Back Position, and by allowing the knees to bend just enough to maintain balance, I was still able to prevent any noticeable jamming of the spine. I found that if I allow my knees to bend more, then I have more difficulty maintaining length in my spine during the hyperextension; it works better to visualize a single taut-but-lengthened curve all the way from my heels to the top of my head.

Coach Chomycia, I appreciate the need to work on form first, but I am still puzzled about how best to do that. I have found that by using the 5-lb. Clubbells, I can get a feel for the movement, but it seems to apply mostly to overall coordination than to technical nuances. When I have used the 15-lb. Clubbells, I have too often felt like I have come very close to injuring myself. No doubt that qualifies as "instant feedback" on insufficient form, but it's not the kind of feedback I want. I like using the 10-lb. Clubbells, because I feel like I'm getting good feedback, but I am not so afraid of injuring myself. If I reduce the volume of my workouts, will that reduce (the potential for) joint (or other) trauma? My form still has to be grooved, and that means making adjustments from doing it wrong. My own sense is that my current volume is about right, since the number of reps gives me a chance to make adjustments within a set and begin to establish a groove, while the number of sets allows me to work on finding that groove again while the memory is still fresh. (This assumes, of course, that it is a good groove.) However, that's just my impression, and I do not trust it.

I'll say this: I was surprised to note that Saturday's workout was considerably easier than Wednesday's. I don't know how much of that can be attributed to physical (neurological) adaptation, and how much to an improvement of form, but I know I could have done at least another set without too much trouble, and I would not have wanted to try that on Wednesday.

One thing about form I want to check involves the separation of the Clubbells in Back Position. When Drumming, I have tried to bring my elbow as close to my ear as possible, so that a Clubbell in Back Position cannot be seen from the front. However, with the Swipes, it is easier to move the line outward a bit so that the complete arc of the swing can move through a sagittal plane. Are either of those approaches "wrong"?

[JasonE]

Brent -

I'm fairly new to Swipes too, but I found a means to groove the technique that works for me.

I spent some time working these movements in this sequence:
Jerk
Armpit Cast
Swing
Shield Cast
Wrist Cast

The first 3 moves got me ready for Swipes, the Shield Casts worked my rotational control of the CBs, and the Wrist Cast did a lot for my grip endurance. Eventually I added a set of Swipes, then started adding more sets of Swipes and dropped the Wrist Cast.

After just a couple of sessions, I was ready to start a Swipe Density program. I jumped right from doing 5 x 7s (35 reps) to doing 40 x 5s (200 reps) with Swipes, without losing technique.

When I move on to the 15s, I will go back to the basic components of the Swipe until I have proper control and technique. Once I am comfortable using the heavier CBs with the basic movements, I will start working on combinations like the Swipe again.

I hope this helps!

[Nonomori]

I've had my 10-lb. Clubbells for a number of months now, and during that period I played around with Swings, Armpit Casts, and Shield Casts (along with a few other exercises, especially Shoulder Casts and Backward Circles). I felt reasonably ready to tackle the Swipe.

The idea of going back to components before stepping up to the 15-lb. Clubbells makes sense to me, but now that I think about it, I'm wondering why wait? Even though I'm concentrating on Swipes right now, I'm attempting to groove the Mill by attempting a few daily Inward Pendulums and Shield Casts with the 15-lb. Clubbells, and the only reason I can think of not to add a few reps of more Swipe-related exercises is the problem of recovery. But if it's just a few reps...

Hmm.

[Dan Chomycia]

Nonomori,
Form & Safety go hand in hand,

Coach Chomycia, I appreciate the need to work on form first, but I am still puzzled about how best to do that.


To get better form without a heavier weight you could do the exercises that make up the Swipe, singularly pretending you are using heavier weight focusing only on the form.

Focusing only on the form means take the individual exercises and breaking them down into each performance goal and attending to that performance goal as they are outlined in the book or video.

I was unclear in my suggestion to use heavier weight, and sometimes forget that people are very sensitive to risking injury. For that I apologize. Keep in mind though that I try to talk to everyone and often speak in general terms for everyone's benefit.

Here is a detailed and safe way to check your form with a heavier weight,

Take the most basic exercise from the Combination Routine, and add your weight this case it will be your 15# clubbell.

