Acupunture

Any of you guys tried this? Does it hurt?

There is a chinese acupunture and herbal medicine center 2 mins away from me and I went in their today to enquire about prices and they told me 30 pounds per session.

They also told me I could have a free consultation to decide what treatment I needed.

Do you know if it has ever been successfully used for treating mental illness's such as schizophrenia or bi-polar?

What does the rush of endorphins feel like?

Thansks in advance.

Peace.

Edward Metcalfe

[James Boelter]

My sifu was an expert level acupuncturist, and gave me extended treatments for my elbow one time, and then my knees a couple of years later. (The elbow stuff worked great, the knees continued to have problems despite his efforts).

To answer your major question, no it doesn't really hurt IF the practitioner is good...and by this I mean someone who is traditionally trained, as a opposed to a doctor or chiropractor who takes an 8 week course and then calls him self an acupuncturist . The needles are so fine they can slip into the skin pores, You may feel a little pricking now and then if a site is really tight and congested, no worse than mild 'pinch'.

As to whether you need it or can benefit from it...many people go to acupuncturists to 'stay healthy' as sort of a tune-up, to correct any mild imbalances and stagnations before they become major. Others get treated for anything you can name.

I have no idea of acupuncture's track record with regard to mental illness. TCM as I understand it doesn't classify symptoms and diseases the same way as Western medicine - ie TCM wouldn't recognise bipolar mood swings or schizophrenia as such, but would classify it as a disturbance of chi in one or several of the internal organs. I am sure that a good acupuncturist would be willing to take a shot at helping a person with these problems, and could do a lot with herbs, corrective exercise and acupuncture to help them relax and stabilize their moods. But as to if modern Western medicine recognizes or recommends it as a viable treatment option, I can't say.

[Vbrown]

In this country, TCM thus far is mostly used to treat these larger disorders adjunctively. ie. the treatments help reduce the unpleasant side effects of the meds these patients are on so they will be more likely to keep taking them.

Go to http://www.chinesemedicalpsychiatry.com. Bob has a number of useful links on the general topic.

And I agree with James on everything else.


Vince

Thanks a lot for the advice and the link.

I'm gonna go for a consultation today.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Peace

Edward Metcalfe

Just had the consultation.

They recomended herbal tablets for my bad stomach.

They say this will give me more energy.

Have to see what my parents say before I decide whether to buy them or not.

Peace.

Edward Metcalfe

[James Boelter]

That's a GREAT link ,Vince! I'll be digging into that for some time to come.

Thanks!

[Ken]

bob flaw's stuff is usually high quality.

yes, acupuncture/tcm can help mental disorders but results vary significantly.

i have a patient who suffered from panic disorder for 25 years and after 18 months of treatment is free from both the panic attacks and all anxiety medication. this was my most successful case.

I've also had plenty of mental disorder cases that i couldn't do jack squat about.......

your practitioner should give you an estimate of how long it should take for you to feel results based on your personal condition. if you don't feel results by that time then you should consider going elsewhere.

[bob_stra]

bob flaw's stuff is usually high quality.

yes, acupuncture/tcm can help mental disorders but results vary significantly.

i have a patient who suffered from panic disorder for 25 years and after 18 months of treatment is free from both the panic attacks and all anxiety medication. this was my most successful case.


I've read references to a Russian text / study on acupuncture. (Mentioned in Feldenkrais' Case of Nora IIRC) They noted that it had *better* success rates for "psychological problems" that organic ones. (eg: addiction, panic attacks etc).

Old study - 1960's. Always thought it very interestong.

Keen to try some acupuncture myself. I stuck a needled in my hand once when I was learning TCM stuff. Totally painless, though vasovagal effect nearly got me (ie: passing out due to fear of needles)

[Ken]

bob,

i actually did my undergrad study in social work and worked in mental health for three years both before grad school in acupuncture.

bluntly stated, i don't think i EVER saw anyone really get better using the traditional psychiatric/ psychotherapeutic approach. This was only my own observation based on a small time spent working in mental health but many of my more seasoned co-workers shared the same frustration.

the results i've seen with treating mental disorders using acupuncture/tcm have been much more profound and long lasting.

There's many theories on this and the one I believe is that the body actually stores trauma in it's cells and energetic pathways. Unless this is released by something like acupuncture/yoga/meditation/body flow the real root of the problem will never be addressed.

