Fish Oil

[Anthony Roberts]

My wife recently attended The Natural Products Expo out in Anaheim, CA. (She's a food scientist). While there she was able to hear a lecture by Barry Sears (the Zone diet guy) on the benefits of fish oils. She transposed some of the notes she took and I've attached them here in case anyone would like to read them and offer comment. NOTE: This isn't an endorsement of any product or individual. On a funnier note, her plane ride to LA was non stop from Newark. She was stuck on a 6 hour flight with Richard Simmons.


"The Miracle of the New High Dose Fish Oil"

Dr. Barry Sears
New Hope Natural Media – a division of Penton Media, Inc


The nutrient to change medicine

Inflammation
Silent pain:
Measured by:
 C-Reactive Protein (non-specific)
 Silent Pain Index (SPI)
-ratio of AA (arachadonic acid) to EPA
- more precise marker of ecosanoids (hormones that lead to inflammation)

Types of Silent Pain
Obesity
Cancer
Type II Diabetes

3 Stages of Disease
Wellness  Silent inflammation (pain)  Chronic disease

Problems with anti-inflammatory drugs
 immune suppression
 osteoporosis
 death

Dietary Endocrinology
Food  Macrobnutrients (protein, carbs, fat)  hormone response
“The Zone”
 physiological state where hormones are controlled by the diet
 insulin control is important!

Blood tests control the Zone:

TEST GOOD IDEAL
AA/EPA 3 1.5 (avg American is 12)
Insulin (uu/mL) 100 5
TD/HDL 2 1 (avg American is 3)


Evidence based wellness
 blood tests define the Zone vs voodoo medicine


************************************************** ******************************

THE BEST NUTRITIONAL APPROACH TO REDUCE SILENT PAIN
= HIGH DOSE FISH OIL

2 groups of pigs were fed the Krispy Keme diet (high fat diet)
 1st group did not receive fish oil supplement - they had high cholesterol
 2nd group received fish oil supplement- they had high cholesterol but their arteries were clean.


Clinical benefits of high dose fish oil (HDFO):
Heart disease
Cancer
Depression
ADD
MS
Alzheimers
Chronic pain
Skin disorders
Fertility
Fat loss
Emotions

 MS can be reversed with HDFO
 Bipolar can be treated with HDFO
9.6g of omega-3/day
500% increase in recovery
 ADHD – alters cerebral blood flow
 Dementia
- Consistent insulin control needed also



TYPES OF FISH OIL

 fish
 crude fish oil
 health food grade fish oil
* all of the above sources may be contaminated with unhealthy levels of toxins such as mercury

 Ultra-refined EPA/DHA concentrations
- removes virtually all toxins
- can be used in high doses without toxin build up

How do you know if fish oil is safe?
 International Fish Oil Standards
 www.ifosprogram.com – an independent 3rd party analysis)
 each lot of each brand must be tested!


How much EPA/DHA do you need to reduce silent pain?
 healthy ~ 2.5 g/day
 Existing heart disease ~ 5g /day
 Existing chronic pain ~ 5-10 g/day
 Existing neurological conditions (ADHD, diabetes) > 10g/day

In 30 days, you can reduce your levels of EPA/DHA rapidly

The amount of omega-3 fatty acids needed is dependant on insulin control because eicosanoids are controlled by dietary fat and insulin

Best diet to control insulin?
1/3 low fat protein (size of the palm of your hand)
2/3 lots of fruits and veggies
dash of fat

Zone food pyramid:

Grains and starches
Monounstaurated fat
Low fat protein
Fruits
Veggies




HDFO typically comes from anchovies and sardines b/c they are small and have lower concentrations of toxins

[Connie Brown]

Thanks! very interesting. I took fish oil in therapeutic doses for a while and it made a difference. But now I use lots of salmon. I am still scared of sardines.

What did Richard have to say?

[Jay76]

I take Carlson Cod Liver oil. Lemon Flavor. Good stuff

Jay :D

[humilispuer]

Sardines are awesome! Eat them everyday after I workout! Great source of protein and Omega 3s and the bones are an excellent source of calcium! :)

ABN,

Thanks a ton for the info - great stuff!

Jay,

I use Carlsons lemon flavor as well. Not too bad at all.

*As a side note: The veggies are indeed at the bottom of the Zone pyramid - some people may read the post and assume that grains and starches are at the base because they are first. Just adding in a neurotic comment*

-Jonathon

[Anthony Roberts]

*As a side note: The veggies are indeed at the bottom of the Zone pyramid - some people may read the post and assume that grains and starches are at the base because they are first. Just adding in a neurotic comment*
-Jonathon

Not neurotic at all, there actually was a drawing of the pyramid in my wife's notes. I couldn't figure out how to put a triangle next to the description of the pyramid in this post. Thank you for clarifying what could have easily been misunderstood.

