Peak Performance Pursuit and Addiction

[Scott Sonnon]

I was recently asked in light of my recent record, how I knew the difference between addiction and peak performance. The answer is not simple, because the question has a slippery slope conclusion where all peak athletic performances are considered the result of exercise addiction. That's obviously not the case.

So I'll throw the question to all of you. How would you tell the difference between an athlete and an addict?

[Connie Brown]

Good question. Especially in light of what we are learning about the beta-endorphin high. A good thing with healthy exercise and also what hooks people in addiction (the unhealthy end of the spectrum).

my random thoughts:

- if I were trying to tell if an athlete was an exercise addict, I would go through the universal addiction checklist (http://www.radiantrecovery.com/newsletter2/ameba.html) one-by-one. just for starters.

- exercise addiction once you're in it would have to be regular without adequate rest, by definition (increased tolerance),
where a peak performance is a one-shot with adequate prep before and adequate rest afterward.

- both athletes and exercise addicts push through injury. Perhaps the difference is "why" and after
that, what they do in the week afterward.

In my dream world the peak athletic performance is in
the service of a higher goal, where the exercise high is in service of, well, an exercise high.

And in the aftermath, a peak performance would stop to recover, but the addict would keep going (continued use despite adverse consequences).

This is a really slippery one because all exercise addicts start for lofty reasons - to be an athlete, or healthy, or in shape -- all higher goals for sure. It's only much later that you start to hear the symptoms of adverse consequences: "I feel so bad when I don't, constant injuries, family complaining, can't sleep"

- er, what about the case where the athlete knows going in, there will be injury? this seems less pure.
how could you tell if the event's purpose was legit or whether it was mainly for getting a beta-endorphin rush/hit.

Connie

[rbibbs]

Everyone at the BJJ studio seems to have given up trying to make the distinction, and put themselves (remorselessly) in the 'addict' camp. But we're jokingly justifying our sociological fringe status; a hundred people out of 3/4 million. Could have said "there's a waiting list for tee times."

Putting on my helmet of objectivity... would the line of 'addiction' be drawn where the addictive behavior causes significant negative results from which the addictee should be repelled but isn't? Or a doctor in his gravest tone, tells the addictee that he has to stop and the addictee says "I know" with no intention of altering his behavior? (Trying to define it in terms that would include addictions to things other than exercise.)

Logically, if a performance athlete is successful, s/he may have obsessed upon exercise... but had s/he been addicted to it, would have no cognizance of their location on the performance curve.

[Connie Brown]

Putting on my helmet of objectivity... would the line of 'addiction' be drawn where the addictive behavior causes significant negative results from which the addictee should be repelled but isn't?
...

Logically, if a performance athlete is successful, s/he may have obsessed upon exercise... but had s/he been addicted to it, would have no cognizance of their location on the performance curve.
I think the awareness of performance is key. They can see sets/reps/pounds/miles/minutes but not the whole package.

People in addiction can no longer hear the voice of reality - they cannot hear the doctor, or the spouse who says "you run out that door, don't bother coming back," or literally do not pay attention to constant and increasing injury. Because to listen would mean to stop but that is way too scary because if they stop they will feel soooo bad... low beta-endorphin.

I like to think of the success part as coming from "focus" and "fascination" rather than "obsession" which has that "can't stop" quality to it! eyew.

[Chuck Kechter]

A few shots in the dark. . .

How can you tell the difference?

Balance?

In lifestyle, behavior, relationships, et cetera. . .

Knowing what is TRUELY inportant in life.

Addicts may know it, but they don't live it. Athletes (at least the ones I know and associate with) do.
_____________

I would also add that while there is a bio-chemical component to addiction, there is also a pathological aspect as well, that is "beyond" bio-chemistry (as it were). While I think all of us know it, there seems to be little talk of it, at least at this moment, on the forum. (Not that I think the forum is the "right" place for inter-personal group therapy either :wink: ).

And the Universal Addiction Checklist, while a useful pocket checklist, can also be used to undermine any of a number of step recovery processes. Pigeon-holing is neither healthy, nor wise. What is addiction in one is the right road traveled in another. . .

