Modern Day Tarzan

[Aengus]

Neat Article. Sounds like it would be a heck of a vacation.


http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=motivation&conitem=7d7caa4e23adf110VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=1

[hammer_2020]

I like this article. It reminds me of the philosophies of physical ascetics from multiple cultures who cultivated fitness by living a strengthening lifestyle rather than doing discrete exercises per se.

EDIT: Come to think of it, last year, I was thinking about a way to categorise the entire sphere of natural, useful (functional, if you will) movement. Looks like Georges Herbert went and did it almost a century before I was born!

[Scott Sonnon]

Yes, though I must throw in the caveat... This article may be emphasizing form following function. That is 100% true, but function must follow mobility, and mobility must follow health.

Too many young people (and brash minded adults) read an article like this, and decide to go for a free-climb or a big dive... or even climbing a tall tree, only to end with serious injuries. Remember that this is a performance art which must be trained.

For instance, watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4nmu6mZd4s - these are the remedial drills involved in MovNat. Look familiar?! It should. Absolutely a parallel to CST exercises (though we have a different system of development). Notice that any of the exercises displayed involve incremental development like any functional training system, except that the tools are at-hand, rather than engineered. Nothing wrong with at-handedness (I'm a fan.) My point is that just because it's a beautiful landscape, and the performances are demonstrated artistically by young, trained athletes, doesn't mean that because we once were restricted to training at-handedness that we can just "dive in."

Incremental progress in any art. Skill development!

It's all CST.

[Aengus]

That's true Coach but spending a childhood in the woods playing in the trees like that sure makes me miss it. :)

[Scott Sonnon]

True that brother.

[hammer_2020]

I was hopeless at rope-climbing but an ace tree-climber when I was in the boyscouts.


Yes, I was a scout. Once. Then I got kicked out for eating a brownie.

[Johnny Bird]

I agree! - definitely an inspiring article, but it should inspire us to wisely challenge ourselves.

Also, not everyone has the financial wherewithal to hang out in an exotic locale for a couple of weeks.

I recently spent 3 weeks at a lake cabin with no Clubbells handy. However there was a kayak with no rudder and some choppy water with no current… so I started a routine of 20-30 minutes of kayak ‘sprints,' followed by a few trips underwater up and down a 75 foot dock using only my arms to pull myself along by grabbing the posts. After 3 months of FlowFit, Intu-Flow, and Clubbell work, my body just craved this type of movement, and I was able to jump in and do it. It was a great way to train & I felt like a kid at summer camp…

Ideas like MovNat may not be realistic ways for some of us mere mortals to train. I think that CST provides the knowledge and tools in a much more accessible and thorough manner to get out in the world and play…

[john.sifferman]

That's a great article. I've got it the magazine page clippings on my desk here.

I've been working with Erwan to help him bring MovNat to the United States. His O-1 Visa just went through a couple weeks ago, meaning he will be able to teach his system in the U.S. for the next 3 years. He's got several week-long seminars scheduled for the next month in West Virginia that sold out in a matter of days, and from there, I think he's going "on tour" around the country to do smaller workshops and seminars. He and I are planning one for the New England area sometime this Fall, if anyone is interested. I know he's coordinating similar events nationwide.

Erwan will be the first to admit that MovNat is fully scalable to anyone's fitness level, and that you can't dive right into the advanced movements that he demonstrates in his videos. He teaches incremental progression, the same as CST.

Good movement is good movement, and good coaching is good coaching.

[john.sifferman]

PS - I forgot to mention this other thread with a discussion about MovNat:

http://www.rmaxinternational.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20229

[hammer_2020]

Coach Sonnon raised an interesting point about compensations - what would be the core compensations for MovNat? I saw pigeons, lunge and hurdle stretches in that first video, for instance.

[john.sifferman]

James,

Erwan would be the best person to answer, but I wouldn't think there are any "core" compensations from a CST standpoint. It should be intuitive based on the trainee's current needs, just like Prasara should be ultimately.