Connie, you asked what Richard had to say? My wife said that he really never stopped talking the entire time, from the moment they called for boarding until the moment they landed. Methinks the Sky Marshalls really earned their pay on this flight.

Andy

[Charles Long]

I am still scared of sardines.

Connie, if I may ask, why are you scared of sardines? I generally eat more of them than I do salmon or canned tuna. It seems people either love them or hate them but I've never heard anyone say they were scared of them before so I'm curious.

Charles Long

[Jarlo Ilano]

What do you folks think of Udo Erasmus' claim that obtaining Omega 3's from seed sources is healthier than processed fish oil?

A quote from his website: www.udoerasmus.com

"I prefer toro (belly) sushi from albacore (white) tuna as my source of EPA and DHA. Salmon, mackerel, sardines, and rainbow trout are other good sources. You may find further benefits from eating such fish. Most people will not need them, but they may help a small percentage of the population.

I prefer eating fish to swallowing fish oil capsules because of the processing damage that occurs in fish oils. Fish oils are very difficult to work with. The "fishy" flavor of encapsulated oils or cod liver oil is actually rancidity. Fresh fish does not have this taste or smell. I also have concerns about fish liver oils. They are most likely to contain (and concentrate) highly toxic industrial chemicals such as PCBs."

I take his oil blend products, they have a good taste, I have just started taking the product so I have no long term review to share.

Also, any advice about the numerous "greens" supplements out there?

Thanks!

[admin]

Here are three green superfood powders:

http://www.synergy-co.com/pages/pure-synergy.html
http://www.dragonherbs.com/products/products.asp?sku=815
http://www.mercola.com/forms/livingfuel.htm

I try and cover all my nutritional bases and rotate (think circular here) amoung these three, rather than picking just one and sticking with it. They are all excellent. There are probably others out there just as good, but I haven't come across them yet.

YMMV.

-Michael

[Connie Brown]

Connie, if I may ask, why are you scared of sardines? I generally eat more of them than I do salmon or canned tuna. It seems people either love them or hate them but I've never heard anyone say they were scared of them before so I'm curious.
Facetious scared. I'm risk averse when it comes to new food and sardines are new. They remind me of those things in Sulu's ear in the Star Trek movie. Does one just eat em or do you mix it with celery and mayo?

[Anthony Roberts]

What do you folks think of Udo Erasmus' claim that obtaining Omega 3's from seed sources is healthier than processed fish oil?
A quote from his website: www.udoerasmus.com
Thanks!

Most fish oils undergo a fair degree of testing prior to reaching the consumer. If you check the link listed in the first post, you'll reach a site that performs analysis of various fish oils. (The org is independent of any manufacturer). The analysis is performed on every lot of product that is sold. Essentially you can check the lot # on the box or bottle of the oil that you purchased, go to the site, and receive a detailed breakdown and analysis of the product you purchased. The thing to bear in mind is that not all companies submit their product to such strict testing regimens. So be selective of the brand you choose.

As to seed vs. fish oil. The key difference is that fish oil contains long chain fatty acids and seed based oils (such as flax seed oil) contain short chain fatty acids. The long chain acids offer more in the way of benefit through greater efficacy and increased solubility and uptake. The seed based oils do offer some benefit but, not as much as fish oils. Seed base oils are a good alternative for those who practice a strict vegan diet. I don't know if a larger dose of seed base oil can balance that out; if you want, I will find out for you.

Regards,

Andy

[Charles Long]

[/quote]
Facetious scared. I'm risk averse when it comes to new food and sardines are new. They remind me of those things in Sulu's ear in the Star Trek movie. Does one just eat em or do you mix it with celery and mayo?[/quote]

The ones in mustard or hot sauce, I just eat out of the can. The ones in oil, I mix with mayo, black and green olives, and use it as a spread. I don't like celery.

Charles Long

[Jarlo Ilano]

Andy,

Thank you very much for your response. I am sure you (and many others here) are much more educated in these topics than I, I appreciate your input.

May I ask you to critique this article, (and any others that wish to chime in)

http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/fish_oil.htm

Is there any merit?

thanks again!

[Jarlo Ilano]

Michael,

Thank you for the green "superfoods" recommendations. I will definitely check them out. The pure synergy product is sticking out to me for some reason...

