Body Flow and Dead Lift

[Ronald Seoane]

Coach,

Bear with me on this. I am trying to understand something.

I have the nuances of a dead lift 'pictured' in my mind. I know each step.

Here's the question. Is it a bad thing to think that if I do one step incorrectly when doing a dead lift that I will get hurt? I'm thinking that this is not a self-fulfilling prophecy. Am I getting to deep into trying to understand the concept of Body Flow?

I'm not asking this question simply because of the article that the original 'poster' posted. I am in the second week of a PTP cycle.

Keep in mind that I said yesterday that I am on my second read through the book. I imagine I'll have a 3rd and possibly 4th read through, by the time I am done.

[bob_stra]

Of interest?

http://www.enhanced-performance.com/nideffer/articles/Injury.html
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bing/oversite/sportpsych.html
http://www.enhanced-performance.com/nideffer/articles/article19.html
http://www.dolfzine.com/page210.htm
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/csa/vol26/table.htm

*Ok, I swear to sweet baby jesus, I won't post another thing for at least a few days. Sheesh - this place is addictive.

Sorry all.

[Ronald Seoane]

I checked all the sites recommended. Lot of useful information. But, my focus is on "Body Flow". These sites do not actually answer the question I asked.

Thanks

[Scott Sonnon]

Is it a bad thing to think that if I do one step incorrectly when doing a dead lift that I will get hurt? I'm thinking that this is not a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Thinking" or cognitive involvement if for PRACTICE. TRAINING begins when you no longer need to "think" your way through the performance goals of the exercise (Body-Flow p72 for Skill Development Stages.)

Am I getting to deep into trying to understand the concept of Body-Flow? No, not too deep. Deeper is better. However, you're not going deeper by "thinking" your way there. "Thinking" keeps you at a shallow level of development in Body-Flow (which is why it is the first stage of the Skill Development - a necessary stage, but only the first.) Remember that Body-Flow intends to limit how much cognitive involvement you have in an activity. Find the performance goals in your lift, create a mantra which integrates your breathing, structure and movement with each performance goal. Limit them in number as much as possible. Read Bob's suggested links.

[bob_stra]

I checked all the sites recommended. Lot of useful information. But, my focus is on "Body-Flow". These sites do not actually answer the question I asked.

Thanks

I meant it as a "read between the lines" kinda deal.

Specifically then -

> Here's the question. Is it a bad thing to think that if I do one step
> incorrectly when doing a dead lift that I will get hurt?

A bad thing (TM)? Like will you go to hell for it? No ;-)

But. If you hesitate at the wrong moment to "save yourself from getting hurt", then yes, you could end up hurting yourself. For example, I saw a guy today (carpenter) who fell off a three foot ladder and managed to tear his pec. major. How the hell do you tear your pec major falling down off a baby ladder? Well, he tried to counter act the fall by grabbing onto the ladder. He was subconciously afraid to fall.

Counter point - you can get hung up on "getting it right" (TM), become frustrated, get impatient and hurt yourself anyway. I've done that a *shitload* of times.

"Hnnnngh. Hnnnnngh. Damn it, I'm gonna bridge this guy off me, no matter what! Hnnng AAARRGGHHH *CRACK*"

"Hnnngh. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do this front ground engagement. HNNG. JUMP. *splat*

Conclusion - body and mind are not seperate. Honestly. The way you feel think and percieve affects the way you move. Ever wonder where little gems like "geeze, he's down in the mouth" or "Weight of the world on your shoulder" come from?

Learning any movement comes in three statges. The first stage, (Cognative), should be characterised by minimal resistance. Not only does it decrease fear of injury, but it speeds up the aqusition of skill.

http://tinyurl.com/qa30

Also try a search on +somatic +emotion +injury via google. Invariably, that should lead back to some of the orignal links I posted on sports psych. Imagery plays a big role.

But, I'm afraid, it's all read between the lines stuff

> Am I getting to deep into trying to understand the concept of Body-
> Flow?
IMHO, exactly on the right track. But it's a twisty, winding, kind of a track. Still kinda on it myself ;-)


Sorry. I'm not meant to be here.

*vanishes in a cloud of smoke*

[Ronald Seoane]

Bob,

Thanks for the insight. I did read the article that you recommended in your last post. It all makes sense.

When reading Body-Flow or any article, I believe in the 'eating' method. I take things in small chunks; they're easier to digest. However, I first look at the 'big' picture; then, I break it down. Like with Body-Flow, I read it through first for the basic ideas. Now, I am reading it again in chunks.

[jackreape]

Grip it :evil:

Rip it :oops:

actually not that simple. You need to visualize and practice your form from warmup through work sets. Then let it flow.

When you get ready to pull you need to have just one or two "swing thoughts"-to steal an idea from golf teachers. If you are worried, doubtfull, or fearfull with any PR weight or movement, you are dead. I focus on technique as i train and do the same bar approach every time. When i pull in a meet i think two things. "Squeeze" and "back". They work for me. Every other thought is gone.

Try it. Swing thoughts up to you!

jack

[bob_stra]

Bob,

Thanks for the insight. I did read the article that you recommended in your last post. It all makes sense.

When reading Body-Flow or any article, I believe in the 'eating' method. I take things in small chunks; they're easier to digest. However, I first look at the 'big' picture; then, I break it down. Like with Body-Flow, I read it through first for the basic ideas. Now, I am reading it again in chunks.

That's cool. I hope some of the links were useful to you. If not, (best japanese accent) "forgiveness, please."

Text....not always the best way of communicating nuances....and I'm not sure I 100% understood the nuances of what you were asking. I'm kinda "special" like that. ;-)

Also - meh, what do I know? Maybe you'll come up something entirely original that I can learn from you. Why the hell not?

It's all good ;-)

[Shaf]

This summer I spent some time doing S&C with some high school football players. To get them to properly deadlift to an effort of almost herculean proportions. On the old forum someone mentioned the total lack of prioreception most HS athletes have, and my personal experience backs that up.

The squat was almost as bad, until I remembered my friend Dan John's advice on it, and then it kind of "clicked." But the deadlift was awful. The would do it round backed with hips kind of forward. Eventually I just had the majority of them do trap bar deads.

However, Jack Reape is right. Grip it. Rip it. Once you have the neuromotor program in place, that all there it to it. Putting that program in place is what can be tricky.

Shaf