Balance is key. Having fun is key. Honest Introspection is key. Honest communication (with self and others) is key. Seeking to BE better tomorrow than you are today is key (but in all things--not just athletic performance). Performance enhancement (as I've said a bazillion times before) isn't just for ahtletic endevors, it can be (and in my opinion should be) applied to all areas of one's life.

Bzzzz, Bzzzz, Bzzzz. . .

Yikes. . . Rant over (for now at least :? ),

V/R,

Chuck

[Chuck Kechter]

By the way, please keep in mind that you can't tell tone in a post like these. . .

In no way was what I wrote (though I stand by it) meant to sling mud at anyone, or any one's "belief" system.

Once again,

V/R,

Chuck

[CalypsoCat]

I think the difference between the two is an athlete has a purpose, a plan and a goal. They get the best plan of action to achieve there goal. They are not going to do anything to jeopardize reaching there goal. When you are dealing with the addiction side there you have the people who will jog in a lightning storm because they have to. They can't stop. They can't rest. Instead of enjoying the movement it gets to be something that has to be done and the intensity has to increase. Instead of increasing in the freedom of movement they are locked into a visegrip of obsession that is bit by bit destroying the very thing they are trying to acheive. The body can only take so much abuse before it will throw a monkey wretch into the works. :)

[somlor]

What a difficult topic. I think it's important to agree on terms before a discussion this complex.

Addiction
Some favor describing addiction in terms of habitual responses within the context of social relationships, while others tend to describes addiction in more purely biological terms.

How about: A pathological relationship to a mood altering event, experience or thing that has life damaging consequences.

I like this definintion because it doesn't definitively posit the source of addiction, it merely describes it's qualities.

Peak Performance
Not exactly sure what the definition is. Is it simply the combination of the words?
The highest point of development for an action executed.

Peak: The highest level or greatest degree
Performance: The execution of an action

Is addiction a "bad word"?
Is the fairly sweeping negative connotation for the concept of addiction justified? Can addiction be a good thing? Or are good "addictions" called something else? Can you be addicted to a "sense of well being and balance"? Can the meme of addiction be turned on its head? Are there "good addictions"? Maybe even addictions that paradoxically lead to freedom from addiction?

What about these scenarios:
Struggling kind of neurotically through a program despite pain, repeated injury, and discouragement from your friends and family because you have dedication and intention to become pain free and increase ROM.

Becoming OCD about your food plan/training regimen, despite lack of family/doctor approval because you know how important it is to your "sense of well being".

Are these addictive behaviors? They kind of fit the definition, don't they?

Love
What's the difference between love and addiction? Can love itself *be* an addiction? We've all heard anecdotes of spouses dying soon after their partner dies. This person was such an important part of their lives that when they died, their lives become meaningless. Are these cases the sad stories of poor souls who remained unconscious of their addictions? Were they in denial that their partner had become a drug they could not live without? Am I being too melodramatic? ;)

Are we all addicted to our homes? To a warm safe room with a bed? Does the fact that most of our moods would be *drastically* damaged if we were transplated to ghetto homelessness mean we are addicted to our property, our houses our cars our money and our cats? :) How vigilant must we be with addiction? And what price do we pay for this vigilance?

Peak Performance
If we apply the definitions of addiction and peak performance above, we get:
A pathological relationship to reaching and/or maintaining the highest level of development, that has life damaging consequences.

But in what context do we put "damaging consequences" because this is clearly relative, no? Scott's hands get torn up, martial artists get bruises, skaters crash and burn, IT people get carpal tunnel. Dedication to any pursuit often causes relationships to suffer. Life wounds us daily. Now we are learning that *anything* we do that excites us beyond a certain point, dooms us to a recovery crash four days later. Still we keep doing what we do. I find much room for meditation in all this.

What do you think the converse of this definition of addictive peak performance is?


Sorry if I've taken this too far off topic or gotten too analytical.

Sean.

