humilisphuer? AM wo without food?

[jon]

hey jon

i notice u w/o without eating in the morn.....

what do you think of cbass article on FAQ2 at his site? www.cbass.com?

do you agree with reasoning?

he thinks working out on empty is a bad idea. agree?

cheers

another jonathan!

[humilispuer]

To be quite honest, no, I do not agree with Mr. Bass on this one. I have been working out on empty for a good deal of time to no detriment. I notice no performance gain by eating a snack before training. If one were to eat a snack before training, I suggest it be fat and protein versus protein and carbs. The latter is self defeating as increased insulin from carbohydrate ingestion may very well lead to decreased growth hormone output during exercise. For insulin to be raised, growth hormone has to be suppressed and vice versa.

I have been on a paleo regimen for a good deal of time which means I have been low carbing for a good deal of time. My body uses fat as fuel versus carbohydrate. This may explain why I do not experience a dip in performance when training on empty. Either way, you have to do what works for you. If you can run faster, jump higher, and lift heavier with pre workout snack, by all means eat the damn snack!

Bodybuilders, through trial and error, tend to discover method for composition improvement long before it becomes common knowledge. It has been known, for a good deal of time, in BB circles, that aerobic on empty exiles adipose from the body. In my mind, training on empty to promote fat loss and growth hormone release and ingesting solid post workout nutrition to prevent catabolism is the way to go.

Us Jonathan's abound. Soon I will recruit you and the rest of our brethren to raise up and TAKE OVER THE WORLD - MUHAHAHAHAH! Oh... Sorry about that... I meant... We have to stick together.. Yes.. That's what I meant...
*It's early, excuse my insanity*

-Jonathon

Agree w/ crazy Jon on this. I ,and more importantly a certain world class athlete i train with, have been training and competing on "empty" and lo-carb for years. I won the Philadelphia KB meet on a cup of coffee and a scoop of peanut butter 4 hours before competing.

[Connie Brown]

Something Bill said way earlier comes to mind.
There is a transition time for converting "running on sugar" to "running on fats." Humi and Bill are both well into running on fat.

So depending on the individual and where their metabolism is,
exercising on empty can lead to an energy or blood sugar crash.
(guess how I know). Those really suck and can lead into bad
side effects the rest of the day. Not to mention it is
demotivating and one of the reasons people give up on
the transition IMHO.

If I was just starting and knew then what I know now,
I would have whatever combo of fuel prevents a crash
but still keeps me on the path toward the way of eating I want.

Like protein and enough slow carbs to prevent a crash.

[JClayton]

As far as training on empty and burning fat for fuel, do you think that taking 1-2g of L-carnitine before working out would make a difference?

Two people have suggested this to me lately. One is an M.D. who works with a lot of athletes, the other is an ultra-marathoner. Both seem very knowledgeable about peformance.

Thanks for all opinions.

Regards,

[humilispuer]

I have heard of studies indicating L-Carnitine to be effective at assisting fat metabolism. While this can be a positive if you are fat adapted, I doubt it will make much difference if you are not. The carnitine will simply help process fat; if you are burning primarily sugar, this is neither here nor there. That's just my opinion. Also, over at the DD forum about a week ago, Mahler said that in order to be effective you would have to take in excess of 10-20 grams. That's a crapload of carnitine. I would save my money.

Connie,

You hit the nail right on the head. Depending on where you stand, metabolism wise, you may need a pre-workout meal to reach full performance and avoid a "crash."

-Jonathon

[JClayton]

Jonathon,

Thanks for your reply and your opinion. Actually, the M.D. that mentioned this to me told me to build up to 6g of Carnitine, which when I priced it out at the health food store turned out to be very expensive. I wonder where Mahler got his figure of 10-20 g?

Regards,

[humilispuer]

Not sure where Mahler got his figure. If I recall, lamb has an extremely high level of carnitine, I'd rather save the money and eat some lamb than pop some pills :D

-Jonathon

[Connie Brown]

That's interesting about the lamb. Wonder if it also applies to veal.

[humilispuer]

I don't think so. Lamb is extremely vitamin and mineral rich, moreso than many other meats. Tastes pretty darn good to boot. THe costco in my area sells free range Australian lamb - good stuff!

-Jonathon

[JClayton]

Good advice. Thanks.

Regards,

[jon]

thanks fellas....

well my priority i guess is vert leap gain over body comp slightly so ill consider all opinions.......

also jon another coincidence you like aussie lamb and im an aussie!!!

CRAZY!!!!!!!

ciao

jon

[humilispuer]

My plan is coming together! Maybe we can recruit the lamb and various other wildlife to aid us in our conquest? *shifty eyes*......

-Overlord Jo....
Scratch that..
-Jonathon

Carnitine

I have never found any non-thermogenic "fat burner" to do anything that I could notice. Carnitine, CLA, vodoo etc...

Thermogenics work but are "dangerous" depending on a million things there is no need to debate again.

It's WAY WAY WAY easier to add 100 cal a day to your excercise load (Ellis) then to burn a teany bit more fat on 3$ of carnitine.