corde lisse and the six degrees of freedom

[wildman]

i'm currently working on furthering my understanding of cord lisse (the circus art of smooth rope). much like clubbells, rope pulls through the hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corde_lisse

in the context of the six degrees of freedom. im seeking to develop my own Flow fit esque model of 6 (or so) actions that can be repeated for time to further my understanding the 6 DOF and of the fusion of the strength, mobility, and endurance neccesary for this art.

i have a rough skeleton of a plan worked out, and its working well from an engineering problem solving perspective. it needs work obviously, that's is why i'm asking the community to help me better understand the 6DOF.

so i guess what i'm looking to do is open this up for discussion on the six degrees of freedom. links to other posts that relate to the 6DOF, and the usual sage writing and thoughtful views that are a mainstay of this forum, on the topic of the 6 DOF.

[wildman]

here is a clip of some corde lisse and fabric to give people an idea of what arial is all about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6hpB6AwppuE

these are two of LA's raddest performers from the Eye of Newt circus group

[Coach Tran]

Mark,

You and I are on the same page. There is a female personal trainer at my gym who is teaching this right now. Best of luck with your research and practice.

[Joseph David]

Mark,
I really enjoyed the rope and fabric work.

I'm working on a project that encorporates the 6DOF also. Most movement have 2 or three degrees of freedom. I think of the primary movement as the degree I assign to that KC. For example, a quad hop is primarily surging, to enter or exit the move might be heaving. I'd be interested in your skeleton of movement you have worked out.

[wildman]

nice to know we are on similar pages coach tran. a pleasure to have you chime in.

instructor joseph. i'll post the skeleton that i have worked out so far. it may not make much sense immediatly because the language of cst movement and cirque movement don't have alot in common. i'll try to figure out how to shoot some video and post it.

• Heaving (moving up and down)
• Swaying (moving left and right)
• Surging (moving forward and backward)
• Pitching (tilting up and down)
• Yawing (turning left and right)
• Rolling (tilting side to side)

question?
do we consider climbing to be heaving.
does surging only take place in regard to ground reaction forces.

why isn't a quad hop heaving, why is it surging?

can someone help me define what category the movements of flow fit are

example: trinity squat = heaving. leg swoop = ??

[wildman]

basic skeleton

Climb – foot lock – (add experimental pose) - side split – vertical slide – rotate out with a foot lock pistol.
climb - box prep - box - box drop
Climb – double foot fall - climb out
Climb – spider invert – hip key – knee drop – side planche – foot lock
Climb – prep diaper roll – back out of it.
climb - prep star drop. back out of it.
Repeat opposite side.

i'm trying to alternate a difficult series, with a less difficult series.

this week i'm running it for 2set of 7 min with a 15 min break between sets. i'm adding one min every week until i get two 20 min. i run this cycle to days a week. on tue and thurs, which is not optimal for recovery, but that is when we have practice.

after i run the series, i work GTG on variations and basic understanding of different tricks.

[Joseph David]

• Heaving (moving up and down)
• Swaying (moving left and right)
• Surging (moving forward and backward)
• Pitching (tilting up and down)
• Yawing (turning left and right)
• Rolling (tilting side to side)

question?
do we consider climbing to be heaving.
does surging only take place in regard to ground reaction forces.

why isn't a quad hop heaving, why is it surging?

can someone help me define what category the movements of flow fit are

example: trinity squat = heaving. leg swoop = ??

Great questions, first we must establish a reference to the movement. As movement can and does change in the enviroment in which they evolve, the reference is the body in anatomical position.

Climbing would be primarily heaving with a surging componont. Pull-ups are heaving with the arms.

Surging is the reference to forward pressure, to move forward and backward relitive to anatomical position. Have you ever seen a lizard do "pushups" on a rock wall. That is surging, the reference plane as shifted yet the the reference to anatomical stays constant.

Trinty squat- heaving
quad hop- surging
legswoop- yawing, swaying, surging,rolling
mountain climber- surging, yawing, heaving
springing tripod-yawing, swaying, surging
spinal rock- rolling

Hope this helps:)

[wildman]

. the reference is the body in anatomical position.

this helps my understanding quite a bit.


]Climbing would be primarily heaving with a surging componont.

this seems very accurate in the new light of anatomical position reference.


Surging is the reference to forward pressure, to move forward and backward relitive to anatomical position.

i was viewing all of the 6 DOF on an xyz cartisian coordination system with the body changing posistion so that that up, down, forward and back remained constant in relation to the ground/z plane. my thinking was too simple.


