what is a density cycle? [Archive]

lorenzodamarith

01-30-2009, 02:30 AM

hello,

recently ran across a thread by coach steer, in which he mentioned a density cycle & pendulums.

so, naturally, couldn't resist asking what this was. about a week ago, coach steer emailed a link and requested it be posted here. apologies for taking so long to to so.

the initial question was:

coach steer? density cycle (of pendulums)? what is this?

here is a cut and past of the email he sent:

"Hey Lorenzo,

I get asked all the time what a Density Cycle is...

So I decided to post this:
http://tinyurl.com/b3rpyl

Pendulums are in your Encyclopedia.

I'm knackered and off to start getting ready for bed. Would you mind posting this link to the forum for me brother?

Cheers,
Adam"

so there you go, tribe, one very thorough explanation of density cycles! big appreciation to coach steer for the writeup! have fun everybody!

thanks

Motedgrange

01-30-2009, 08:29 AM

I had wondered the same thing- thanks for asking.

wiggy1

01-30-2009, 09:17 AM

Density cycles are awesome, especially if you go for a Century cycle. If you ever get the chance to work them into your training, go for it, you won't regret it.

At the IC seminar, Coach Murdock said something to the effect that he had done a Century Density cycle for ALL of the Clubbell exercises :eek:. Now that is a goal to work towards!

Ryan Murdock

01-30-2009, 10:21 AM

Funny you should mention that....

The Density Cycle is one of my favourite training protocols. I'm currently 8 days in to a gruelling Double Density cycle of Clubbell Mills (with the 25) in the morning, and a brutal combination routine called a Metronome (with the 35) in the afternoon.

Haven't done one in quite a while - I'd nearly forgotten how tough they are.

Pairing Density Cycles with the 4x7 format results in an almost unbelievable rate of adaptation.:eek:

chris hansen

01-30-2009, 10:33 AM

a brutal combination routine called a Metronome (with the 35) in the afternoon.

How is a Metronome done?

And thanks for planting the idea in my head. It suddenly sounds fun to work some combination routines.

Ryan Murdock

01-30-2009, 10:41 AM

How is a Metronome done?

It's the final two-handed combination routine from an out of print CST manual called the Core Cadre Curriculum.

It's a bit difficult to describe, but it's basically a side clean to back position, rotate around to side hip root, and cast the clubbell across your body to side muscle out, hold for a second, return to back position, and repeat to the other side.

Atl

01-30-2009, 02:14 PM

Density typically refers to many reps done in a short period of time.

Adam Steer

01-30-2009, 02:34 PM

Density typically refers to many reps done in a short period of time.

Actually, density is just how much work is performed in a given time. It takes load, repetitions, range and time into account. You can have a very dense session or a session which spreads the work out over more time (less dense).

A Density Cycle, as used in CST, is a protocol meant to increase the density of your training. So you are gradually fitting the same amount of work accomplished into a shorter and shorter time frame.

Cheers,
Adam

lorenzodamarith

01-30-2009, 03:46 PM

I had wondered the same thing- thanks for asking.

hello,

motedgrange, no problem. "density cycle", "double density" were spoken of highly by the coaches, but didn't know what it meant (dense obviously). figured if the coaches believed the idea to be useful, then it MUST be useful. ergo, HAD to know.

thanks

lorenzodamarith

01-30-2009, 03:50 PM

out of print CST manual called the Core Cadre Curriculum.

hello,

coach murdock, you do realize, that by mentioning this manual, it has just become a "must have" object? and that some of us are willing to sell illegal egyptian artifacts on the black market to get it?

thanks

Atl

01-30-2009, 04:01 PM

Actually, density is just how much work is performed in a given time. It takes load, repetitions, range and time into account. You can have a very dense session or a session which spreads the work out over more time (less dense).

A Density Cycle, as used in CST, is a protocol meant to increase the density of your training. So you are gradually fitting the same amount of work accomplished into a shorter and shorter time frame.

Cheers,
Adam

I did an escalating density program with dumbbells and barbells once about a year ago. This taught me the value of compressing a workout. I gained about 10 lbs of muscle and lost about 15 pounds of fat. Of course this was my first weight program ever...at least since the Army over 20 years ago...so the success was very tangible. I just did about 30 minutes of exercise 4 days a week and the result was impressive. I imagine a density cycle with Clubbells or kettlebells would be very effective.

lorenzodamarith

01-30-2009, 04:24 PM

Ben Waddell

01-30-2009, 04:39 PM

What you'll find Lorenzo is that most of those things, if not all of them, can occur in a density cycle.

For instance, a density cycle with the clubbells, especially a century cycle and the correct weight of clubbell for you, results in strength gains, hypertrophy, fat loss, and always, conditioning.

Different parts of a century cycle target different areas, as the time spent performing reps results in different effects on the body.

In the early stages of the programme (not the individual workout) you'll see strength gains and then hypertrophic gains in the middle. Towards the end you'll start to gain endurance. Given the right diet and you can definitely bank on fat loss.

lorenzodamarith

01-30-2009, 04:43 PM

hello,

ben waddell, this clears it up a bit! appreciate the info. this "century" cycle is sounding better and better!

well, there is still some clubbell material to investigate before trying the century cycle. but it should be do-able in the near future!

thanks

Atl

01-30-2009, 04:49 PM

hello,

atl, your comment inspires a question.

coaches steer? murdock? can a density cycle be done for ANY purpose? atl describes... "hypertrophy" effect. can density be done for conditioning, strength or fat loss?

thanks

I was not really intending to denote hypertrophy. Some hypertrophy occurs with any weight program...even clubs. Loss of fat and gain of muscle is the goal for most weight programs. One can customize a program for max strength, endurance, or hypertrophy, but all of these elements exist in any weight program to one degree or another. Beginners to weights will almost unavoidably get hypertrophy and fat loss from any weight program. Hypertrophy is caused by time under tension so endurance exercises often cause hypertrophy of one sort or another.

