Ropes Gone Wild

[MSiders]

I bought a new sandbag after my last one broke. The company I bought it from sent out a newsletter talking about fitness trends for 2009, and there was a link to a product call "Ropes Gone Wild".

Here is the link. (http://www.artofstrength.com/OnlineStore/ProductRopes/tabid/180/Default.aspx)

I was just wondering if any of the tribe members have tried this product, and what they have to say about it, good or bad. Thanks.

[Ryan Murdock]

Hey Matt,

The whole rope thing was started by grip god John Brookfield and his "Battling Ropes" a few years ago. This looks to be a version of that.

I saw a demo and tried them once, and I have to say it was one of the most embarassingly stupid fitness gimmicks I'd ever encountered. They're just really heavy ropes. You can wiggle them this way (asymetrically) or that way (symetrically). That's it. There was no system, no real protocol, no method of progression, just a guy with a couple filthy old castaway ropes shaking them around (while hanging onto his increasingly heavy wallet). If I could describe the Battling Ropes in one word, that word would be: silly.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have some kind of training effect, and i'm sure you'd get really tired wiggling those ropes around. But there's nothing special about the ropes themselves and there are a thousand more useful and more specific ways to get a sweat on.

On another note, how do you like the sandbag you bought from them? What did you think of the quality? I'm in the market for another one too.

[Scott Sonnon]

Training methods should be quantifiable. Otherwise they're not training, they're just "work." Unlike training, work is untrackable, unreproducible and usually undesirable in effect. The rope whipping concept produces a lot of work, but the training effect is unknown in my experience with those who teach it.

In the current-day cross-training fad, it's purely about constant variety performed at high intensity. However, regardless of how "functional" an advocate attempts to convince you the activity is, it's the motor sophistication and incremental protocols which determine the efficacy of a concept. Perhaps this use of ropes will evolve in time as serious strength and conditioning specialists start to place it under modern exercise science.

You'd be much better off with a Concept 2 rower, IMO.

However, if you intend on rope work, then I highly suggest my friend David Weck's work on "rolling ropes" - which is all of the "jump rope" training without any of jumping... performed with progressive resistance (heavier ropes, faster rolling, and increasing complexity of skills.)

Here's an intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1y8T58HBFY

David introduced this to me when we were training together at Venice Beach in Socal.

[MSiders]

Coach Murdock thanks for the reply. I figured as it was something silly, just looked interesting.

The sandbag I bought was through Sandbag Fitness Systems, which I am pretty sure is the same bags for sale on that site. I bought one of their bags where you can do incremental loading through various inner bags of different weights. Both the inner and outer bags are made of qualify material. I was really impressed with the inner bags. Not only are they made from a strong leather material, but they have a strong Velcro flap that keeps all the sand in the bag.

I have only used the bag a handful of times, but it takes the abuse of dropping with no problems. The best part is its wife approved, so I get to use it in the house (basement) instead of out in the cold garage.

Coach Sonnon, I am perfectly content with all that CST and clubells have to offer. But curiosty and an attempt to keep from being “exclusively Clubbell®®” I am always looking for things like sandbags, kettlebells, and rings that are great training tools to add to my toolbox.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

wow. that was really really... (insert explative here). useless.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

thanks

[Glenn Sunshine]

For something this silly, isn't it odd that the Tennessee Titans are using it in their training to keep up their conditioning without overworking their legs? The article is at http://www.artofstrength.com/tabid/381/Default.aspx. It evidently does something for the cardiovascular system, even if it isn't quantified yet.

[Coach Clavijo]

That's the thing. It does SOMETHING. What? I dunno...something...

My unit's workouts recently:
- Work on your own, but after you do your own thing, make sure you do half your max of pullups and two more sets, decreasing the number by one each set.
- If you are fat, you work out twice (or more) a day. Most likely a bodybuilding-type split.
- Sprints, bear crawls, pushups, lunges, some speed drill where you step up and down realy fast with both feet on the edge of the sidewalk, crunches
- 2 mile run with sprints thrown in periodically.
- Tomorrow is Plyo X I think (from the P90X infomercial product).

What is this "work" doing? Something... What? I dunno... something...

[DaveRandolph]

The ropes are fun and they teach full body coordination. If you don't do it right the waves don't look good. There are many movements which cover all 6DOF.

Core activation, hip recruitment, leg drive, crown to coccyx alignment, shoulder pack, grip confirmation, breath mastery, and all of the other concept of CST can be found in the rope movements.

And you can climb them or do tug-of-war :D. They are a great cardio tool, strengthen the upper back, shoulders, arms, lats and legs. They can also be used one handed or kneeling or squatting, even doing jump lunges. Reverse grip as well.