[Chuck Kechter]

Excellent post Sean!

Though I "have" to disagree with one thing you wrote:

Now we are learning that *anything* we do that excites us beyond a certain point, dooms us to a recovery crash four days later.

Not everyone suffers from a BE crash, or low seratonin, et cetera. For example I have never suffered from such, regardless of length, type, duration, or peak of excitation (or stress).



I find much room for meditation in all this.

I also. Good stuff. . .

V/R,

Chuck

[Pattimeow]

In wanting to understand the difference between being an athlete and exercise addiction --
I went and looked up exercise addiction online and found this site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onelife/health/healthy_body/exercise.shtml

I want to quote some of it here and then make my own personal comments.


What Is Exercise Addiction?
It's what happens when you start exercising for excessively long periods of time to keep our weight or body shape under control.

My comment:

This was how it was for me when I was into exercise addiction. The *reason* I did it was because I was trying to keep my weight under control and get my body looking good. It was my primary focus. Maybe this isn’t so for the athlete. Maybe the athlete’s primary focus is to accomplish a goal (i.e. a marathon, etc.), and they are maybe not focused on weight or body image issues at all.




Signs of exercise addiction include:

· Feeling like exercise is a compulsion, rather than fun
· Feeling guilty, depressed or irritable when you don't exercise
· Feeling like your job, studies or relationships get in the way of exercise
· Missing school, college or work to exercise
· Exercising regardless of injuries, tiredness or illness
· Ignoring the concerns of your friends and family about your attitude to exercise

My comment:

Exercise was never fun for me, it was a chore, something I had to endure to keep the fat off my body. And yes I always felt guilty, tremendous guilt if I missed a day of working out and became very irritable. Lots of things would get in the way of my workout and I would resent them, whether it was an appointment or a person or whatever. I often worked out when ill, with a fever of 102-103 even. I worked out when my knees hurt so much I could barely stand it, or other physical pains. None of my friends and family ever was concerned about my exercise habits, they never commented, they only commented on all the sweets I ate, or they might comment on me being too thin or that I was gaining weight.

So, I don’t know how an athlete feels, since I am not one. Does their exercise routine feel fun, or does it also feel like a compulsion in order to meet the *need* to reach their goal? What if they are preparing for an event and something comes up and they have to miss a workout session, how do they feel? Depressed, irritable, guilty? I don’t know. I have seen many athletes perform their exercise selection when injured, tired, or ill, but does their mental state differ from that of an exercise addict, or not? I don’t know.




Why Does It Happen?
There are a lot of different reasons, but many experts put it down to:

· The media, who bombard us with unrealistic images of beefed up sports stars and stick-thin models and performers, making us feel a lot of pressure to look good.

· The feelings of elation we get due to the release of endorphins when we exercise.
· Its ability to help us escape from a lot problems and stresses in our lives.

My comment:

For me, when I was compulsively exercising, yes a big part of it was because I thought looking like the stick-thin models was what would make me lovable, and acceptable. And yes, I suppose the BE spike I would get was part of it too, although I did not know anything about it when I was doing this, it wasn’t until getting into recovery in the Radiant Recovery community that I learned about BE spiking. I do know that back then I was severely depressed and working out for hours seemed to help that. And for sure it released stress and was an escape from problems. I could workout for a few hours and feel so much better.

I don’t know if any of these things relate to an athlete or not, maybe they do. But then if they do then maybe that person is an athlete AND an addict.




Can It Be Controlled?
In extreme cases exercise addiction may require professional help, but it is possible to control and get over without this. Some important things to remember when exercising are:

· Concentrate on fitness rather than what you look like
· Get a proper exercise plan together
· Don't overdo it - listen to your body, if it's hurting or tired stop exercising
· Try more stretching work, like pilates, to wean yourself off high impact exercise
· Take rest days

My Comment:

Through working on my recovery in Radiant Recovery this addiction in me has gone silent. I don’t feel it is “controlled” I feel it is “healed” through healing my biochemistry. Does “healed” mean it is gone forever? Nope, I don’t think so. It, to me, means that *if* I continue to focus on my recovery and focus on fitness rather than what I look like or what I weigh, or how many calories I am burning or not burning, then it is dormant. When I was into exercise addiction taking a day of rest was unheard of, that to me was a wasted day. I know now that taking times to rest is very important for me.