Ryan Murdock

01-30-2009, 05:19 PM

Atl

01-30-2009, 05:28 PM

Coach Haggard

01-30-2009, 05:55 PM

Density cycles are great...Double Density cycles in a 4X7 format totally ROCK! It was Coach Murdock that got me trying that protocol some time ago and it is still one of my favorite ways to organize my personal practice.

Atl, I don't think you will have to worry about losing strength with a body weight only routine. Some of the more brutal strength training I have done (including the most noticeable gains over the training period) were body weight only. Forward Pressure is a good example of this. So are some of the gymnastic exercises I am currently working with. I believe I remember seeing a post by Coach Murdock in the past about being away on one of his assignments and doing "only" body weight routines during his travels. He was pleasantly surprised to find when he got back that he was not only as strong as he used to be, the quality of his body movement and martial arts performance had actually continued to improve over the time he had been away. I have seen him Clean to Flag a Bruiser one handed (might have been 2 Bruisers...I can't remember) at an IC seminar. The results you will see individually will depend on the type of body weight conditioning that you are doing. Coaches Steer or Murdock could point you in the right direction for how to use their program for the results you are looking for.

-Dennis

Adam Steer

01-30-2009, 06:19 PM

I got volume 1, but I am scared to totally abandon my kettlebells and Clubbells for that period of time. If I do this will I experience a loss of strength by going from weighted to body weighted? I have read the book and I understand the concepts inside, but I am hesitant to proceed. I am new to body weight work and I am wondering if I will just trade strength for agility when I want both.

http://gymnasticbodies.com/images/image002.jpg

Somehow I don't think so... :)

Seriously though, (I'm not trying to be cheeky...) you can do some amazing work with bodyweight exercise (http://www.bettersbetter.com/2009/01/body-weight-exercise-for-a-strong-and-functional-physique.html). And as you know, there are programs in the BER ebook for many different goals.

Cheers,
Adam

lorenzodamarith

01-31-2009, 12:55 AM

I was not really intending to denote hypertrophy.

hello,

atl, that much was clear... it looked more like a by product than a goal in and of itself.

this just brought to mind the bodyweight revolution and it's different incarnations. wondered if clubbells could be thought of in that way is all.

appreciate the info though. kinda had the idea that might be the case, but it is good to see it articulated in an easy bite sized chunk like that!

thanks

lorenzodamarith

01-31-2009, 01:00 AM

Lorenzo,

Volume Two of the 4x7 Wave ebook series will deal with Clubbells, and there will be detailed chapters on Density and Double Density Cycles, as well as other training protocols. Coach Steer and I will release that later this year (after everyone's had a chance to really work with Volume One, the bodyweight material

hello,

coach murdock, WOW! MORE STUFF! you guys keep this up and the whole world will have no choice but to get in shape!

this will be interesting, NO DOUBT!

time to go smash a piggy bank...

thanks

Atl

01-31-2009, 01:05 PM

http://gymnasticbodies.com/images/image002.jpg

Somehow I don't think so... :)

Seriously though, (I'm not trying to be cheeky...) you can do some amazing work with bodyweight exercise (http://www.bettersbetter.com/2009/01/body-weight-exercise-for-a-strong-and-functional-physique.html). And as you know, there are programs in the BER ebook for many different goals.

Cheers,
Adam

Yeah I have read the book through thoroughly a couple times. Body weight strength, mobility, flexibility, and agility are major weaknesses with me. That is what brought me here. I can handle heavy weight easily, but indulging this over much is not addressing me as a whole organism I think. I may go for it sooner than later and see what becomes of me.

Ryan Murdock

01-31-2009, 02:59 PM

have seen him Clean to Flag a Bruiser one handed (might have been 2 Bruisers...I can't remember) at an IC seminar.

LOL - I forgot about that. I do singles with the Bruiser pretty regularly, but I did do 2 Bruisers once at a seminar.

Yeah I have read the book through thoroughly a couple times. Body weight strength, mobility, flexibility, and agility are major weaknesses with me. That is what brought me here. I can handle heavy weight easily, but indulging this over much is not addressing me as a whole organism I think. I may go for it sooner than later and see what becomes of me.

Atl,

The best advice I could give you is to choose one program from the book, and set aside all your other training and commit fully to it for 28 days.

If you regress in some aspects of your training, you can always gain that back. If you experience a transformation, it will have been a worthwhile experiment. (I'm confident enough in the material to guarantee the latter.)

But until you commit fully and try it without cocktailing with other modalities, you'll never know, and it'll all be just speculation.

28 days isn't such a long time.

Atl

01-31-2009, 03:51 PM

until you commit fully and try it without cocktailing with other modalities, you'll never know, and it'll all be just speculation

Lol...yeah lately I have been making strange workout cocktails for sure. I think I will do it...it is only time and I am in need of change. I will post about my experience once I start. I will examine the individual programs further to assess what my goal should be.