Deadliest Warrior

[vvvooo]

Anybody happen to catch the Deadliest Warrior - Apache vs Gladiator? (http://www.spike.com/show/31082)

What's your thoughts?

[tnl1]

mixed bag here. I liked the science behind it, but could have done without so much trash talk. I was hesitant at first, but I suppose running a thousand simulations is statistically sound - assuming the simulation isn't some randomized equivalent of "rock, paper, scissors." I'm betting it's something more along the nature of the fighting engines used in video games today...

I had to admit my own bias, though, being of native descent. :D

I laughed when the Apache representatives noticed Chuck Liddell walking in sporting a mohawk -- "nice haircut." I think the irony was totally lost on Chuck.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

appreciate the link vvvooo! conceptually, this is an interesting prospect.

unfortunately, this version of the experiment makes a LOT of assumptions about the situation:

assumes static environment (different environments not mentioned)
assumes static starting points & distances
assumes full kit for both assailants
assumes alien situation (non arena, non assassination)

unknown optimization/accounting of certain variables:

assailant skill levels
initiative
health levels
equipment quality

as we can see, there is a lot more that could be accounted for.

multiple assailants
improvised weaponry
hostages
environmental dangers (fire, storm, mud, snow, etc.)
cheering crowds
indoors/outdoors

still... interesting to think about.

thanks

[W_Brister]

I hought the concept was interesting, the way they carried it out though was a lil to much more my taste. I watched cause I am a Liddell fan. It felt like they were trying to create an energy and shock
value that just wasn't there. I did like the theories behind the weapons and tactics that both warriors would have used.

[sames]

There was plenty of smacktalk but for a show talking about its combat testing lab they let a lot of comments slide without testing/proving them:

10 pound sword
15 pound helmet
poor visibility with helmet
etc...

All of these statements could have been quickly tested (scales anyone?). A camera in that helm would have been a nice shot, so we could get a feel for the limited visibility.

Also disappointing how suprised they all seemed when a sharp, pointy, steel object penetrated easily into flesh. Ummm... what did they think was going to happen?

[Aengus]

There was plenty of smacktalk but for a show talking about its combat testing lab they let a lot of comments slide without testing/proving them:

10 pound sword
15 pound helmet
poor visibility with helmet
etc...

All of these statements could have been quickly tested (scales anyone?). A camera in that helm would have been a nice shot, so we could get a feel for the limited visibility.

Also disappointing how suprised they all seemed when a sharp, pointy, steel object penetrated easily into flesh. Ummm... what did they think was going to happen?


Speaking as someone with a little bit of experiance in "armored combat", you would be suprises at how much visibility you have in one of the gladiator helmets. As for the weapons, I would imagine that based on my experiance handling both practice and real swords, 10 pounds for a sword is a bit much.

[Coach Clavijo]

:mad:Apache vs Gladiator?!?! :mad:

OH PLEASE!!!
Let's get to a fight people actually care about...

Pirate vs Ninja
:punk::punk::punk:

http://bigdaddyseashell.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/juror2-piratevsninja.jpg

[tnl1]

any early bets on next week: viking vs. samurai? haha

[W_Brister]

:mad:Apache vs Gladiator?!?! :mad:

OH PLEASE!!!
Let's get to a fight people actually care about...

Pirate vs Ninja
:punk::punk::punk:

http://bigdaddyseashell.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/juror2-piratevsninja.jpg

Let's test it out and send some ninjas over to Somalia....

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

gotta agree with aengus about weapon wieght. typical gladiator weapons (sword in particular) tended to be light. less material is cheaper to manufacture.

a katana, (bastard sword type), weighs about 7 pounds. this is a larger weapon than the gladius (short sword type) which wieghed approximately 4.5 - 5 pounds.

forgot also to mention before... different gladiator stables had different styles/skill specialties as likely apache tribes did.

that will change a lot of the combat dynamic at work in an individual event.

as far as pirate vs. ninja? ninja. pirates possessed many of the same skills, but the ninja developed those skill to a far higher level (professionally trained).

in sword to sword combat, remember, contrary to popular media, ninja were actually high level samurai... HIIIIIIIGH level.

no pirate would stand a chance unless armed with flintlock. even then... not sure.

ninja were commandos, taking all of the battlefield skills of samurai and adding the clandestine skills of spys and assassins.

poison use, improvised weaponry, physical conditioning, mental conditioning, higher quality equipment, infiltration skills, terrorist tactics, small unit tactics, zealot level motivation... not to mention, elite level individual combat skills.

even if giving the pirate the home court advantage... ship to ship combat, we can look at examples of japanese skillset in this area.

japanese ship to ship combatants were called "wako" (wah-koh) from whom we get the word "whacko". while the may have appeared crazy to europeans, they were not.

the major difference between wako and pirate is professional training. pirates fought more like a mob, wako, like marines.

consider then that many ninja (elite samurai commandos) also trained with wako, in case they should need to operate in that environment (and frequently they did).

on this basis alone, the ninja is out of the pirates league.

no contest. or rather, extremely short contest.

thanks

[Coach Clavijo]

I do appreciate the thorough analysis Lorenzo, but I feel like maybe the joke was missed...?

Pirates vs. Ninja is an internet meme.... haha? Anyone? :(

[Glenn Sunshine]

a katana, (bastard sword type), weighs about 7 pounds. this is a larger weapon than the gladius (short sword type) which wieghed approximately 4.5 - 5 pounds.


Your numbers are way off. A European bastard sword weighed around 3 pounds; two handers were typically under 5. A shortsword (gladius) would have weighed in at slightly above two pounds. Put differently, swords were light and fast. If you have any doubts, check the weights on surviving specimens in museums (e.g. the Higgins Armory in Massachusetts) or look up the numbers on reputable reproductions rather than S.L.O. wallhangers (Sword-like Objects).

[lorenzodamarith]

If you have any doubts

hello,

glenn sunshine! howdy amigo! figured the gladius might be off, wasn't sure by how much though. katana though... six pound block of steel to construct the blade, then half pound to pound of hilt depending on size and substance.

refered to bastard sword by function. while katana and euro bastard obviously not the same, it is used in the same way (1 or two handed).

but no doubts.

in any case, you definitely proved that the tv estimate of ten pound sword is out of the question.

you da man, man!

thanks

[lorenzodamarith]

I do appreciate the thorough analysis Lorenzo, but I feel like maybe the joke was missed...?

Pirates vs. Ninja is an internet meme.... haha? Anyone? :(

hello,

nkotb? internet meme? what is this?

thanks

[Glenn Sunshine]

I don't know how much steel a katana started with, but the final weight was generally under 3 pounds once again. Check surviving specimens as well as modern reproductions.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

ok tribe... glenn sunshine officially rocks!

yep. sure enough, about 2-3 pounds. hmmm. had no idea about that. they start with a six pound block. not sure why so much would be lost thought.

hmmmm. metallurgy... not a strong point apparently. no swords on the short bus, neh? hahahahahahaha!

wow. it's almost as if glenn sunshine studies this kind of thing. oh wait! HE DOES! useful guy to have around.

thanks