I would think that most athlete’s focus on fitness rather than what they look like. But I have seen some athlete’s that are also focused on muscle mass etc., and that is related to appearance. I also think that many athletes overdo it; this is where some of my confusion lies. Why press through such pain? Why does the athlete often ignore their physical pain during an event? How is that listening to their body? And how does that differ from and exercise addict?




Exercise is a great way to get fit, improve your body image and increase your confidence, but when you start going to extremes it can do more harm than good.

My comment:

Extremes, hmmm….to be excessive or immoderate…I have seen both exercise addicts and athletes go to extremes. So, does this mean that if you are an athlete and you go to an extreme to reach a goal then that is a valid reason to do so? And if you are an exercise addict and you go to extremes to reach a goal then that is not a valid reason to do so? So maybe it isn’t the fact that the person “went to extremes”, but whether they are doing so from a balanced place, a place that allows them to rest, to eat right, and to focus on both inner and outer healing. I don’t know, I’m just talking out loud here.

So as you can see Coach Scott I am not clear on all the things relating to exercise addiction vs. being an athlete. And maybe I don’t need to be. Maybe it is a very fine line between the two, and if a person is “set up” for addiction then that person just needs to be aware as they enter into an exercise regimen to really listen to the “addictive cues” so that they don’t enter into that place of addictive compulsion.

Just my thoughts,
Patti.

[Scott Sonnon]

Patti,

This was an outstanding thesis, and I can see you've invested a great deal of thought in this. I also can hear how you're at a place in your life where you're ready to sever exercise addiction from your movement health.

This distinction will help a great deal: exercise/fitness vs. movement health. You are absolutely correct, and I've lived surrounded by them myself, there are many, many athletes who destroy themselves with exercise. Much of my activity at the CST Forum regards 'yoking' people back, and teaching them HOW to rest and recover. When you see an athlete going to extremes, if from a balanced place where they're honoring themselves, then s/he does so for the sake of the movement - the aliveness of being a physical being. Inuitively, you can look at two athletes, equally accomplished but one moves with grace and poise, the other with a sort of overpowering desperation. Hard to describe, but immediately distinguishable.

Just by your good work you're doing - obvious from this message - you're getting in touch with the Warrior within - the Warrior who is the parent to all athletes.


Does their exercise routine feel fun, or does it also feel like a compulsion in order to meet the *need* to reach their goal? What if they are preparing for an event and something comes up and they have to miss a workout session, how do they feel? Depressed, irritable, guilty? I don’t know. I have seen many athletes perform their exercise selection when injured, tired, or ill, but does their mental state differ from that of an exercise addict, or not? I don’t know.

Many people don't consider their training 'fun' but rather fulfilling. With most men and some women, it's 'fun' to push themselves. Goals can be a very real driving 'need' which is difficult to understand for most people. Some go to extremes in sacrificing themselves to this end. How much you can push her/his body depends upon how much of a balanced place they come from, and how much they honor the temple of their physical being. Some dishonor it obviously and come from very unbalanced places.

Through working on my recovery in RR this addiction in me has gone silent. I don’t feel it is “controlled” I feel it is “healed” through healing my biochemistry. Does “healed” mean it is gone forever? Nope, I don’t think so. It, to me, means that *if* I continue to focus on my recovery and focus on fitness rather than what I look like or what I weigh, or how many calories I am burning or not burning, then it is dormant. When I was into exercise addiction taking a day of rest was unheard of, that to me was a wasted day. I know now that taking times to rest is very important for me.

Rest and Recovery are THE key factors of success. One should enjoy rest and recovery as much as one enjoys practice and training. It's all part of the beautiful process of movement sophistication. Many people do not realize this. In CST, the cardinal rule is - you may elect extra rest, but you may not elect extra work.