[bob_stra]

bob,

i actually did my undergrad study in social work and worked in mental health for three years both before grad school in acupuncture.

bluntly stated, i don't think i EVER saw anyone really get better using the traditional psychiatric/ psychotherapeutic approach. This was only my own observation based on a small time spent working in mental health but many of my more seasoned co-workers shared the same frustration.

the results i've seen with treating mental disorders using acupuncture/tcm have been much more profound and long lasting.



I think it would be inreresting for someone with access to good, cheap acupuncture to try combining it with their CST stuff. Eg - certain emotions kick up when doing xyz (shinbox roll) + acupuncture for that particular "emotional crisis" = ???

(Does targeting the emotion help the movement? That kinda stuff).

Might be fun is all I'm sayin ;-)

[Vbrown]

Hi Ken!

When and where did you recieve your TCM training? I'm still in the thick of it myself...so I'm just hoping there is light at the end of this tunnel.

Thanks for your input, btw. Good stuff.

Vince

[Ken]

Hi Vince,

I graduated from Pacific College in NYC 2 years ago. I also apprenticed under Master He Binhui for medical qigong and Dr. Guidun Bai for acupuncture.

What school are you going to?

I'm fortunate in that I have a successful private practice. Most of my friends that graduated with me are still struggling as the tcm industry has taken a beating.

IMO acupuncturists have shot themselves in the foot by fighting for insurance parity as it has put the profession under the control of HMO's that use misleading advertising practices. In my practice i've recently bowed out of most of the provider plans i was on simply because i was getting screwed.

Stay with it, it's worth it if you can make it work and there's NOTHING like being self-employed doing something you love. Make sure you specialize in your practice, open in a good area, and make your clinical environment as relaxing as possible.

[Vbrown]

I started at Meiji in Berkeley, but due to a wide variety of issues, I've transfered to ACCHS in Oakland. Not as happy, but the political environment is less toxic.

Good to hear you're doing well! What did you do to set yourself apart? The insurance thing sounds very familiar. If only that was the least of ways that acupuncturists have shot themselves in the foot. :roll:

Take care,

Vince

[Ken]

you know i wasn't happy with the education i got at Pacific either. TONS of B.S. and a huge part of the curriculum was redundant. How many classes can you give on wind-cold invasion???

the only thing that saved me education wise was the apprenciship I did with Dr. Bai and Binhui.

Here's an industry secret that will make you successful, it worked for me:
Specialize in fertility and gyn disorders.

1. Women are more open to tcm and take better care of their health in general.
2. There is a huge rise in the incidence of female infertility in the past few years due to excessive drug use (antibiotics, food preservatives, etc.), stress, and lifestyle habits.
3. TCM is extremely effective at treating infertility and helping IVF
4. It's not covered by insurance so you don't have to argue with people about why you want them to pay cash.
5. Once you've had a few successes with this, your fame will spread like wildfire in your community as you will have given a desperate and depressed couple the greatest gift they could ask for....a child. You won't need to advertise as i've found that successful fertility cases gather a huge amount of attention.

[Coach Hurst]

I think it would be inreresting for someone with access to good, cheap acupuncture to try combining it with their CST stuff. Eg - certain emotions kick up when doing xyz (shinbox roll) + acupuncture for that particular "emotional crisis" = ???

(Does targeting the emotion help the movement? That kinda stuff).

Might be fun is all I'm sayin

Bob, that actually sounds like an interesting idea. My better half is an acupuncturist. Might do a little experiment like that... :D

[bob_stra]

Bob, that actually sounds like an interesting idea. My better half is an acupuncturist. Might do a little experiment like that... :D

Let me know if it that bears fruit.



Funny this thread should pop up just now - I had my first real acupuncture experience two days ago when mum and I went for some TCM.

(Though I'm almost totally 'green' to it, acupuncture is somewhat of an interest of mine. The opportunity to study it academically has recently become a reality).

Overall - very relaxing. Dare I say it feels like the 'afterglow' one gets from a certain...uh...'intimate' activity.

Though it wasn't entirely painless - some of the needles felt cold and one in particular felt like electric shock. And when they twiddled the needles around...oh boy :( Thankfully the moxa stick helped with cold ones and the evil eye I gave them kept them away from the electric stinging one.

Thanks for the replys everyone, I forgot I made this thread, started it a long time ago.