MovNat teaches that the body always has another trick up its sleeve, there are many many different ways to perform a certain movement skill. One form of climbing or defending may require different compensations than another.

Another thing to keep in mind is that natural movement has a way of compensating for the body's overspecialization's in and of itself.

[Jarlo Ilano]

Another thing to keep in mind is that natural movement has a way of compensating for the body's overspecialization's in and of itself.

Though I am perhaps uninformed about your definition of "natural movement", I have to disagree with this statement.

Particularly because "compensation" is a specific term in the CST vernacular. Every movement activity (whether fitting the description of "natural" or not) has to be compensated for.

Coach Sonnon's system of the determination of the necessary compensations for a chosen activity are a part of the Poise Analysis and CST Assessment curriculum.

I say this not to start a "CST vs. MovNat" discussion, but simply as a statement of the distinction that CST places on what is termed Compensatory Movement. This is very clear to those that progress through the CST certification process.

[john.sifferman]

Thanks for the clarification, Jarlo. I can rephrase my point to say that natural movement has a way of correcting imbalances in the body on its own, although I haven't encountered a system that teaches this yet (maybe Erwan does with MovNat, I'm not sure).

I think this was the original intent of "cross training." The idea was, if you compete in road races, putting a lot of miles in every week, it's a good idea to incorporate some strength training, swimming, and/or cycling to help prevent injury from your main activity. I find this a little "franken-type" for a solution, and I haven't found a system that teaches this comprehensively until CST, which uses Prasara as a DIRECT approach for dealing with overspecialization's.

The problem is that coaches who teach the "cross training helps prevent imbalances in-and-of-itself" mentality assume that by simply swimming, all your running problems will go away, which is obviously not the truth. Yes, swimming will have beneficial effects on the body that will help improve running performance and longevity, but it's difficult to say how it directly correlates.

Anyways, I'm rambling, but believe me! I'm looking forward to putting all the CST bits and pieces I've collected over the years into a comprehensive whole next week in Bellingham!

[Scott Sonnon]

The belief that cross-training magically compensates for itself argues against SAID: specific adaptation to imposed demands. The body does not adapt in general, but only perfectly specific to the movements it repeats.

Whenever a movement is repeated, the entire body (myofascial matrix) is utilized: head to toes, core to fingertips. If done with sufficient stress to cause an adaptation (duration, intensity, etc), then the body adapts to that pattern of utilization. This creates some strength and other deficits, as no exercise can somehow magically increase benefit across the entire matrix equally (not even gravity). Certain tissues start compensating for the deficits of that pattern; while others become compensated (inhibited). Unless strengthening the precise movements in the functional opposite of the compensated tissues, and releasing the range of tension in the compensating tissues, first the individual will meet diminishing returns from practice, then plateau, then regress, then pain, then injury, then illness, then death. That is a physiological law that cannot be subverted.

The belief that doing a range of exercises (promoted by too many organizations, like Crossfit) will somehow subvert the law of specific adaptation is uneducated and negligent regardless of ignorance. And the more recent offshoot of functional training which can be categorized as "primal" adopts an even more ignorant, romantic belief that simply because you're not using modern technology and you're outdoors, then you're exempt from the laws of conditioning.

MovNat is only one example of many. Many espouse the core belief that "moving naturally" benefits the organism better than "unnatural movement." This is a belief system without merit, research or even rational forethought. The body only adapts. It cannot distinguish between types of tension (a tree or a barbell). It only knows tension. Unfortunately, people romantically believe that lifting a tree will be better for them because it's "more natural" than a barbell, and then proceed to not use incremental progression, not perfect form, etc. The laws of training do not somehow disappear when using non-optimal tools.

The "primal movement" belief system is a spin-off meme from "primal nutrition" - the belief system that we should eat like our 100,000 old ancestors ate because we have not physiologically evolved since that time period. There are definitely good research papers on the nutrition side (and some that are absolutely garbage!) However, the belief in "primal movements" is totally unsubstantiated with research (or even longevity: saying that a movement is "old" and "natural" does not make it so, and does not make it any more pristine or desirable than movements castigated as "new" or "unnatural." Good form is good movement. That's all the body knows. But even good form creates imbalances unless otherwise specifically adapted to, since no exercise, program or tool is exempt from physiological law.