[humilispuer]

I find it interesting that Udo is quick to point out rancidity issues with fish oil but skates over rancidity issues with flax. Flax oil comes in a solid black container and requires cool temperature for a reason - it becomes rancid extremely easily! Either of the aforementioned products is bound to have rancidity issues. I am a whole food advocate. You want some fish oil, eat some fish. You want some flax oil, eat some ground flax meal. In the process you will be getting a large amount of various beneficial nutrients. Just my opinion.

-Jonathon

[James Boelter]

Oh, and the issue with sardines is dealing with the strong smell, flavor and texture problems. The trick is to douse them with a good organic vinegar (balsamic or otherwise). That has a miraculous alchemic effect on the problematic texture and smell problems, and alters the flavor to something most people can deal with without holding their noses while them consuming them. Vinegar is one of those 'all purpose flavor end runs' that will let you consume and digest almost any substance that you find problematic but are interested in for health reasons. It's almost as versatile as ketchup. :wink: (See P.J. O'Rourke's 'The Bachelor's Home Companion for more handy tips on using ketchup to avoid death via malnutirion and using mustard as a way of cutting the overly ketchup-y flavor of the foods you prepare.)

[Connie Brown]

using ketchup to avoid death via malnutirion and using mustard as a way of cutting the overly ketchup-y flavor of the foods you prepare.)
What a great idea. I had declared a moratorium on buying new food books but this looks like a must-have. i bet he is not talking about Hain no-sugar organic ketchup huh.

[James Boelter]

Oh, dear, Connie, I wouldn't go so far as to call TBHC a food book. It's a whole lifestyle thing. An H.L. Mencken/Ambrose Bierce lifestyle thing. My favorite quote from this amazing gem is from the section on bachelor entertaining:

"...and a bachelor is a living, breathing party all by himself. Actually what my girlfriend said was, 'You're a drunken, disgusting mess.' But surely that fits the definition."
and further in the chapter...
"...if you keep people busy and confused, they're likely to think they're having fun."

But the real reason I still have a copy in my library 10 years on is the wedding toast, which I have adapted/bowdlerized a couple of times, but not before telling the bride about the original (thus scaring the bejeezus out of her when I start out with the first couple lines and she thinks she knows what is coming):

"Here's to Tod Johnson, a helluva a pal
He's every gal's guy, and every guy's pal
He's a brick, he's a topper
He can sing, he can dance
And he frightens the horses when he lowers his pants." :lol:

[Anthony Roberts]

Jarlo,

I looked over the article that you posted the link to. It made me raise my eyebrows as it seemed to be more advertisement than information. Ideally, we would get all of our nutrients from our diet and our diet alone. Vitamins and supplements are, historically, a fairly new concept. I don't think anyone is denying that you don't NEED fish oil to survive and/or be healthy. Some promote it to reach optimal health, especially in individuals who do have chronic disease or are at risk for chronic disease.

Consider also that these chronic diseases are fairly new (in degree of epidemic) to our generation -ADHD, Type II diabetes, all the different forms of cancer. Also look at the increased demands of the bodies of people who are extremely physically active (I think most of the people here fall into that category) and the search for the ideal anticatabolic to repair and replenish the body.

Udo has a number of references but none that specifically talk about the useof his oil blend. I don't exactly understand the medicine behind all this
but it sounds like he is trying to argue that all you really need is the ALA and your body will convert it as needed whereas the fish already gives you the products of conversion, EPA and DHA.

Udo contradicts himself here:

"For thousands of years, people got along without rancid, over-processed
encapsulated fish oils. They are not a necessity for health. Today, people
can still get along without these damaged, fishy 'fish oil pills'. Eating
clean, wild catch fish two to five times a week provides the health
benefits that are attributable to long chain n-3 fats, including lowered
risk of cardio, cancer, diabetes, inflammation, and even osteoporosis.


I hope this helps to clear up the conversion confusion. Eat clean,
organically grown foods, optimize your intake Udo's Oil Blend and the
other 13 components of health: greens, minerals, vitamins, proteins,
enzymes, probiotics, fiber, antioxidants, phytonutrients, fuel, water,
air, and light. Enjoy your life. Be grateful for everything God, nature,
and nurture gives you, and you're good to go. "



First he says that we can get along with out fish oil. The he tells us to
take his oil blend. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmmm.....


Regards,

andy

[Connie Brown]

Some promote it to reach optimal health, especially in individuals who do have chronic disease or are at risk for chronic disease...

First he says that we can get along with out fish oil. The he tells us to
take his oil blend. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmmm.....
I think both statements can be true if you consider the difference between therapeutic doses and regular maintenance.

