A few questions on the Rules

I’ve had my 25-pound clubbells for less than a week and I’m really pleased with them. Although I appreciated the difficulty of doing over 100 mills/swipes as was done in the February competition now I can better put it in perspective, anything over 100 reps is simply awesome. I think probably less than 10% of the general population couldn’t even do one rep!

I have a few questions about Olympic clubbell sport rules. I don’t see anything in Coach Szolek’s manual (Appendix B) regarding the actual switch between hands on the Mills. Is there any particular way it should/must be done? I’ve switched various ways, sometimes passing the club when in the down position (not touching the floor) and sometimes I grab the club with the opposite hand from the chest park position. Also, the appendix only lists the Arm-stop Park as a possible rest position, but page 6A-B lists it as the number one option, not the only. That page also says to see the appendix for these rest positions, but they are not there as I mentioned.

Personally, I like the shoulder and chest parks, these seem like the most efficient, in that your body structure supports the clubbell while resting. All of that said, if I ever compete I don’t intend to rest :) (at least not on the Mills). For training I don’t rest on the 15-pound club, but haven’t done a full 10-minute set yet with the 25-pound club. I did 40-reps per hand yesterday in 5 minutes, but rested seemingly a long time between arms so that my form wouldn’t break down.

I’m also not sure how many reps on the Mills people usually perform before switching sides, I warmed up with 5 and switched to 10, but feel my form breaking down by the 10th rep.

[Scott Sonnon]

Tom,

You've listed efficient positions for resting the Clubbell. If you find your tempo, you won't need to rest; only switch and do active recovery on your free arm (such as Vibration drills.) Strangely enough people thought I was "praising God" with my upward-lifted arm shake. :lol:

The switch primarily regards completing a full repetition with the least amount of overlap. Since the switch must happen before crossing center line (between your legs), and the Clubbell must pass both behind (Shield Cast phase) and in front (Pendulum phase) of your head in order to count as a full rep, then here is the most efficient switch we've found (at this time): After you perform the Shield Cast phase, pass the head in front and swing down, as soon as you cross the center line, it's fair game for a full rep. However, inertia still carries the Clubbell. As it crosses the center line, I let gravity slow it down until it's in free-fall - usually the Clubbell is about parallel to the platform at this point. That's when I switch - when the Clubbell's weight is 'zero'. This gives me the full rep, plus the least energy expended in the switch.

At the first OCS meet, I switched every 12. Just to show the progression, I'm now switching every 35 (which will add approximately 3 reps each switch - not counting any increased RPM speed). You have to coordinate the switch tempo to equal your local muscular endurance, because if you get too much arm pump, you can't reabsorb it in time before you switch back to that arm. Then, it's fish-grip city... and the Clubbell slips out.

As soon as I complete this active recovery cycle, I'll begin my OCS again... I'm shooting to break the 300 barrier.

Let me know if this makes sense.

Thanks coach. Yes, ultimately the resting will be a moot point. I went back and studied the video on the clubbell sport page, and coupled with your description I think I’ve got it. You did not mention how the strap is switched, I can’t see in the video and the strap just gets in my way when I switch this way. For me, the club ends up stopping before I get the switch in and the strap around my wrist. What am I missing?

I did another 5-minute set yesterday with no rest, I know I should be able to work up to 10-minutes. I stopped because that was my goal, oddly when I stopped I thought I could go on but as soon as I shut down I sat down and had a bit of a rest on the floor :) My focus must have been high because I didn’t realize it was the end until the end! Interesting part is that I only added 10 reps, bringing my total to 50 each hand. My swipes are another story, I keep hitting myself in the back! I’ll see what I can do on my own and hopefully will find the answers in the manual, Coach Szolek does address this point but I need practice.

I’ve also been doing some head casts (sets of 5) and bull whips. I finish with wrist casts with my hand choked up on the handle. I’ve been able to eak out 1 rep on the wrist cast with my hand on the end when fresh, but it’s very hard.

Wow, 35 rep sets, very burly! Your tempo must be very fast for you to be thinking about 300 reps, you could use the club as a fan at that speed!

[Scott Sonnon]

If you're competent to compete in OCS, you're competent to not use straps. No one who still needs straps should be doing OCS - is the rule of thumb.

Like any endurance event, if you stop, you're toast. I remember when I ran a 42 mile ultra-distance. Everyone that stopped after 20 miles, stopped for good. Some just fall asleep immediately.

The same is true of OCS. Minimize stoppage in order to prevent CNS shut-down. This is why slower but steadier wins.

People with the highest reps in their first event are not guaranteed victory by any stretch, because it's all about pace. The pause between events for recovery is the killer. At one point I was training to minimize the time I trained between events. Now, I train only to go 10% less than the rest period. Any less, and my body learns to 'shut-down'.

There's a technique nuance in Swipes that you're missing which will up your volume and stop the back impact. The loading portion of the Armpit Cast phase (in Back Position) tips the Clubbell heads UNDER your armpits. This acts as stored elastic energy to release into the subsequent rep - conserves energy, increases volume, and eliminates back impact.

