PowerBreath in Australia

[bob_stra]

I was killing some time between classes today. Decided to read a fitness magazine in the library. I came across something interesting here for all us down-under folk -

http://www.healthmg.com.au/power_breathe.htm

From what I can see, it's somewhat similar to the Frolov and
Asthma type "lung training" devices.

NOTE: I know nothing about it beyond the website. I'm not advocating you buy it (though I might ;-) Just mentioning cool toy I accidentally found. The cost seems to be A$150 across all models.

If nothing else, there's a ton of breath training research articles on the site. Of course, you want to be somewhat wary of em ;-)

http://www.healthmg.com.au/research_articles_powerbreathe.htm

[jefwil]

Bob, I brought a powerbreathe about 18 months ago after reading the research on it. I have a bit of sports induced asthma which troubles me about 6 or so times a year. The powerbreathe has a wide range of resistance which strengthens your inhalation muscles. The problem with the product is that there is no resistance on exhalation. This is the problem with asthma (can't breath out so how can you breathe in). I developed great inhalation strength while using the product but something was still missing. Have you ever tried breathing in to increase your power while throwing a punch or coming up from rock bottom in a heavy Squat, well it doesn't work. As to there claim to increased sports performance I saw no gains at all. If anyone is interested in improving their breathing have a look at Coach Sonnon’s power breathing video and there is a good simple section on power breathing in Pavel Tsatsouline’s book Power to the people. Getting the two of these and you will learn and develop a lot more breathing power than using the powerbreathe and will get lots more valuable information for about the same price. This is a site where you will be able to get Pavel’s book and other Dragondoor videos and book in the next couple of weeks in Australia. http://www.australian-kettlebells.com/

[bob_stra]

Bob, I brought a powerbreathe about 18 months ago after reading the research on it. I have a bit of sports induced asthma which troubles me about 6 or so times a year. The powerbreathe has a wide range of resistance which strengthens your inhalation muscles. The problem with the product is that there is no resistance on exhalation.

Oh.

Well, that is quite strange. And not entirely useful ;-(

Live and learn I guess.

Thanks for the heads up jefwil.

[JasonE]

It's all in the name:


POWERbreathe Inspiratory muscle trainer

Nothing there about expiration, quite the opposite.

[CarlS]

Forgive my long post, but there seems to be some general confusion about what the Frolov device is supposed to do, and it is one of the few topics on this board in which I have more experience than most. It is not really to give people more 'wind', increase lung capacity, etc, even though these may be along-term effects.

Certain health and athletic respiratory training devices are compared to the Frolov device. But from what I can gather from Frolov's book, his device is really not designed to strengthen muscles of any sort, and the resistance is very slight, 20mL of water at the most, even for a healthy person who has used the device for months. This is different to other breathing devices.

In fact, for this very reason Frolov is opposed to swimming in any form except for a stroke which keeps the head above the water at all times, e.g. backstroke. He is very firm on this point. According to Frolov, exhaling against too much resistance is very damaging and runs counter to the use of the device.

I recall that Frolov says that endogenous breathing can be mastered WITHOUT the device, but that the device allows for the benefits of 'hypercapnic' breathing and the water lock allows one to exhale at a gentle but steady rate.

Frolov talks at length about cell energetics and the size of oxygen bubbles absorbed. While I'm far from expert in biology, the changes are supposed to take place at a cellular level, not muscular, and may take 6+months to achieve, assuming that one's technique is correct in the first place.

For anyone considering the Frolov device, amongst other respiratory training devices:
I use the Frolov device. Physicians are horrified when I tell them that Frolov can inhale once every 30mins, and that I plan to do the same. You can imagine. Nobody outside of a couple of Russian health clinics seems to have any idea about what the purpose of endogenous breathing is, let alone the technique. The book is fascinating and indecipherable. Most of the success stories in the book come from invalids and the elderly. If you're not facing impending invalidity or death, you may not be willing to spend 40mins a day, for at least 6 months, using the device, in order to improve 'the distribution of your cell energetics'. If you do regular cardio exercise, supposedly this will make the process much slower.

As for endogenous breathing improving performance breathing, I don't know enough about performance breathing, nor have I had enough success with the device, let alone WITHOUT the device, which is where endogenous breathing is supposed to take place.

[bob_stra]

Carl

Fascinating. I have no idea how that is physically possible (a control pause lasting 30 minutes). Have you eperienced anything as drastic as that? All around, I'd like to hear more on this topic from you.

So - is there anything else you can say on Frolov? Or perhaps a good website you could point us to?

