Interesting article about "Primal Fitness"

[john.sifferman]

This is Erwan Le Corre, the creator of MovNat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI&e

And here is an article in the April issue of Men's Health about Le Corre's health and fitness philosophy. I really enjoyed it and thought some of the RMAX tribe would too:
http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=motivation&conitem=7d7caa4e23adf110VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=1

[Chuck Kechter]

Pretty cool! Thanks!

[Coach Haggard]

Cool article John. Looks like fun :).

[hermanchauw]

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

[hermanchauw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGF-ErsJiI

[deckard]

Wiki - Methode Naturelle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_H%C3%A9bert)

A training philosophy from the beginning of the last century Le Corre referes to.

[shadow]

That stirs something deep inside me.

I see my CST training as the method of me going from an approaching invalid (whilst I say this in jest, the decrepit state of my body prior to learning CST is really no joke as I reflect back on the path I was trodding down) to unveiling my own physical expression.

I see all the structure as nothing but a method to unveil the real play of being in a body.

Thanks for posting this, both made and ruined my day (as I sigh and miss the short time I just spent on an island in the south of Thailand.... - fantasies growing stronger, do I walk past my fear and act on them?)

[john.sifferman]

Just as Scott wrote about in his recent article about the origin and evolution of club swinging, I think fitness as a whole has largely de-evolved in more civilized culture - especially in the last century.

I see Le Corre's MovNat, which is based on Georges Hebert's Methode Naturelle, as a tremendous step in the right direction towards natural and primal fitness - but it seems like an incomplete system at best. There hasn't been much study, it isn't well known, and I imagine it is a difficult system to convey in theory and teach in practice.

In a way, I see MovNat as a more sophisticated and better suited expression of the Vision that CrossFit has - to make trainees capable to tackle most physical skills, to specialize in generalized training. Only, I see that MovNat has obviously skipped all the vain repetition, all the poorly selected and dangerous training protocols, and the idea that working out hard will make you good at everything.

I think that true MovNat practice and performance requires constant FlowState, much like freerunning or parkour that goes beyond simple stunts and actually focuses on efficient and effective travel. And while I know that every movement or skill can be broken down to individual components to make learning easier, I think there's an element of just having to go out and "just do it," challenge yourself, do things you never thought possible - and having a training partner or coach may be the best way to ensure you do this.

I also see something of great value in MovNat - it's intriguing and it looks very fun, almost playful. The best way I can relate is playing at the playground when I was a kid - it was pure joy, and there was many a time that I was in flowstate as a child without realizing or understanding it. I think play is a powerful motivator, and an even more powerful means of ensuring compliance long-term, which for many people is the missing ingredient in their fitness program.

[shadow]

I agree.

And FlowState being the result of the 3DPP I realise the importance of structure.

Which is why I am here with CST... the most complete system I have ever found to properly prepare, formulate (work up to) and recover from any physical skill one desires.... and I see the collaboration of repeated trips up the THP being a process of slowly building the ability to just go out there and express oneself, in whichever way one desires.

Being free with my body appeals greatly to me coming from the bound state I was in (and still working out of). Even before reading this article I have been finding my thoughts drifting towards exploring in this kind of manner.... this may serve to deepen my resolution and in one years time I may be living a different kind of life (if I dare to do something worthy).

Thanks again.

[wildman]

Wiki - Methode Naturelle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_H%C3%A9bert)

A training philosophy from the beginning of the last century Le Corre referes to.

this is the method that both pk and freerunning are both based on. but with a focus on escape and evasion, for the most part leaving out defense.

[Coach Heins]

That's awesome and looks like so much fun.

The first thing that struck me was about how much that reminded me of being a kid. I grew up in a small, isolated community in the Arctic. All we really had to play in was the bush. I used to love to just run and organically move thru, over and around natural obstacles (and not so natural obstacles like the junkyard and the enormous stacked crates of construction material that would get brought in on the winter road). I always remembered how differently (and amazing) it felt compared to just running along the road. I still get out once in a while, pick a direction and just go. It actually feels exhilarating.

The second thing that struck me was the connection this had to what Stuart Brown was saying about the biological importance of play (someone posted it a few threads back): http://www.rmaxinternational.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20181

And, yes, this has significance to survival, but in my experience it's also just alot of fun and feels like I'm playing, perhaps because of the strong association to doing the same as a child, purely for that fact.

Interesting that this could be tapping into two sides of the coin simultaneously.

Thanks for sharing that John!
s.

[Swing Kid]

Great stuff this MovNat. Thanks for the article John.
This thread has really interesting videos and posts.
I would love doing this Jungle workout - but I probably would break my bones. I have to do a lot of GPP and Cleaning The Slate and CST before I can be Tarzan. Too bad.:frown: Tarzan was one of my childhood heroes.:)

[john.sifferman]

Thanks everyone, I thought you would all enjoy the article and video.

Andrea, that's the best approach really - just work to clean the slate each and every day and before you know it, you'll be swinging around like Tarzan.... well, Jane.

I do things today that I thought I would NEVER be able to do again, and much of it is thanks to my practice of CST.

[john.sifferman]

I got a chance to exchange some e-mails with Erwan Le Corre this week, and he noted that has been following Sonnon's evolution and that he likes what he does, and sees a lot of similarities with the CST approach.

