Mixing Carbs/Fat

[tjosh]

I am curious if anyone is familiar with John Berardi's dietary recomendations against mixing carbs and fat in the same meal. So he recomends having meals that are only protein and fat or protein and carbs. He thinks this will lead to less fat gain.

Any experiences or thoughts on this?

Thanks

[Connie Brown]

I never tried his program but I did try a couple where you separated protein/veg meals from carb meals.

Keeping in mind that I was trying these diets after I was already in bad shape, the carb-only meals made the insulin resistance worse by giving me a bigger glucose flood than my muscle/metabolism could handle at that point. In fairness I also skimped on non-starchy vegetables; the fiber would have mitigated the rush from the carbs.

FWIW I have been reading The Paleo Diet and the author, Cordain, points out that with whole foods, nowhere in nature do you find starches and sugars combined with fats. Bananas? low fat. Fatty meat? low carb. (Oh okay whole milk and milk sugar, I will stop now)

I'd never try it now because the other thing I experienced was, it seemed over complicated and I always seemed to be facing the wrong food at the wrong time.

I still like Bill's comment from a while ago:


I just had this "discussion" with a biochemist/athlete on another board who does the Athlete's Zone, and we agreed that we all seem to be sneaking up a very similar diet.

Healthy meats, veggies, nuts, a little fruit, no junk (or my version which generally includes at least 3 big chocolate chip cookies a week - see above re: 50 years)- eat it at little meals during the day and a bigger or really big one at night - workout like a fiend - is that really that radical?

TJOSH

Here's my comment on Berardi from the "simple Question " thread

I just read both articles and some back stuff.

As I said, interesting, but way too body builder obsessed food manipulation for me. The idea you have eat twice after a late night workout is just silly. It encourages the BB mentality about food, if I don't stick to my feeding schedule my muscles will go away. I think htis approach is only indicated if you're trying to carry excessive non-functional muscle without steriods.
_________________

[tjosh]

Berardi's main point on why we should not mix carbs and fat in the same meal is because getting an insulin response at the same time you have fat in your system is more likely to shuttle more fat into the fat cells.

carb protein meals are good post workout because you get the insluin response with the amino acids your muscle needs. it is less likely to be stored as fat post workout because your muscles need it more.

Ellis mentions how fat and carbs are a bad mix as well because of the insluin and fats being in the system at the same time is likely to store even more fat. I think pg 263 in UDS.

just curious if anyone has experimented with this. i now have 2 proten fat meals a day. pretty much warrior style small at midday and bigger dinner. i was thinking of making the one after the workout a carb/protein meal and the other a protein/fat meal.

[humilispuer]

I have been using a protein+carb shakes post workout with great success. My recovery has vastly improved. If you do choose to take the post workout insulin spike, avoid fat for around 2 hours after the meal to avoid "adipose addition."

-Jonathon

[Scotty D.]

Durian - 65%carb, 30%fat.
Jackfruit and cempedak are about 15-20% fat.
These fruits are all of the allium family I believe. Also including fruit like cherimoya and soursop, allium are found in many tropical areas of the world and all with a relatively high fat content.

Durian appears to be the most favoured food within the animal (undomesticated) kingdom, loved with ecstasy by orangutans, elephants, and reports of tigers even attacking humans and taking their durian.

So this is in response to the comment of no whole foods having carbs and fat together. However, I would also strongly urge you folks to check out durian, available in many Asian markets. It is the most sensational food I have ever eaten, and I think it's meaty, rich, and filling nature will quite impress you folk. Intend to ignore the smell (although I really enjoy that too) and just give it a try.

I have been eating very lightly for the last week, to create a transition space between my high-carb (80% carbs from sweet fruit) diet and an experimental higher fat, higher protein, and low-glycemic diet. Since I eat mostly raw vegan foods, I can share with you soon enough about the experience of eating foods such as durian, jackfruit, and goji berry (13% protein with 18-19 amino acids, 8% carb, and high quality EFA's, although I am lost for the fat%).

[humilispuer]

Scott,

If I may ask, what led you to a raw vegan diet?

-Jonathon

[Connie Brown]

Thanks for the info on those exotic Asian allium family.... fruits? vegs?

Where on earth do you hear about these things. i bet not at the church potluck

[Scotty D.]

The first person I met eating raw plant foods was absolutely stunning: clear bright eyes, silky skin, and a laugh from the depths of the universe. When they mentioned they ate raw foods, the idea seemed brilliant to me. From that time 2 years ago I have pursued a keen interest in nutrition and have decided I most enjoy eating fresh, water-rich, living foods. And lots of it!, unlike other raw folk who undereat.

I found out about allium fruit first through reading, and then from travelling in the tropics of Australia. You could try bringing some Durian to the church picnic, however it's also quite the aphrodisiac (in Thailand it is said that in Durian season the pants come down and the skirts go up), and good ol' fashioned fun might get a bit too good, hehe.

[Connie Brown]

You could try bringing some Durian to the church picnic, however it's also quite the aphrodisiac (in Thailand it is said that in Durian season the pants come down and the skirts go up), and good ol' fashioned fun might get a bit too good, hehe.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[humilispuer]

Scott,

Would you mind posting a day's worth of food intake? I'd really be interested to see how many pounds of food you consume on a daily basis.

-Jonathon

[Scotty D.]

Well, here is an average intake of what I was eating two weeks ago.

2 cups of water (w/ MSM and Sea Salt)
4 ounces Himalayan Goji Juice
18 bananas, blended with 2-3 cups of water (w/ MSM, sea salt, and Himalayan Goji Juice)
1 Papaya
2 heads of Romaine, 2 tomatoes, 1 Avocado, seasoning
1-2 ounces Himalayn Goji Juice

I did very well on this type of diet, however I have decided to try out something more like what I'm hearing on this board. So a week or so ago I began a week of undereating (water, a few pieces of fruit, and maybe a bit of salad each day) as a transition period between radical change in my diet. The past two days I have been eating low-glycemic and high protein and fatty foods. This is about what I ate yesterday:

...2 ounces Himalayan Goji Juice
...4 grapefruit
...125 grams Hemp Seed Butter and 6 stalks celery
...1cup Purple Cabbage, 1 Bunch Kale, sea salt, 1/2 cup dried cranberries (soaked), cranberry soak water, 4 tablespoon hemp seed butter, 1 tablespoon coconut butter, dehydrated papaya seeds, 1 cup sprouts, 1 cup sea vegetable
...2 cups water w/ lemon juice, 1 tablespoon spirulina, 2 tablespoon maca, 2 ounces Himalayan Goji Juice, MSM, sea salt
...2 cups Pumpkin Seeds
...200 grams raw almond butter, 1 tablespoon Spirulina, 1 cup purple cabbage


The day before was about like that. I am feel good eating large volumes, so I need to progress with this approach, as I can't keep eating like this; complicated, and very taxing digestively and economically. Today I will undereat, and then the next two days I would like to try eating these foods, however in simpler meals, blending them with cucumbers and other watery vegetables.
"Two steps forward, one step back"

Logistically, I need to get around to picking up some Durian and Young Coconuts, as I like to eat meals of one food only, and these should fit the bill.