Compensatory Movement is a specific technique which I created because of my genetic disadvantages. I needed every technological advantage (by technology, I refer to mental advancement) in order to surpass those who were genetically superior to me - who could become fit just by throwing around a tree. Now, at 40 I am pain and injury free, stronger and more agile and able to learn now skills faster than those half my age; and those who once competed against me as my genetic superiors are crippled, pining storing about their "glory years." My glory year, so far, is right now. Tomorrow it will be tomorrow. Because of Compensatory Movement - the formula for immediately balancing the compensated/compensating cycle of specific adaptations in the myofascial matrix through advanced biomechanics and biotensegrity.

I must reiterate: I love the outdoors. I love playing with animal (like) movements, and at-hand (improvised) equipment. But don't get enamoured with it. Don't forget that this is both art and science. Youth and romance must be tempered with experience and education. And by all means, if you want to reinvent the wheel, then go ahead. However, a belief is a meme... it's an insidious threat to logic because it presents itself as truth, when it's actually just an unverified (and in this case invalid) idea.

The RMAX faculty will introduce C.M. at the CST IC, though it's more exhaustively implemented at the Poise Analysis stage (CST II).

[Joseph David]

I would like to add one comment, to this discussion. In my experience, my spirit is happy and grounded when I interact with the natural environment. I think that people, in general, lack the connection to nature and its cyclic effects on our health and well being. Outdoor activities, and Creations natural obstacle course, rebuild the bridge that reconnect us to the earth. Reconnecting is only one aspect of returning to balance.

[john.sifferman]

That all makes perfect sense to me, Scott. Now, are there other methods of compensatory exercise that CST utilizes other than Prasara BodyFlow Yoga?

I know 90% of my questions will be answered at the CST IC. So, I don't mean to press you. C.M. is one of the areas I understand least about in CST, and I want to be prepared :)

[john.sifferman]

Joseph, I feel the same way brother. There are few things I enjoy more than learning about our natural environment through direct exposure to this wonderful world we live in. A full day spent indoors just drags on me. Here's a great quote by one of my favorite authors...

The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside, somewhere where they can be quiet, alone with the heavens, nature and God. Because only then does one feel that all is as it should be and that God wishes to see people happy, amidst the simple beauty of nature. – Anne Frank

[john.sifferman]

Just found this post with a comment from Erwan answering the question "what makes movement natural?" http://www.mattmetzgar.com/matt_metzgar/2009/07/natural-core-training.html

[Coach Jones]

John,

All of your questions will be answered at the IC, no worries there.

Compensation...PROPER compensation is one of the hinge-pins of CST. It's one of the major reasons that despite a degree of athleticism or strength, that other people who would try to copy the CST methods fall short.

I understand what you're saying about being outside in the great outdoors. Personally, I prefer the not-so-great indoors - but that's just me.

The thing with training is, as Coach says, it's training. While we may feel an affinity for climbing trees, or running through the hilly brush our physical bodies don't make a disctinction. They perform as asked, adapt to the challenge, and the adaptation causes it's own problems and issues - all of which must be compensated for.

There are a lot of things out there that place an emphasis on something being "natural". Sometimes these things are good. Other times they're just things.

What is "un-natural movement"? I would classify un-natural movement as movement in which you either directly and promptly cause injury. Like bending your elbow the wrong way. Everything else is natural.

Then you have movement like that which is only done in the conventional gym environment. Trying for "isolation" for example. Movement which doesn't tranfer directly over to function. Not the best, not something we shoot for here by any means - but still natural movement.

Like Coach said, there's nothing wrong with beign outdoors, running, jumping and climbing trees but like everything else they required certain skills and attributes. Those have to be developed and sophisticated. They have to be trained and that training needs to be compensated for.