I am curious if any of the RMAX coaches have any thoughts or comments about Methode Naturalle or MovNat. Could MovNat be RMAX-powered like other activities?

The main question I have is that MovNat seems to address fitness from a general perspective, training for the unknown possibility of needing to call on many different qualities of fitness. I don't see this with CST, knowing that we move from GPP to SPP, to ASP, to MEP within our training program. No doubt there is an element of GPP and SPP woven into MovNat training, but it seems like that type of exercise must always be both general AND specific. Perhaps once you get into higher levels of CST, in the coaching and head coaching staff, you can begin to mold GPP into all levels? I guess I don't even know what question I'm asking :mad:

Does anybody know what I'm talking about, lol

[Joseph David]

Hi John,

I have always said the world is my playground. In my twenties, I referred Yosemite Valley as my outdoor gymnasium. Developing skills as an outdoor athlete is excellent for connecting with our relationship to mother earth. Yes I'm a bit granola :)

There are similarities between the two methods. One is the application of BME. Erwin’s movements are based on engaging the natural element, rock, trees, and water, earth ect... I liked the bouldering, scrambling under the brush, the boulder hopping, the swimming and diving as examples. Scott's work developed on the mat because of his vocation. Both are to release bound flow and enter the flow state.

If you are to take the CST concepts of incremental progression, compensatory movement to maintain structural balance, and the daily washing of synovial fluid with specific DJM, to those outdoor activities you would have a powerful system of self realization. Not everybody has access to the outdoor life style. CST gives those people a road map to find their flow.

For myself, I consider myself an outdoor athlete. CST is philosophy of expanding the pallet of movement so that as I engage my activities, I am more integrated to find my flow. Know thyself to flow thyself, words to live by. It doesn’t matter where you dig, if you dig deep enough in your personal practice, flow will spontaneously erupt.

[Doughboy]

Joseph is on to something. I, too, am a outdoor activity nut (give me 24 hours in another form and I choose squirrel in a national forest). CST and movement a la guerilla style have a lot in common, or as Mr. Schwartz said in the above post, to release bound flow and find your own flow can be amplified in the great outdoors which gives us a myriad of 'gym equipment' to experiment (without the mirrors, the machinery, the noise, etc. of conventional fitness spas). Back in the 80s, 90s, I and a few friends use to train in a state park of dense redwood forest(which I also took back to the streets of then residency of Oakland). We called it Guerilla Training (didn't know any name "parkour" then). I remember many years ago a video I saw of Salvadoreno rebel special forces of the FMLN guerilla group doing these incredible ninja-like movement through the natural terrain and I said to myself, I want to move like that (the CST natural flow state) and little did I know that a number of years later I would discover CST and Scott Sonnon's methodology.

[shadow]

The main question I have is that MovNat seems to address fitness from a general perspective, training for the unknown possibility of needing to call on many different qualities of fitness. I don't see this with CST, knowing that we move from GPP to SPP, to ASP, to MEP within our training program.

Does anybody know what I'm talking about, lol

Yeah I think I get you.

In MovNat it states there are 10 characteristics (walking, running, jumping, quadrupedal movement, climbing, equilibrism (balancing), throwing, lifting, defending and swimming) to develop.

I see no difficulty with CST fitting in with this.... but rather than focus on all 10 at once, one or two at a time could be trained and developed in a THP cycling (and spiraling upwards) through the attributes on a periodic basis, keeping them all sharp but not trying to hold all of them at once.

For me I would consider the extreme outdoor jungleman stuff towards the top of the THP, around SPS and MEP.

Throw in a CST-style training protocol like 4x7, add in intu-flow and Prasara.... and well.... you have.... CST.

;)

It's not really 'something else' it just needs to be tinkered with a little to fit our format.


Also THP's are not necessarily stand alone triangles.... I think of them as triangles within triangles...

We could be doing several trips up the THP for different skills or attributes that when combined are actually just GPP for an even bigger skill or attribute set.

So I see my CST work for myself as actually going there, where MovNat is.... but in a safe and sustainable manner.

[Ryan Murdock]

No doubt there is an element of GPP and SPP woven into MovNat training, but it seems like that type of exercise must always be both general AND specific.

GPP to SPP etc moves towards a focused goal, whether that's mastery of a particular target skill, gearing up a set of skills towards the specific demands and rule sets of a particular competition, or prep towards the demands of a specific adaptation.

GPP without a goal or purpose short of being "generally fit" is... well... crossfit, among other approaches. That's not meant as a slag of crossfit - it's simply the most well known example of a system which pursues "general fitness."

[hermanchauw]

MovNat's video inspired me to go barefoot even more than i used to.

I was already training barefoot all the time, plus playing games barefooted and walking around in the house barefooted.

The last few days i have been going out to town barefooted. I just keep my slippers in my bag just in case the tarmac is too hot to touch. And i feel alive, i feel mobile, i feel great.

Attracts a lot more attention too with people asking my why i am barefooted. Free advertisement. :)

Someday i want to be able to run and jump on rocks and pebbles barefooted.

One question though: Can you compete in kettlebell sport barefooted?