Well, i'm doing fine with ww and bodyflow for the moment, but I think i'll give accupunture a try to see what the combo is like so I can give you guys some constructive info on the benefits of the combination.

I tottaly agree with the comment on trauma being stgored in the cells and released through bodyflow and accupunture.

Their is so much we don't yet know about the body and how it works, and I think we are going to be seeing a lot more of a shift in the Eastern spiritual direction where they have used these "new age" practises for thousands of years with full benefits.

Cheers everyone!

[HereBeADragon]

This is a subject of great interest to me. I actually plan on attending the Pacific College in San Diego after I finish my AA. Until then there is a TCM doctor that lives near by that I'm trying to workout a deal with to teach me what he knows. I really have enjoyed my acupuncture sessions in the past and I always notice what one might call strange things happening when I get them. Often I experience strange sensation (never anything bad always have been enjoyable) and find that zits and other toxins tend to rocket to the surface and pass away quickly with regular treatments. I love acupuncture and this comes from a former needle wuss. :D

Well, I just had an hours electric acupunture and I feel kind of weird.

They said I have a common problem in China and they don't regard it as whats been diagnosed.

They looked at my toungue and said I have to much yin energy.

So I the treatment which I will carry on twice a week and they told me to exercise in order to sweat everyday and to meditate everyday.

I feel a bit sick but at the same time I feel more strength in general.

Do any of you know of what type of meditation cultivates yang energy and also which ww and bodyflow movements I should focus on for the same purpouse?

Cheers.

I'll let you know how I feel later and tommorow etc.

Thanks.

Well, I just had an hours electric acupunture and I feel kind of weird.

They said I have a common problem in China and they don't regard it as whats been diagnosed.

They looked at my toungue and said I have to much yin energy.

So I the treatment which I will carry on twice a week and they told me to exercise in order to sweat everyday and to meditate everyday.

I feel a bit sick but at the same time I feel more strength in general.

Do any of you know of what type of meditation cultivates yang energy and also which ww and bodyflow movements I should focus on for the same purpouse?

Cheers.

I'll let you know how I feel later and tommorow etc.

Thanks.

Had another session yesterday together with an amazing massage.

This time they also put the neddle in my dan tian as well as my third eye.

I feel really good like when you master a biomechanical exercise for the first time and get a big discharge of negative energy.

My emotions are starting to come back and I am reflecting back on life again and also seeing things for how they really are.

I actually nearly started crying today while listening to Africa unite by Bob Marley haha i'm becoming human again :lol:

So, yep, the rmax and acupuncture combination is very effective.

Cheers.

Had another session yesterday using the same points I think.

Wanted to ask about one thing which is I can't feel the electric pulses in my left leg.

I can feel them everywhere else. Come to think of it, my left knee and ankle is where i'm having the most problems with rom when doing ww.

I've moved to advanced with most areas except my lower legs.

Do you think I should do extra ww for my left leg, like give it a blitz?

Also, I hit my head really hard a few years ago on the right side of my head round about the amygdala area on a metal point sticking out from a radiator.

I was unconcious due to a stupid passin g out game we were playing when I hit it and when my head bounced off I woke up.

I've asked the doc for a brain scan as my osteopath said that the right cranial plate was compacted in, but the doc tells me i'm being paranoid.

Bassically, do you think if i've damaged some of my right brain it could afeect movement in my left leg?

If so, could anyone help me out by telling me what I should tell my doc to get him to agree for a brain scan.

Sorry for writing all that, it's been bothering me for years and no one will listen.

Cheers.

Okay, sorry, forget about the brain bit, this ain't the place for it :oops:

Back to the original point, do any of you have any idea of why i'm not feeling the electrical pulses in my left leg?

When I told the tcm doc she just pushed the needle in further which hurt a lot *ouch* so I didn't want to tell her again.

Any idea's?

Cheers.

Is it normal to feel deppressed after treatment as the body adjusts?

I feel really bad, been fighting it the past week but today this evening its hit me hard.

It's like all the emotion i've suppressed the past well my whole life is coming back into my sensory theater of awareness.

I've been successfull at releasing alot of it with ww etc but ive had so much to deal with throughout my life which ive suppressed, never used to cry, and I just feel really slow and dumb.

I'm gonna go do my ww and vibration drills which should get me out of thisevening's cloud.

Sorry, i've got no one to talk to over here so that's why i'm allways on here lol.

Anyways...............wake up and practise.....

Cheers.