A very persistant problem in the fitness/conditioning industry is people taking very specific skill based activities and trying to make them apply to the general population. Like neck bridging for fitness or having non-active, overweight people try to approximate sophisticated martial arts moves, or basing clients training on toughness rather than building a solid foundation of fitness and conditioning first. Regardless of how "natural" the training is, it has to be about the individual whether than individual is a world-class athlete, couch-riding sloth, or someone in between. A good fitness system should be able to serve all at all times.

[john.sifferman]

Thanks for your comments everyone. I think I've got most of my questions answered well enough to hold me over until next week.

Naturally, my mind is racing with ideas. Having just recently ordered Christopher McDougal's book called Born to Run, which goes into great detail about the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico whom are renowned for running great distances over rugged terrain well into old age, I'm wondering how people can do this for their entire lives and stay free from pain and injury. They are what can be considered extreme specialists in long distance running, and as far as I know, they don't practice anything resembling CST's Compensatory Movement.

Obviously, we're talking about a very different culture with very different lifestyles. It's just fascinating because this is something completely foreign to our physical culture - and it's downright rare. Anyways, that's what's been boggling my mind lately.

[Scott Sonnon]

John, research vs myths. What research was conducted on the tribe: chronic pains, functional capacities, injuries sustained, percentage of longevity, other cultural movement patterns (many indigenous cultures intuitively included compensatory movements to their daily activities in their tribal dances), level of mental and emotional stress (CNS stress is one of the leading influences to fascial injury propensity so if stressors are low as in indigenous cultures injuries decrease and longevity increases despite often ridiculously danger hunting, rituals, tribal fighting, etc).

You're young brother and that makes you impassioned. It also leads to potential susceptiblilty to romantic notions that don't match the reality and facts... In this case regarding the practices and rituals of different cultures. For twenty years I've been traveling and studying different cultures... And what I discovered is that universally the eloquent hyperbole such as in the posted article romantically skew the reality. There's nothing that I can say to you to convince you otherwise other than what my mentor once said to me, "Mr Sonnon, first one Lives; then one philosophizes!"
I highly encourage you to go abroad and investigate personally. Writers reflect their
emotional impression since we remember events chemically. The reality is much less romantic and much more sobering than any 2nd hand knowledge could convey (hence why I encourage you to go abroad and discover for yourself.)

[Coach Jones]

Just as a sidenote...

A while back I too was interested in Mr. McDougal's claims in the book. Here's what I found out...

The Tarahumara Indians are not a secret tribe and haven't been for a few hundred years. Anthropolgists have documented the tribe on many, many occasions. The lifespan of the Tarahumara is very short. On average, they die very young.

While it is absolutely true that some of the Tarahumara are able to run great distances, this is the product of conditioning and training for this from a very young age. It is not the majority that are able to do this despite the focus on training the young.

The majority of the tribe are more concerned with raising what crops they can and tending to the animals as well as gathering water which is in very short commodity.

Most in the tribe sit by and bet on the races in which a very few of the tribe run in comparitively.

As far as untra running goes, McDougal makes the claim that those who run 100 miles a week and I quote, "never get injured". This is not only misleading but entirely and fundamentally untrue. Ultra runners are plagued by the exact same issues as other runner only with the added bonus of kidney failure - always fun.

Now i'm not knocking ultra running, nor the Tarahumara, or even McDougal. In fact I agree with his beliefs regarding over engineered footwear being a problem. Where I had to take issue was with the way he presented and continues to present his information. The secret is, there aint no secret. Like Coach says, it's about personal experience. Find something that resonates and commit, do the practice, own the practice then evaluate.

It's always tempting to latch onto the idea of a secret, or some group of people who have "figured it out". The problem is that while it's appealing and does have quite a draw, you have to research it yourself from an unbiased position, one where you're not trying to prove it or disprove but rather just take in the facts.

If you really want to find out about the "secret tribe" there are many travel agencies from which you can book a package deal and go with a group down to the Copper Valley and see them first hand. The travel agencies have been running these offers since before McDougal could spell Tarahumara.;)