View Full Version : Knee Switch
08-22-2004, 10:44 AM
Having some trouble with finding the best structure for the flat foot squat. Could some one give some pointers. I experience a fair bit of pain in the hip area when I'm working on the knee switch. Especially in the flat foot squat.
Should I keep focusing on the Knee Switch until the tension goes away or should I just play with other biomech exercises and come back to it later?
08-22-2004, 05:48 PM
I'm not expert on this stuff but i have an idea of the questions the experts will ask in trying to give you advice
- decribe the pain ie localised or general , sharp or dull, in a particular muscle, etc the more detasil the better
- on a scale 1-10 how would rate the pain ? 0 = none 10 = worst pain ever
- do you get the pain the the starting postion ie the flat foot squat , during the middle of the exercise or at the final postion with your knee on the deck.
- are there any of the the other bodyflow exercises that cause u pain ?
- are there any warrior wellness exercises that cause you pain ?
- do you get pain in this area at any other time ?
By answering these questions and supplying as much detail as you can the experts will have a lot more success in pointing you inthe right direction
08-23-2004, 11:16 AM
Thanks for the advice Stuart...
The pain I want to resolve is a dull pain in the inner groin muscles near the hip joints when balancing in the flat foot squat. I'd rate it about a 7 out of ten in terms of pain. I should also say that I'm only 21 and have been quite a monkey my whole life(breakdancing, capoeira, snowboarding, trampoline etc...). :twisted:
I get pain in the same area when I play with the shinbox switch. The pain in the shinbox is much lower probably a 4 of 10. I can only get the one sit bone on the ground. The rest of the Flow drills are challenging (mechanicaly) but very little pain.
The W.Wellness Drills aren't causing me pain either (I started the beginner program-the hard range of motion for me is left to right with the crown always up)
As of now I'm just going to keep exploring this motion and try to relax even more. Any hints are greatly appreciated. :D
08-24-2004, 09:12 AM
I'm trying to remember which one the flat foot squat is - names change over the videos and besides which, I tend to rename them in my particular odd way.
Oh yeah - the "I'm a medieval peasant and I need to poop in the field" squat :lol:
(or at least I'm going with that one)
One thing to keep in mid is the more you wedge your femur (leg bones) into the hip sockets, the harder the muscles have to work to keep you there and move you *from* there.
For example - try doing a slow, slow spinal rock with the heels of your feet right up against your butt. You have to use a fair bit of force to overcome the "jammed" position and in doing so may under/overactivate the muscles of the low back. Take em a little further away and you'll notice that force transfers much better from the feet, up the femur and into the spine. You might need to fiddle about to find an optimal position.
Also if you're knees are very wide apart it also adds to this jamming effect. You can try it again as a part of the spinal rock. Knees and feet wider than your shoulder are. And the opposite - knee and feet narrower than your shoulders. Perhaps allowing the knees to roll in and touch (if possible. If not - meh).
So then- you might like to try a "narrow flat foot squat" Ie - keep your feet fairly close together, don't swing your rump fully between your legs and keep your knees close and upright. You should be able to hug your knee like this as your arms will be to the outside.
Does that flare things in the hip / groin area for you? What if you allow your knees to touch. (assuming this is possible for you. If not, never mind. If yes - does this relieve it a little? I dunno - try it) You might need to put your hands out for support.
I ask because in fairness, you might notice an urge to fall over from such a narrow base - ie: poor balance. If that does happen, see if you're trying to stop it from happening by using those groin muscles. Or perhaps your feet? If so - there's something interesting!!
Are you afraid to "fall" during a flat foot squat and are thus trying to muscularly hold the position, instead of swinging your rump down and thru, resting your weight? (Because if you don't swing you're rump down and thru, you end up jaming you femurs into your hip sockets, which the leads to .... all that crap I said before)
( I dunno. just an idea)
Position of the feet matters too - try squatting with feet pointing out, then one out and one in. If you pay attention, you'll notice those groin muscles work quite differently depending on how you place your feet. Doing the movement pigeon toed might illustrated this best.
For sh*ts and giggles, you might like to do this then try your flat foot squats. Should take about 45 minutes to an hour to slowly explore.
(and this one is great, but might be very difficult unless you prop your knees up on some cushions. Try it on a different day)
In any case - hip position is really quite subtle and my words might be too vague. They make sense to me, but.... ?
08-26-2004, 10:10 PM
A friend of mine has a similar problem, though I believe he's experiencing less pain than you are. He's having some success with a modification that moves him through that painful position rather than dwelling in it, and it is becoming much more comfortable for him than it used to be.
I call this the Knee Switch Squat:
1. Stand with your feet slightly wider than shoulder width, the same position they would be in for the Flat Foot Squat.
2. Start to lower yourself into the Flat Foot Squat; pay attention to your level of discomfort.
3. When the discomfort level reaches a 4 or 5, drop one knee across and down, ending in the first position of a Knee Switch.
4. Do a standard Knee Switch, ending in the same position on the other side.
5. Raise your knee up and rise to a standing position again.
6. Repeat at will, leading with the opposite knee.
This will allow you to practice the Knee Switch with less direct dependence on the Flat Foot Squat, but will gradually enable you to move deeply into the Flat Foot Squat with less discomfort. It also gives you a hell of a leg workout, with much greater movement sophistication than a standard squat.
08-28-2004, 02:44 AM
FWIW I just posted something I found to another thread in this forum. Might be useful to you as the action is similar to that of the shinbox switch.
"Exploring to freer hip movement (re: shinbox switch)"
09-15-2004, 07:12 PM
Thanks for all the help tribe. I've made quite good progress with the knee switch. :P
The trick for me seemed to be slowing it down and really "witnessing" the tension with my eyes closed. I will just go as fast as I can without setting of my stretch reflex. I find after a couple of super slow reps I can gradually speed it up.
I still have a lot of practice to do before I can knee switch at full speed without a warm up.
May the Flow be with you!
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