]the reference plane as shifted yet the the reference to anatomical stays constant.

so if i understand correctly the spine is the x axis and it can rotate freely in all directions and the coordinate system moves with it. up is always up/above you head. even if you are upside down. i think


]Trinty squat- heaving
quad hop- surging
legswoop- yawing, swaying, surging,rolling
mountain climber- surging, yawing, heaving
springing tripod-yawing, swaying, surging
spinal rock- rolling

)

very helpful.

now i just need to think on this for... awhile

[shadow]

Trinty squat- heaving
quad hop- surging
legswoop- yawing, swaying, surging,rolling
mountain climber- surging, yawing, heaving
springing tripod-yawing, swaying, surging
spinal rock- rolling

Hope this helps:)

Well if Flowfit works in all 6 degrees.... in this breakdown, what has happened to "pitching"??

[stevenhogg]

Well if Flowfit works in all 6 degrees.... in this breakdown, what has happened to "pitching"??Wouldn't that be the down dog to up dog press?

[shadow]

Yeah, sounds right... I think

[shadow]

Wait....

I can see how all the other movements work within the context of Flowfit (to a degree)....

however I can't wrap my head around "rolling".

If rolling is tilting side to side then how is a spinal rock then rolling? It seems more like pitching??

[Joseph David]

Well if Flowfit works in all 6 degrees.... in this breakdown, what has happened to "pitching"??
Whoops my mistake
plank dog press- pitching
spinal rock - pitching


sorry about that guys

[shadow]

If that is the case.... then where does rolling fit into flowfit???

ahhh... is it the spinal twist?

[Joseph David]

If that is the case.... then where does rolling fit into flowfit???

ahhh... is it the spinal twist?

I would say the tilting action in the leg swoop

[shadow]

Are there other clearer examples of rolling that you could give?

I'm having trouble visualising how it works... the others I can largely get, but that one is eluding me.

I'm thinking it's like the side spinal bends from beginner level intu-flow?

This thread has completely opened me up to investigating the way these degrees work on the body and I want to keep following this to 'grok' it.

[Joseph David]

Are there other clearer examples of rolling that you could give?
Yes, a lateral shoulder roll, twisting spinal arch



I'm thinking it's like the side spinal bends from beginner level Intu-Flow®?
Yes the lateral bendinging action as it moves around the centerline of the body.

[shadow]

It seems like it might be the most challenging degree to add strength type training to?

Would I be correct in assuming that I would be compensating for this missing action in my current 4x7 by using the kinetic chain from tumbleweed (childs pose -> plough -> rear long arm roll -> childs pose)?

As well as, of course, the side bends from ageless mobility.

[Joseph David]

There are two basic ways to access this movement. From plough, the shoulders are the fulcrum and the pelvis leads, or the pelvis is the fulcrum and the shoulders lead. Then those combine
into the lateral shoulder roll.

[wildman]

can someone smarter than me break down all of the actions of flow fit again based on this additional information.

[wildman]

in retrospect and after careful review, i have determined that if you pick any 6 movements in corde lisse then you will most likely hit all 6 degrees of freedom. its basically the ultimate "PULL to the sky." the real challenge is staying on a rope and staying continuously moving for more than 5 min.

[Joseph David]

in retrospect and after careful review, i have determined that if you pick any 6 movements in corde lisse then you will most likely hit all 6 degrees of freedom. its basically the ultimate "PULL to the sky." the real challenge is staying on a rope and staying continuously moving for more than 5 min.

Funny how we each believe that the uniqueness of preferred discipline is "the ultimate". What I do believe that it certainly is the ultimate for that person in the here and now.

I always thought rock climbing was the ultimate. After getting my a&% handed to me, and being totally tanked in 4 minutes, I have a new appreciation for the fighting arts. I'm sure that corde lisse is very very cool to practice and train. Its all good:)

Mark, when are you going to share some footage of you on the rope?

[wildman]

i'm laying hands on a camera next week i think.

i will enjoy having the tribe watch it and try to categorize the movements in the 6 degrees. i've had alot of fun doing it.

corde lisse is "an" ultimate. or at least really friggin close. i think rock climbing falls into a slightly different category, mostly due to the grip.

i've started to think of these things in the terms of three grips. pulling against. pulling thru, and random. each grip having different expressions on the myofacial net.

trapeze, kettlebell = pull against
rope, club = pulls thru
rock climbing, sandbag grip training = random.

i'm seeing that the different grips allow for different expressions of movement in the 6 degrees of freedom.