However, we need to differentiate between EXERCISE and MOVEMENT. Your movement practice should be done daily, with the same learned discipline as meal structure. Exercise needs restraint - for instance for every three days of training, there should be at least three days of rest and recovery.


I would think that most athlete’s focus on fitness rather than what they look like. But I have seen some athlete’s that are also focused on muscle mass etc., and that is related to appearance. I also think that many athletes overdo it; this is where some of my confusion lies. Why press through such pain? Why does the athlete often ignore their physical pain during an event? How is that listening to their body? And how does that differ from and exercise addict?

Muscle mass is a factor in strength - the cross-section of a muscle roughly translates to the strength of the muscle. However, the state of the current 'bodybuilding' industry demonstrates to what lengths muscle mass can be perverted. Most competitive bodybuilding is as close to death as you can achieve and still be animate.

Why people push through discomfort is an individual thing. This relates to RPT, RPE and RPD tools. A successful person NEVER ignores pain, but rather assesses the RPE/RPD/RPT, and decides what is safe.

You do have the ability to decide what is safe, Patti. You need to work with the tools, refine them, and apply them. These self-diagnostics will be absolutely indispensible to you. You will keep safe if you develop them, apply them and get to know your body through them.


Extremes, hmmm….to be excessive or immoderate…I have seen both exercise addicts and athletes go to extremes. So, does this mean that if you are an athlete and you go to an extreme to reach a goal then that is a valid reason to do so? And if you are an exercise addict and you go to extremes to reach a goal then that is not a valid reason to do so? So maybe it isn’t the fact that the person “went to extremes”, but whether they are doing so from a balanced place, a place that allows them to rest, to eat right, and to focus on both inner and outer healing. I don’t know, I’m just talking out loud here.

It sounds like your intuition is VERY clear. I've highlighted your own answer to your original question.


So as you can see Scott I am not clear on all the things relating to exercise addiction vs. being an athlete. And maybe I don’t need to be. Maybe it is a very fine line between the two, and if a person is “set up” for addiction then that person just needs to be aware as they enter into an exercise regimen to really listen to the “addictive cues” so that they don’t enter into that place of addictive compulsion.

Again Patti, it's obvious your intuition is very clear on this matter!

[Connie Brown]

I would also add that while there is a bio-chemical component to addiction, there is also a pathological aspect as well, that is "beyond" bio-chemistry (as it were). While I think all of us know it, there seems to be little talk of it, at least at this moment, on the forum. (Not that I think the forum is the "right" place for inter-personal group therapy either :wink: ).
Chuck, you were so polite and circumspect that I hardly know what you are saying. (Sort of like those commercials where they say, *viagrex gives you your life back! ask your doctor if it's right for you!* and I think, what are they talking about...)

Is this the one about, *everyone has choices, we all know what to do - you just make up your mind* ??

If so, I have some thoughts...

There is certainly a complex feedback loop among nutrition, thoughts/feelings, and actions/choices.

The conventional model says:

...your mind ->
...affects your choices ->
...affect your food

but it is actually a recursive circle:

...your mind ->
...affects your choices ->
...affect your food ->
...affects your mind (repeat from the beginning)

In the case of food that disorders brain chemistry,
what you eat actually distorts your thinking and perception, thus affecting your choices. Specially the one about no impulse control combined with exaggerated blues or cravings. No impulse control actually diminishes your ability to choose. Your primitive brain goes for the drug fix before the higher brain kicks in - that space is what impulse control is.

So when people try to intervene in a negative loop just by changing the thinking part, without addressing the food, it is like sticking a fridge magnet to a tree.

This is the stuff that drives both sides crazy when trying to understand addiction. The addicts have been saying for 50+ years, either, "you don't understand" or "it honestly seemed like a good idea at the time." And the people who have not felt it, or do not acknowledge that the brain is actually changed by taking substances, keep saying, "why do you do that? just use your will/brain" (which is unbalanced at the time).

