Everyone's THoughts on this article I saw

[Jay76]

saw this post and thought i post it here to see what everyone says about it....


I KNEW that I was gonna get comments from guys like you after my post.

See your problem is that you think something is "good" because it is effective. There is no doubt that deadlifts are an excellant power builder, however the exercise itself is dangerous and will eventually catch up to you one day.

I'm 38 years old and have been pumping heavy iron consistenly since the age of 15 and now I'm paying the price. I was a former bodybuilder and my maximum full squat was 630lbs, my bench in the mid 400's, and I would do bent over rows with 315lbs for reps.

I've ALWAYS used good form and I'm telling you that heavy weightlifting will eventually hurt you. You will suffer from at least joint pain/arthritis. All the years of heavy lifting will take its toll on your tendons and ligaments which will get more brittle over time which is dramatically sped up by years of heavy lifting.

I tore my lower biceps tendon off the bone from hitting the heavy bag. Why? Because my tendon had some degeneration from years of heavy weightlifting. My shoulders ache at times, my fingers get numb when I ride a bike, etc.

ALL the guys I know who pumped heavy iron over the years who are now in their 30's or 40's have some pain, chronic injuries, or surgeries.

Some exercises are worse than others and deadlifting, just like heavy squats are just not healthy in the long run. They put tremendous strain on your joints and lower back. They are WAY to easy to injure yourself on by raising your rear just a tad too high which transfers tremendous forces to your lower back.

But I know that you wont listen to me because I never listened to any of the old farts either.

But one day you'll see..........just as I do now. =(

[Scott Sonnon]

Jay,

What purpose does it serve to import a potential flammable argument into an insulated area?

If you notice the nature of this forum is direct, progressive, positive and personal. This isn't a forum for protracted "industry" wars.

I'm confident that a controversial argument was not your intention and you meant no ill-will. However, if you look at the sad state of other forums with their diet wars and Jedi wars and bodybuilding wars, they all diminish the potential SIGNAL by congesting their forums with NOISE. Let's keep the Signal clear by deliberately manicuring out potential noise.

This forum is for CST related topics and how to improve your personal training. If you have a relevant personal training issue, please state that specifically, rather than importing someone else's argument (especially considering no reader understands the contexts in which this individual's post was made.) If you state your personal issues, CST enthusiasts and instructors may actually contribute relevant and practical suggestions which will be of immediate and long-term use to you.

Please restate your above post in your own words what concerns you have regarding your personal training and goals.

[Jay76]

Sorry Scott. I did not think of that way at all. I do not to make any agruments. Thought it would be good to dicuess..no intention of making arguments. Sorry for the post..Just delete it....Again I apologize

[Scott Sonnon]

Jay,
Like I said, no worries. My response intended to clear any confusion of people who would respond, and those who would respond to each other in a downwardly spiraling polemic.
Don't sweat it.
Please just post YOUR specific concerns about how such a thing impacts your personal training and any questions or suggestions you may have.

[bob_stra]

Here are some quick points off the top of my head -

Like Pavel wrote "most experts don't know enough physiology to have sex, let alone advise others". What passes for proper form in most gyms is...bad ;-) People immitate those around them without thinking.

IMHO The "correct" way to do any movement is in a manner that the movement can be reversed easily at any point. Controlled. And that's different for different people. You have to experiment with your own body, not just "hhhhhhhhrrrggghhh PULLLLLL!!!"

You can counter that by saying "but what about momentum?" Well, what about it? (besides which - deadlifts aren't meant to be a momentum lift IMHO)

> I've ALWAYS used good form and I'm telling you that heavy
> weightlifting will eventually hurt you.

Sure - everyone has a bad day, gets stressed, or is rushing. Eventually we all do something stupid. But, saying that natural motion, (done "correctly" (for you), will hurt you is strange to me.

> You will suffer from at least joint pain/arthritis.

Arthritis is a catagory of inflammatory diseases which are multifactorial. Ironically, weight training is one of the strategies use to combat it.

>All the years of heavy lifting will take its toll on your tendons and
>ligaments which will get more brittle over time which is dramatically
> sped up by years of heavy lifting.

Ligaments are thixotrophic. They recieve nutrition via the ground substance when compressed. Compression is essential for healthy ligaments and cartiliage.

If you want, I'm happy to bore you with more anatomy & physiology. ;) Better yet, visit the SuperTraining group and search the archives.

Long story short - if you know what you're doing, you can do what you want.

[edd]

Jay,

I'm 55 years of age, no ill effects from resistance training at all. And I'm looking forward to new variations in my training by introducing Clubbell training into my regime.

You made a point, be it the right forum or not and Coach Sonnon made a very good point. But discussion is always good, argument and dogma always bad.

Everyone should understand that heavy weight training, no matter what it is, hurts you just a little. We recover / heal / we over compensate and hence improve. Everybody is different, some people recover quickly. Some people recover slow. Some can't handle the load and injure themselves.

From what you wrote in your comment I’m thinking: How strong did you think you could be, at some point the weight of the door is going to buckle the hinges.

The thing that has attracted me to investigate Clubbells and CST is the involvement of minor muscles and the need for coordination and proprioception. The involvement of the core and the concepts of “useful strength.”

All resistance exercise is potentially injurious if approached with ignorance. The wrong information and training regime is a lot more injurious then any specific exercise.

I’ve resistance trained for twenty five years, I started when I was 30 years of age. And this training has help repair my injuries not exacerbate them.

[James Boelter]

Jay, wanted to add my nickel's worth (inflationary times) of response to this post. I think the actual best answer to the dilemma raised by this poster can be found in this month's edition of CST Magazine, in Coach Sonnon's article, 'The End of GPP'. What most athletes and coaches hate to admit is that, at some point, sheer progression, intensity, and volume have to abate, and sophistication has to come into the training picture. That sophistication can take many forms. The coaches on this forum can delve into the realms of ROSS and Body-Flow far better than I ever could, so I would like to use the example of a class act who shows another way to 'sophisticate'.

John McKean is a master's lifter who has won World Championships in his age and weight classes in "all around lifting" competition (the 'odd lifts' such as the Bent Press, the Turkish Get Up, the Two Hands Anyhow, etc). The man is in his supposed 'Golden years' of retirement, and yet every year he posts better and better numbers in any number of incredibly challenging lifts. How does he do it? I point you to his article on the Dragondoor site, 'Constant Training' and '3x3 Training'. He takes a fairly challenging weight for an exercise, (but not a life threatening one) and he practices with it almost daily for long cycles. And he doe NOT increase the resistance after an initial break in. The implication of the article, (and I think this is because McKean is a modest man who wouldn't use such terms) is that he treats each lift as a practice to be mastered - in other words, he 'THINKS INTO' the lift, and strives to perform it with better form and concentration and intent each time he lifts it. Not to take away from the dedication and focus of the PL's and bodybuilders who sustain the kind of damage mentioned in the post, but I think McKean shows that they are still substituting volume and effort for quality and focus. He gets his results with 9 reps instead of dozens. That alone contributes to his health and long lasting career.

Also, I think that because he practices a VARIETY of lifts, and because technique is so vital to completing these lifts, or even getting the weight off the ground in the first place in a lift such as the Two Hands Anyway, he bypasses the 'over use'/'grinding' injuries that inevitably come from pressing extremely heavy weights in the same grooves over and over again.

I've had a few brief correspondences with John, and he is a classy guy. If you can, track down some of his articles in the back issues of Stuart McRoberts' 'Hardgainer' magazine for a better view of how to train for the long haul, have some fun, and still be a complete human being.