This is a 1 rep event which means, do ONLY 1 rep to see how it feels then put it down, go immediately to your exercise weight(10# Clubbell), and do only 1 rep.

You should notice the difference and allow your body to make adjustments based on that feedback.
Then you should do ONLY 1 rep with your 10# pretending that it is the 15# that way you'll begin to understand and help groove the skill deeper.

Once you get this way of combing through your form down then move on to the next increment which could be the next exercise or doing the above protocol with 2 Clubbells instead of one.


I have found that by using the 5-lb. Clubbells®, I can get a feel for the movement, but it seems to apply mostly to overall coordination than to technical nuances.

This is because if you can use the 15's for anything, it is too easy to cheat your form with 5's, they only way to get the nuances is to either imagine heavy weight , or actually use heavier weight(See Above).


My form still has to be grooved, and that means making adjustments from doing it wrong.

If you still feel that your form has not developed, then you should NOT be doing combination routines, for high reps.

Like every new exercise you must get your form down, BEFORE adding complexity and lots of reps.

Many people with any form of exercise neglect to realize this, thinking that the "Workout Effect" is more important, and as a result end up endangering themselves when they use higher reps(overuse injuries) or Too heavy of a weight(immediate injury).

To be safe in your workouts my friend you need to do things thoroughly and incrementally, not high rep with low weight.

If you have any more questions or concerns feel free to contact me,
My information is below.

[Nonomori]

Take the most basic exercise from the Combination Routine, and add your weight this case it will be your 15# Clubbell.

This is a 1 rep event which means, do ONLY 1 rep to see how it feels then put it down, go immediately to your exercise weight(10# Clubbell), and do only 1 rep.

You should notice the difference and allow your body to make adjustments based on that feedback.
Then you should do ONLY 1 rep with your 10# pretending that it is the 15# that way you'll begin to understand and help groove the skill deeper.

Once you get this way of combing through your form down then move on to the next increment which could be the next exercise or doing the above protocol with 2 Clubbells instead of one.

OK, this makes a whole lot of sense to me now. And after reading the progression I just found described (http://circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1612) by Coach Szolek over in the OCS forum, I think I'll back off and for my next workout I'll try something like 5 sets (each arm) of 1 rep with the 15# followed by 5 reps with the 10#, one arm at a time, Inward Pendulums and Arm Casts separately rather than combined. I'm disinclined to limit my 10# reps more than that because frankly I think my form is already pretty good when broken down that far.

For tonight, I just tried three sets of alternating 15# and 10# singles, and the only problem I encountered was some barking from my triceps on the 15# Arm Casts. (I am not fully recovered from my last workout, and I probably shouldn't even have tried doing that much, since I'm scheduled for an introductory training session with an RKC instructor tomorrow night and I want to be reasonably fresh.)

One thing I immediately noticed (perhaps putting the lie to my claim of reasonably good form) when going back and forth from the 15# to the 10#, was that I tend to include a bit more of a Head Cast component in my Arm Casts with the 10# Clubbell. (In other words, I begin straightening my elbow before I start to bring my elbow down.) As with the issue of how close to the median plane the Clubbells should come in Back Position, I don't know which method is "right" or "better" - or whether it's just a matter of personal preference.

I appreciate the careful response, Coach Chomycia. I don't really believe in shortcuts, and I am quite willing to do things "thoroughly and incrementally". I've just been having difficulty understanding what that means.

In fact, I've finally decided that despite my lack of interest in OCS, I'm going to give Coach Szolek's book a try. It is now on order, and hopefully it will answer some of my more anal questions.

[Nonomori]

Well, my OCS Training Manual (http://www.clubbell.tv/clubbellsport.html) arrived. It is concisely written, with much good information in it. I have no right to complain, but I must confess that I was disappointed not to see more information about Phases II and III. A copy of Coach Sonnon's article on Phase IV (http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/18/sonnon1.html) is included, and there was a lot of good stuff on Phase I. But I found nothing comparable to Coach Szolek's advice in the OCS forum on Progress to a heavier Clubbell (http://circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1612).

All the same, I feel like I'm making good progress (http://circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1788) and my confidence is up. I'll be quite surprised if I'm not able to meet CST certification standards by the summer.