Everyone has a plan until they get hit!

[Robert V]

What a truth!

I was doing NHB training to help prepare a fighter for a fight. He mounted me and began to pound me into another reality. The beating was so bad that I've been having dizzy spells every since. If it continues, I will seek medical help.

I train people to get out of these situations, but I just couldn't do anything when the impact began. I couldn't think! I could not react. I'm very use to the contact standing, but we wanted to work on his "Ground and Pound", so I began on my back...mounted, which is not a familiar position for me.

How do you maintain that "alert calmness" in such a position, while you are being pounded?

[James Boelter]

The reason I posted was to share another great quote, from the movie "The Way Of The Gun":
"I think a plan is just a list of things that don't happen." :!:

Robert, don't have specific advice since I am a bodyworker by intent,but I've been in similar situations of physical distress - my first actual race with a collegiate rowing crew had a similar 'physical distress that puts you in another dimension'. Any cushion granted by 3 months worth of intensive conditioning and training - weights, stadium stairs, 5 mile runs, mile swims, hours in the training tank, practice time on the water - went out the window in the first 8 minutes, and the remaining 8 minutes were like a waking nightmare. The ONLY reason I didn't quit was because my teammates on the shell would have killed me. So any conception of how I had planned to be an athletic 'hero' under great stress (the way you see in movies and stories all the time) evaporated under the actual stress, because it was a whole new level of pain that I had never been able to conceive. Simply put, I didn't understand PAIN at that point in my young life.

Anyway, having been through the experience and having survived it, I am sure you will start to instinctly develop counter strategies based on the info you picked up (including the aspect of mental haziness)...now that you understand what you are up against.

[Dan Chomycia]

Robert,

The experience itself was new to you, wasn't it? Not being on the ground,
not being hit, but all of these together. Right? :wink:

:idea:
This is a common occurance for many MAist's who haven't been there.
Back to the Maxim "The whole does not equal the sum of all the parts" or to put it another way "Five severed fingers do not make a hand."

This represents a nuance that many people don't recognize, not just in MA but in other areas of life as well.


How do you maintain that "alert calmness" in such a position, while you are being pounded?

The problem I still see is the fact that many people spend time on each different game when the should be working incrementally on the entire game.

I helped to answer a similar question on this thread.
Fear Reactivity as a result of (perceived) lack of options? (http://www.profcs.com/app/aftrack.asp?afid=79892&u=http://circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1606&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

I'm anxious to hear more ways of dealing with this also,

[Michael Brown]

I found the same thing occurred to me when I first got mounted by a legit pro MMA fighter. I think its inevitable to feel this way the first time.

The problem seems to be that it was not common for you and you were going full out. From your other posts I making the assumption that you are very highly experienced but you experienced something entirely new in this session. That is probably the hardest way to learn such a dominating situation. You were seeking to improve someone's training in an area you did not yet feel comfortable with yourself.

What I found was that gradual movement into this phase worked best. i.e starting with open hand slaps (very lightly), moving to 16 oz. boxing gloves only, then to MMA gloves, then to full out. This progression can take anywhere from several weeks to almost a year.

If you are the top dog (or even very close) in your training group or gym, its difficult to execute this plan because everyone else is learning too. You have to do this training with someone who already understands it and who is somewhat self-actualized so they don't feel the need to pummel you to gratify themselves.

Luckily I train at a gym (Lion's Den-Tulsa) where I am not even close to being top dog so my choice of partners is less relevent. I find that I can work on a lot of areas with a wide variety of people who help me achieve my goals without getting beaten on too badly.

If you are the top dog, then you and your partners have to discuss this situation carefully and make it clear who the training is for and which partner is to benefit from a particular drill. If one person is training a particular drill (once the technique has been learned), he should achieve success in the endeavor approximately 70% of the time if it is a drill and not competitive sparring. Competitive sparring should not take place until drills have been made comfortable.

Sparring without a proper foundation (i.e. the step-approach) is probably one of the biggest reasons people leave contact sports.

Michael Brown

[Dan Chomycia]

Good post Michael :!:

[Jarlo Ilano]

Perhaps a simplistic idea, but have you considered using the face protector headgear (cage or plastic shield)? Especially in such intense training where you will be hit so hard as to prompt medical attention?

We use the headgear with the cage, which somewhat restricts certain techniques in grappling, but helps greatly reduce impact shock (without eliminating it) when working the strikes hard on the ground.

I empathize with your situation, I am sure that you will find your way in finding your solution.

[rbibbs]

Good observations Michael... man, could I get you to come give that speech at the BJJ school where I train?

I've got guys, averaging 50# bigger than me, yanking me into positions, and (as far as I know) thinking they're accomplishing something by practicing that way, when they likely know as well as I do, that they can't "yank" other 200# guys into position. (I still get "something" out of it, because "yank happens", and eventually I need to figure out how to deal with it, other than gaining 50#, which ain't gonna happen.)

And yes, the school has a pretty high dropout rate, more people have disappeared over the 3 years I've been there, than have remained. And most of those were closer to 200# than I am, as well as a LOT closer to their 20th birthday than I am. (I'm 58yo) Hated to lose them. I'd think the school-owner would hate losing them even more, and discipline the sparring accordingly, but that hasn't happened.

Rick

[Dan Chomycia]

Unfortunately most places are like the Big Man on Campus,

2 speeds :!:

They nurse you along when it's time to learn a "technique", then obliterate you when it's time to learn how to apply it.

[Chuck Kechter]

Jumpin on the band wagon here. . .

Great posts all, but especially Michael. Who(m) I agree with. Incrimental progression is key!

Another thing to play with is a variation of the corner drill, though practice on the ground. Top guy has mount, and can only G & P, but only using one technique at a time. Bottom man works defensive skills only. Start power level low and work up. Add "new" skills in when comfort level is acheived. Each time a "new" vairiable is added ramp down the power, building as you go. Don't forget your tie-up skills while on the bottom. . . as a lot of folks do,as they usually concentrate on blocking, warding, and fending. Also don't forget your hip movement, as a lot do when faced with an upper body barrage. Buck, twist, shrimp, spin, whatever. . .

Just some ideas. Hope they help. Good luck!

Chuck

[Robert V]

Thanks to everyone. Great insight!

"...You were seeking to improve someone's training in an area you did not yet feel comfortable with yourself."

I think the above was the key phrase.

I "thought" I was good in this position for I've been there many times...but the quality of the fighter was quite less than a pro NHB fighter.

Sometimes I focus more on my professional fighter friends development than my own development.

As soon as I'm over these "dizzy spells", I will go back and incrementally progress my skills.

Thanks, again.

Robert