I see this all the time on the binge list at Radiant Recovery. People have spent literally years trying to make that leap from disordered thinking/choosing without addressing the food. Then they do the food and the whole thing falls in place. Even if there is still talk therapy to be done it goes about 1000 times more productively.

[Chuck Kechter]

Connie,

I agree with most of what you wrote (and I am polite :-). Always have been. I see no reason to use speech or manner to enflame anyone. Though I have no problem calling 'em as I see them--if you know what I mean :wink:. I've never liked that saying about using blunt speech to engage the strong, and intimidate the "weak." I find it ego-driven and boorish. I prefer concise speech, then everyone can be engaged and there is no ego pissing in the corners :wink: I say what I mean, and mean what I say--unless I'm joking of course. . .).

Anyway. . .



it is actually a recursive circle:

...your mind ->
...affects your choices ->
...affect your food ->
...affects your mind (repeat from the beginning)

This I believe.

Not this:



The conventional model says:

...your mind ->
...affects your choices ->
...affect your food

I have also heard quite often that "I" didn't "do it," whatever "it" was. It was the food, the drugs, the alcohol, et cetera that did "it". Not me! A total abdication of responsibility.

(By the way I am NOT talking about me here. . .LOL) .

That was one of the reasons I posted what I did above. I have found that some addicts never take responsibility for their actions, health, or well-being, unless called on their behavior. (Again, please note I am not talking about anyone on the forum--this is from my own personal experience).


So when people try to intervene in a negative loop just by changing the thinking part, without addressing the food, it is like sticking a fridge magnet to a tree.

I know this intimately, as my younger brother is an addict. Used to be food when he was a kid into early adulthood. He got "help," lost weight and as of right now is addicted to prescription pain killers. Classic transference.

I have been trying to get him into therapy, to change his dietary intake--ala Potatoes not Prozac, et cetera. He "knows" he has a problem but so far at least is resistant to any form of help. Meanwhile the things that make his life worthwhile are slipping away. Wife, daughter, jobs, financial security. . . ad nausea.

As an aside, and not to sound cold, or distanced from his dilemma, I find it interesting that he and I grew up in the same household, same parents, similar (though not the same) stressors, and he has an addictive "personality" and (so far as I have found at least) I do not.

Genes will out I guess. . .

Thanks for the discussion.

I will write more on all this On the Wellness forum in a few days.

V/R,

Chuck

[Connie Brown]

Ah yes Chuck we are on the same page. I am so sorry about your brother. It sounds like you were close before he went off to the land of don't-go-there.

did you ever hear the Big 3 of addiction? 1) to blame (not take responsibility), 2) be self-righteous, and 3) have an (unwarranted) sense of entitlement. VERY tiresome to be around and much worse when it is a loved one.

see ya around. I am with you that the way out is our choices.

[Scott Sonnon]

Connie,

I can see a LOT of Big 3 in sugar sensitive folks when imbalanced. Athletes can be the worst at this, because they use their 'work ethic' to justify 2 and 3.

[Chuck Kechter]

It sounds like you were close before he went off to the land of don't-go-there.


Actually we are still very close. I talk to him at least once a day, if not several times.

We have been there for each other our whole lives, sometimes when no one else was there for us, including our parents.

No matter what he has "done" with his life, he is still my brother, and I love him. Unconditionally.

I hate the behavior, not the person. . .

V/R,
Chuck

[myk hendrix]

Is it the case that we can only reach peak performance with correct nutrition, being chemically balanced ?

...or is peak performance in sugar sensitive athletes the result of seeking a BetaEndorphin rush through pushing hard in training and forcing the body to adapt, however unhealthy an approach it is ?

Mike Hendrikse

[Scott Sonnon]

Interesting question which would require scientific research to confirm. My response as a SS athlete would be that one cannot attain peak performance consistently and upon demand without balanced biochemistry.

[Randell Waddell]

"My response as a SS athlete would be that one cannot attain peak performance consistently and upon demand without balanced biochemistry."

I would suggest that this must be an all important consideration as we continually seek to develop and enjoy optimal agility in all facets of our lives .

Cheers
Randell