We'll see what the numbers say after my next PHASE IV cycle. Four months of unbroken training changed a lot of my conceptions last time. I'm sure it will again. This sport is too new to know anything for certain (though I guess the same could be said of ANY sport.)

[JClayton]

Coach Sonnon,

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your first post in relation to the OCS rules in the OCS manual. I just want to make sure that I'm practicing the switch properly.



Since the switch must happen before crossing center line (between your legs), and the Clubbell® must pass both behind (Shield Cast phase) and in front (Pendulum phase) of your head in order to count as a full rep...After you perform the Shield Cast phase, pass the head in front and swing down, as soon as you cross the center line, it's fair game for a full rep

It sounds to me here that the rep is counted when the Clubbell passes in front of your head. Is this what you mean when you say "as soon as you cross the center line?" Are you referring to crossing the center line of your face, or crossing the center line between your legs. If you are saying that it is your face, then is it OK to switch anytime after the Clubbell passes in front of your face?

In the manual (p. 31B), as far as I can understand, it says that a rep is completed when the Clubbell passes in front of the legs. This would mean that you can't switch until the Clubbell is starting its upswing after passing in front of the legs.

It might help to have an example. Let's say you are doing a right-handed Mill. Can you start your switch after the Clubbell has passed in front of your face and is now in front of your left shoulder? Or, do you have to wait until the Clubbell has travelled downwards, in front of your left shoulder, left hip, between your legs, and is now starting an upswing on the right side of your body?

Thanks for helping me get it right.

Regards,

[Scott Sonnon]

Justin,

The center line as it passes your legs.

If you're competent to compete in OCS, you're competent to not use straps. No one who still needs straps should be doing OCS - is the rule of thumb.

That's very cool, I don't think I need them, my grip strength is way above my endurance. Still, the rules do state that they are required, have the rules been changed after the 2004 event or after the book was written? It doesn't look like Coach Szolek is using straps in the book, which surprised me because of the rules.



There's a technique nuance in Swipes that you're missing which will up your volume and stop the back impact. The loading portion of the Armpit Cast phase (in Back Position) tips the Clubbell® heads UNDER your armpits. This acts as stored elastic energy to release into the subsequent rep - conserves energy, increases volume, and eliminates back impact.

Yes, this is my understanding of the technique, but haven't been able to put it into practice. I think the problem is that it's a different technique than with a 15, which I can stop by applying leverage.

[Scott Sonnon]

If the manual says straps are required, then it's a typo, actually. Can you check on the page number so we can confirm? It's the first time we heard this.

Someone with your grip strength would obviously easily lever the 15s through Swipes, but the 25s swung for 10 minutes would challenge levering by even grip Gods like Pfister.

Try shoving your elbows vertical, and allowing your elbows to flair out to approx. a 45 degree angle. This should create the gap you need.

Maybe I should have said "lanyards." The rules, Appendix 32A-B, right col., "Clubbell Lanyards, all Clubbells must be equippped with their original lanyards for the safety of the competitiors and spectators. " So, the lanyards are on, then how do I get my hand through the loop on a quick, smooth exchange, I tried and can't do it at all! :(

I can actually do a 15-pound swipe in slow motion, levering it in any position, actually, I do many exercises that way with the 15-pound clubbell to make it more challenging. I'm guessing, but I might be able to do a 20-pound clubbell in slow motion too if I had one, I can't do the 25 that way but who knows, maybe I can work up to it, the club already feels lighter.

[Scott Sonnon]

Thanks for pointing it out. It will be corrected in the 04 version (including the revised qualification tables.)

Remember that the 25s are also longer, so besides the weight, the center of mass extends farther away than the 15s and 20s. When you're levering them through slow swipes, you'll be a monster tearing through the competition!

Yes, I’m very aware of the length difference on the 25, in fact, measured the center of gravity of the club yesterday to determine what the maximum torque on the hand would be with the club parallel to the floor. The center of gravity turns out to be 14.5” from the index finger of a 4-inch wide hand (my hand). This would equate to 25*14.5”* sin(90)= 362.5 Inch-pounds, where sin(90)=1 when the club is parallel to the floor. This same calculation for the 15-pound clubbell yields 157.5 Inch-Pounds. What’s interesting about this is that the 25-pound clubbell yields 2.3 times more torque than the 15-pound clubbell, yet is not even twice the poundage. The 362.5 inch-pounds, while high, is still possible for a reverse Weaver and overhead levers, but unlikely from the front (like a front Weaver stick). Thus, in theory, a strong person could slow swing it in a Mill around the back, once it goes to the front and starts heading down they could only slow it down, not completely stop its motion. The forward part of the swing would be equivalent or even more than the modern Weaver stick world record! Maybe if the hand was twisted around with the Palm up someone could do it.

Can’t tell you how happy I am about the lanyard, I was beginning to think you guys were magic, slipping your hands through the loop of the lanyard as the clubbell is actually swinging.

[Scott Sonnon]

You've got some serious grey matter in that skull, Tom.