They are a good assistance tool and are great for a change of pace for a metcon day

I don't have any of Brookfields stuff so I don't know whether he has a "system", but Diluglio gives a away a rope training dvd when you buy a rope from him. His DVD is just the basics of about 15 movements. On his Santa Monica DVD he shows rope work as additional work between rounds of kb & barbells stuff.

I think he also has a new download that shows how to add ropes to his Providence workout

Give it a try it is challenging, what sucks it that rope is not cheap!

[John B]

I've used the ropes. They're fun, a nice change of pace. I used them in a group setting and found the more coordinated of us were the most efficient with the ropes.

You can perform stationary work or lower body agility drills coordinated with upper body sustained velocity drills.

But I guess you can make the argument as to whether or not the ropes will make you more coordinated or that something such as Intu-Flow® will make you more coordinated, which in turn will make you more efficient at the ropes.

Some of the rope advocates claim you've got two big things at play with the ropes: coordinated movement, especially between upper and lower extremities and sustained velocity. I've seen John Brookfield do similar things with a beach towel. So, in a sense, those interested in the rope concept but not wanting to spend the cash can go to Target and put down $10.95 for a beach towel and perform his Tazmanian Devil exercise. You can then progress out to a bed quilt then a sleeping bag then a mover's bag.

[Coach Jones]

There's nothing empiracally "bad" about the ropes. The question is, do the ropes do anything in and of themselves?

Let me explain...

No matter what the piece of equipment is, it's value is determined primarily by the the protocols and methods that a trainer uses to employ them.

One of the great things about CST is that nothing is done by accident. Any CST program has had hours of development, testing and evalutation in order to ensure that the programs get tangible results but repeatable and quantifiable results.

Too many fitness systems fail, dramatically, in this area. Quality conditioning isn't merely about piling on a random selection of difficult tasks. It's much more than that or at least it should be.

Whenever i'm evaluating a piece of equipment, I look first at it's "unique" properties. What does it do, specifically and how does it do it?

In other words, what does the equipments "design" provide that makes it beneficial to my client(s).

The next thing I look at is ease of implementation. If I think that the piece of equipment does provide a benefit, then it comes down to how quickly and efficiently the client(s) can approximate the quality of movement necessary to properly use it - and thereby recieve the benefit. Does the "learning curve" equal or less than "the benefit - in other words.

After that, I look at training time required for a tool. What I mean here is, how much time am I going to have to spend with specific compensation for the tools use? What are the potential negative training effects (as these exist with ANYTHING and EVERYTHING).

It'e easy for any trainer or coach to become a gear hound. We do love our tools. The thing to be wary of is whether or not we're choosing variety over substance.

In my personal opinion, I could see how something like the ropes could improve coordination - but in what specifically? Is the desired outcome to make them more coordinated in the use of the ropes, or does that coordination extend outward and into other areas.

[Aengus]

That's the thing. It does SOMETHING. What? I dunno...something...

My unit's workouts recently:
- Work on your own, but after you do your own thing, make sure you do half your max of pullups and two more sets, decreasing the number by one each set.
- If you are fat, you work out twice (or more) a day. Most likely a bodybuilding-type split.
- Sprints, bear crawls, pushups, lunges, some speed drill where you step up and down realy fast with both feet on the edge of the sidewalk, crunches
- 2 mile run with sprints thrown in periodically.
- Tomorrow is Plyo X I think (from the P90X infomercial product).

What is this "work" doing? Something... What? I dunno... something...

This is one reason I HATE organized PT in the military. Most of the time who ever is leading PT just throws a bunch of junk together without a specific goal in mind. The other way is do drop and just crank out "X" amount of pushups and situps in "X" amount of sets and then go run. Yeah you can get a "training effect" from it but you also wind up with increased amount of injuries. Plus it's mind numbingly boring!!

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

daverandolph and johnb both said "they're fun..."

amended opinion: NOT useless.

fun is important. not sure about fitness attributes, but based solely on "fun", there is value.

appreciate it guys!

thanks

[DaveRandolph]

I think as a fitness tool they are to new to determine what the benefits may be and they are waiting for someone to determine those quantifiable results.

I'm know when Scott developed CST it wasnt at the same level it is now. He wasn't able to do the extensive testing or bounce new ideas of other because he hadn't built the base of support he has now, mainly all the top coaches like Coaches Jones, Speer, Wilson etc.

I think if we sat down and spent 3 to 6 months training with the ropes and analyzing the results you could easily incorporate them into CST, assuming the results of the research were positive.

Brookfield may do it, DiLuglio may do. Hmmm maybe I should do it ;)

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

daverandolph! it sounds like you have an interesting project before you.

perhaps a 100 day challenge of rope examination.

then we will await the informercials!

"if you want a ropeflex body, you need a geniune ropeflex..."

thanks