Quap hops and one arm srews for punching

[ndav]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me what quap hops and one arm srews are? Which video are they demonstrated in?

Thanks in advance

Nish

[admin]

Here's an article about quad hops:
http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/17/gannon.html

Here is a short video of Coach Sonnon doing them at the CST alpha, included in the Maximology video series:
http://www.rmax.tv/images/spiderman.ASF

Enjoy. :twisted:

[Ryan Murdock]

Could anyone enlarge upon the use of these exercises / their impact on striking? I understand that it conditions the use of stored elastic energy, but is there more to it than that statement? Could someone suggest a training protocol?

Thank you.

[Scott Sonnon]

What is the purpose of plyometrics for kicking? Similarly, Quad Hops develop the short range elastic explosion needed for striking, especially in multi-tasking events like NHB / free-style mixed fight. It teaches conservation of energy as well, a major characteristic neglected in striking, but well understood in grappling.

Screw-ups provide full range flexion/extension AND rotary resistance in the range and depth of striking without simulating (and thus interfering with) the skill of striking. The exercise also trains slightly outside of the scope of the striking skill and thus develops a 'safety valve' for when movements deviate from the expected, and allows the fighter to recover (and may even deliver some impact even at unorthodox angles). These are two of the tenets of Circular Strength Training's SPP.

You want to train these exercises stimulating the physiological profile of your sport, so it depends upon the type of striking events in which you compete. (This is the third tenet of CST SPP.) However, in general combat sports engage a BURST-RECOVER-BURST profile, so your training protocol should stimulate this profile.

If in very low volume, you can use these as a way to prime your muscle software for the practice and competition of your event. If used in high volume or intensity (such as with someone on your back or with a weighted vest), then place at least 24 hours between your training and your practice and competition.

Focus on skill refinement for the two weeks, and don't worry about "training" them. Afterwards, let us know where you are in your development of them, and the coaching staff can offer suggestions based upon your baseline performance levels of the specific exercises.

[Ryan Murdock]

Coach Sonnon,

Thanks very much! I've already experienced amazing results with the arm screw ups, in the areas of shock engineering strikes and in things like screwing out of a clinch. I haven't done much work with the quad hops yet, and in the work that I have done, I find that I'm using way too much effort. My legs are bouyant and tend to spring me too much in relation to my arms, which are sadly not very bouyant at all. From the articles and posts that I've read here it seems that this will improve over time.

I don't compete in anything, just a lifer, my background is Bujinkan thoroughly renovated with a few years of ROSS technology thanks to your tapes and books. My goal is to capture that natural lightening fast striking that you display on shock engineering. I was just looking for some ideas for adding the quad hop to my training. You've given me plenty to work with.

Thanks very much for your time and your advice. It's appreciated, and put to use.

Ryan.

[ndav]

Thank you to everyone for the replies. Guess I'm going to have to incorporate screw ups and quad hops into my training. Coach Sonnon, why would doing an exercise that simulates striking be counter- productive? I thought that it would be training the kinematic chain, which is why I use full contact twists described by Pavel Tsatsouline.

Thanks in advance,

Nish

[Scott Sonnon]

You're confusing SIMULATION with STIMULATION. If for instance you added hand weights and performed the exact skill of your striking, neuromuscularly it registers as a new skill. As a result, the new skill competes with your grooved fighting skill for dominance... and thus, not only does not contribute to, but actually diminishes your performance.

[Ryan Murdock]

If I could add to that, using hand weights for striking power seems at first like a sensible idea, but the force of gravity acting on the weight is down. Better to use cables for this purpose so the resistance is in the right direction.

Obvious point I know, but it didn't occur to me until I tried it once.

[Scott Sonnon]

Any resistance (cable, freeweight, or otherwise) registers as a NEW SKILL to the CNS, and thus adversely affects the performance of the actual skill. It is not advised to load bear any specific skill's motions.

[Ryan Murdock]

Coach Sonnon,

Does this CNS effect go away once the new skill (ie the weighted application) becomes "old", familiar? Or does the neurological confusion always exist? From your post I read that training in that way is always a bad idea. I don't mean to nitpick or anything, I'm just trying to understand the training effect. How close is too close when it comes to creating exercises that are similar to but not exactly like a skill? How do you know that you are creating an exercise that works the pathway without conflicting with your grooved skill?

This adds a new depth to my understanding of the "why" of clubbell exercise design. I did so many things wrong in the past decade, things that seemed sensible on the surface, but that perhaps had conflicting training effects,...

Thank you very much for taking the time to clear these things up. I'm trying hard to digest/use the ROSS materials and then launch off them to create my own solutions to my individual training problems.

Ryan.

[Scott Sonnon]

Even in refinement phases of a skill, loading the skill registers with the CNS as a 'new' skill.

In general, just don't mimic the skill under resistance, and you should be okay. Half of CST Delta and Gamma were dedicated to exploring STIMULATION VS. SIMULATION and COMPONENT THEORY.

[Ryan Murdock]

Excellent, thank you for clarifying all this for me.

Enjoy the long weekend!

Ryan.

[ndav]

Once agin thank you all for the replies. I think I understand why training specific moves like a strike with loded resistance is wrong now. Tell me if this is right. I remember coach Sonnon talking about going from maximal relaxation to maximal tension in priming your bioenergy (Pavel Tsatsouline also talks about it in one of his tapes). I think that training a skill like a punch for example with loaded resistance, forces your muscles to be tense throughout the whole movement to accomodate the load. This conflicts with the proper way of training a punch because you're tense at the wrong moments (You're only supposed to be fuly tensed at impact or an inch through impact I think, and loose while delivering the strike). I guess this just confuses your CNS. Is this correct coach? Please let me know when you have time. Either way, I'm going to get the CST because it explains the difference between simulation and stimulation.

Thanks again everyone

Nish

[Chuck Kechter]

I wrote this for another forum, but it applies here. . .

"Expanding" on Coach Sonnon's post. . .
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The idea (behind resistance exercise[s] for specific sports) should be to stimulate not simulate.

Technique rehersal (skill development) and resistance exercise (GPP/SPP--for whatever goal--speed, endurance, muscular endurance, speed-strength, limit strength, et cetera) are very different from the other, and are actually at cross purpose to the other.

1lb hand weights (generally speaking) won't interfere with technique, (especially if you are used to 16oz gloves: 16oz=1lb. . .) but if you go much beyond that you are not only introducing muscular tension into your technique, but are also creating areas of bracing (usually in your core) to compensate for torque (so you don't throw something out of whack). Bracing is braking, and is counter productive to technique development.

Shadow box with 1lb=no big deal. But I would suggest that you perform resistance exercise(s) in a seperate set, using movements that stimulate the CNS like those of your chosen sport. Cables, Windmills, Swings/snatch pulls, Medicine ball twists--around the worlds, Many Clubbell exercises, et cetera. . .
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This conflicts with the proper way of training a punch because you're tense at the wrong moments (You're only supposed to be fuly tensed at impact or an inch through impact I think, and loose while delivering the strike). I guess this just confuses your CNS.

Bingo. Bracing is braking. Braking is bracing. . .

Hope this helps,
Chuck