[CarlS]

Although I've been using the Frolov device for months, I feel as if I've just begun, because I've had to stop twice on account of poor technique, and this has set me back.

But here is what I've learnt so far about the process:

The sequence is as follows: 3-5 months using the respiratory device. You aim to lengthen your exhalation time by 1 sec every couple of days, while keeping a single 2 sec inhalation. You breathe by moving your abdomen in and out, and are supposed even to keep a sunken chest, to discourage chest breathing.

Inhale for 2secs, exhale gently into the device for 6, then relax your abdomen outwards for 1, then exhale for another six, then another expansion of the abdomen for 1, then another 6 sec period of exhalation. Eventually the times will increase. At the moment I am at 40 seconds total (i.e. 2+6+1+6+1+6+1+6+1+10), I can't tell whether this is due to the refinement of technique or the grounding of 'endogenous breathing'. When your total reaches about 1 minute, certain changes are supposed to take place during the sessions. In particular, you start to find it easy to increase your total, not by the standard 1 sec every couple of days, but by 10secs or more per session. Frolov discovered this by experimenting on himself, as he was using different breathing devices and techniques to try to cure his own tuberculosis.

Although the process usually takes months, there are more immediate benefits, as the device is a sort of hybrid between between two different but complementary types of respir. devices, as you would have read in BodyFlow. By reducing your inhalations and increasing the percentage of carbon inhaled, your breathing becomes more efficient in each session, more oxygen is absorbed. You do tend to sleep very well after a long session using good technique. Other short term benefits really depend upon the individual, but in general, the immune system is supposed to be strengthened, and the skin improves.

After you can have increased your total exhalation time using the device, you then ween yourself off the device. As I mentioned, Frolov says at one point, that you can achieve endogenous breathing WITHOUT the device, but he doesn't elaborate. The key is to extend your exhalation duration, although this might take much longer without the device. My biology is not very good, but for endogenous breathing it is necessary 'maintain blood pressure in the lungs'. This is the purpose of the water in the device, and when you breathe without the device, you breathe through slightly pursed lips. From what I can gather, you are not 'being breathed'. Keeping a constant pressure in the lungs, without straining or holding your breath, has been a sticking point for me.

As for any athletic benefits, Frolov says that the 'first energetics system secures optimal functioning conditions for the second energetics system'. I understand this to mean that while exercising in a normal aerobic fashion, your cell energetics are usually expended by the work itself and the body's attempt to cope, or 'the mechanical work and the thermal exchange with the environment'. A small percentage of cells are taxed excessively, and this leads to premature aging. Because endogenous breathing increases the energetics of all cells, the physical work becomes less strenuous. This is what the intellectbreathing.com website is getting at when they compare ER with aerobic and anaerobic breathing.

The book is sprawling, but makes interesting points about how and when the body becomes weak, not only as the result of 'fear reactivity' type stress but also at particular times of life, the fetal stage, early adolesence. Frolov himself suffered through bad acne, parodontosis, tuberculosis and cancer, and his work is really the result of his attempts to become healthy and live longer. He argues that heavy exercise, fasting and ice water baths are detrimental to one's health, longevity and energy. The arguments are often well above my head. The website does as good a job as the book in explaning the actual processes that are said to take place during ER and the sessions, so I won't repeat them. The english language video that comes with the device isn't very helpful, and the book is necessary.

I hope this provides some information for you, or anyone here who happens to do a keyword search for 'Frolov'. I hope this also helps to explain an old post on the amerross discussion board:

http://www.amerross.com/discus/messages/1348/1320.html?SundayJune1520031251pm

It is difficult to know whether 'Being Breathed' should be grouped together with other damaging forms of 'external breathing', but performance breathing seems to differ in method and intent from 'internal breathing', or ER.

Sorry for another long post - consider it a book review.

[bob_stra]

Hi again Carl

Thank you - that was excellent. I appreciate it, because I am quite curious to trail the Frolov approach.

If I have one concern about Frolov, Buyteko etc it is this - it allows one to become more comfortable with greater levels of CO2 in the lungs. For asthmatics and such, this is possibly quite dangerous as it disinhibits the natural cough reflex? (Coughing etc increases the flow of air into the lungs, which is what is needed during an asthma attack to dilate the bronchioles AFAIK).

Just a thought anyways, should there be any asthmatic lurkers reading this ;-)

FWIW I've use the stuff from Dykhaniye to greatly increase my "wind" in certain circumstances (esp: running for a late bus), though that is more a muscle co-ordination factor, not true endogenous breathing (as I understand it).