I was coming from an unbalanced diet with not enough omega whatevers, and a period of supplementation was helpful until levels were raised to a healthy state. Then I can top it off and keep things humming with real food.

[Jarlo Ilano]

Jarlo,

Ideally, we would get all of our nutrients from our diet and our diet alone. Vitamins and supplements are, historically, a fairly new concept. I don't think anyone is denying that you don't NEED fish oil to survive and/or be healthy. Some promote it to reach optimal health, especially in individuals who do have chronic disease or are at risk for chronic disease.

Also look at the increased demands of the bodies of people who are extremely physically active (I think most of the people here fall into that category) and the search for the ideal anticatabolic to repair and replenish the body.
First he says that we can get along with out fish oil. The he tells us to
take his oil blend. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmmm.....



Andy,

Thanks for adding your insight. Yes, I am looking more to fill in the gaps of my diet. If I could I would eat as much sashimi as possible, here in Hawaii it's plentiful and of great quality. However, that would be a big hit to the budget! I was just wondering if there was a "best" solution. Though, it does smack of advertisement, I think he makes valid points. Just as Sears markets his fish oils, so Udo markets his seed oils. It appears that again the "best" is to have a variety of sources for EFAs.

Thank you again

[Jarlo Ilano]

I think both statements can be true if you consider the difference between therapeutic doses and regular maintenance.

I was coming from an unbalanced diet with not enough omega whatevers, and a period of supplementation was helpful until levels were raised to a healthy state. Then I can top it off and keep things humming with real food.

Connie,

Do you mean that you supplemented for a period of time and then stopped once you were able to adjust your diet to get the EFA's from food sources?

How long did you supplement for, and how did you determine when you could stop and just go for the real food equivalents?

I am interested because I see the same imbalances in my diet. A combination of budget constraints and cooking just for myself, limits my food choices a bit.

Thank you for your insights, I appreciate all the great minds in this forum.

[JasonE]

If I could I would eat as much sashimi as possible, here in Hawaii it's plentiful and of great quality. However, that would be a big hit to the budget!

Wow, am I fighting down a spike of jealousy here... :twisted:

Sashimi can be pretty darn affordable, pal. Get a good sharp knife and go buy the raw fish. Cut it yourself and you cut the price WAY down. It may not look as pretty, but it will still be satisfying. If it works for me in Minnesota with flown-in fish, I'm sure it would be even better in Hawaii where the fish come in. :D

[Mike]

I find it interesting that Udo is quick to point out rancidity issues with fish oil but skates over rancidity issues with flax. Flax oil comes in a solid black container and requires cool temperature for a reason - it becomes rancid extremely easily! Either of the aforementioned products is bound to have rancidity issues. I am a whole food advocate. You want some fish oil, eat some fish. You want some flax oil, eat some ground flax meal. In the process you will be getting a large amount of various beneficial nutrients. Just my opinion.

-Jonathon

I totally agree, but I can't eat fish. The taste is totally unbearable to me. So I usually supplement with fish oil!

[humilispuer]

Mike,

I love the taste - the good stuff is just too damn expensive though! I supplement with fish oil as well. Carlsons to be exact ;)

-Jonathon

[Mike]

I stopped taking fish oil for about a year and I noticed that my hair thinned considerably. It might just be a coincidence!

[Connie Brown]

Mike, during that year, what was your intake of omega3 from other sources? that is an interesting factoid.

[Mike]

Mike, during that year, what was your intake of omega3 from other sources? that is an interesting factoid.

Pretty minimal actually! I don't eat fish at ALL and was occasionally eating nuts so my hair thinning might have been partially due to omega 3 deficiency. But I have friends who probably NEVER get any O-3's and they still have thick mops goin'!

[Connie Brown]

...my hair thinning might have been partially due to omega 3 deficiency. But I have friends who probably NEVER get any O-3's and they still have thick mops goin'!
How true.

Nutrition can sure be a head-scratcher :lol:

[Charles Long]

Nutrition can sure be a head-scratcher :lol:

If I ever figure it out, I'll be a rich man. :D

Charles Long

[dfobare]

I notice a number of participants on this thread use products from Carlson Labs. Any reason why? It does not appear that their products are tested by the IFOS site mentioned earlier.

[James Boelter]

Carlson products come highly recommended from at least a couple of well known sources (relatively speaking): Dr. Mercola's email newsletter, and the book 'The Protein Power Lifeplan" by the Drs. Eades. That probably accounts for their relatively high profile on these pages.

[Jay76]

Be careful on the dosage though, Fish oil is a blood thinner....