Is it possible to combine wingchun and muaythai?

I've been muaythai for quite a while now and I really enjoy it and have developed a lot of confidence in everyday life because of it.

A friend of mine teaches wingchun and offered to train me free for a while to see if I get into it.

I told him thanks and i'll think about it.

I would love to be able to be good at chi sao and fight using minimal strength in a compact combat situation.

I'm a skinny guy but I have allways had really fast hands and a wiry physique so it is suited to wingchun. However I don't want to give up on muaythai as that has enourmous combat benefits.

What would you guys do? do you think I could get away with doing both?

If not i'll definitely stick with muaythai.

Thanks

[Scott Sonnon]

Different forms of martial art are not 'ways of fighting' but rather educational vehicles for realizing Truth. Don't think in terms of combining 'those styles' - start thinking in terms of your own idiosyncratic development; of realizing your own truth.

Thanks coach, so I guess I should be thinking along the lines of can let this technique flow to this next one and what if this goes wrong, can I recover and flow into this one and so on.

Bassically arm yourself with a toolbox of physical weapons that can be used together.

Thanks, your answers allways make me think.

Had another thought, I think if I do decide to adopt these wingchun tchniques I should makesure I am taught them in such a way that I can be flexible. By that I mean not spending hours performing siu lim tao and learning to adopt these techniques only in the wingchun framework.

Probably a very informal instruction is what is needed.

Sorry another post, after re-reading your post it seems to me maybe you are pointing out the fact that we are all human, we have two legs and two arms and we just have to learn the best way our brains can individually control our limbs to their best effect.

Bassically, combat is subjective when it comes to style.

Cool, thanks!!

[Chuck Kechter]

Ed,

Coach Sonnon gave you what you are looking for, but (and I may be wrong) I think you missed it.


Different forms of martial art are not 'ways of fighting' but rather educational vehicles. . .

I cut this on purpose (sorry coach :?). I don't know if this helps you, but you "should" understand this idea.

You were closer with your last post than the pervious ones.

Since "we [all] have two legs and two arms and we just have to learn the best way our brains can individually control our limbs to their best effect." Then it makes some sense that different approaches to martial art are nothing but educational models, AND practice methods.

So ask yourself a series of questions. What will this martial art teach you about YOUR movement? How will this contribute to YOUR natural game? Why do you want to learn it?
Will you teach it? What are the practice methods and how do they fit into YOUR overall game, and personal preferences? What is YOUR primary learning model? Visual, kinesthetic, aural (et cetera), and how does the educational process, and practice methods mesh with YOUR learning process? Is the educational model of the martial art open ended, or quickly assimilated, and thus closed, and of "short" duration? Does the educational model, and its practice methods involve incremental progression to engender growth? Or is it a static environment that will limit YOUR growth potential ? Et cetera. . .

This should be your guideline:

Don't think in terms of combining 'those styles' - start thinking in terms of your own idiosyncratic development; of realizing your own truth.


Bassically, combat is subjective when it comes to style.

Coach has said it a million times: There are as many styles on the planet as there are people. . . EVERYONE has their own style.

EVERYONE WILL approach combat differently. They will have their own likes and dislikes as to what they "will" do, or won't do; they'll all have their own cultural conditioning, moral compass, ethical & religious backgrounds, et cetera (their own natural game).

Do you see?

Hopefully this helps.

V/R,

Chuck

Wow thanks for that.

I did kind of get what he was saying after I got off the computer.

Bearing in mind what you have written I should just go and watch a class first and see what I can do with it.

Thanks again, I hope I haven't just again demonstrated that I don't understand what Coach Sonnon originally said.

My doc said the meds interfere with abstract and lateral thinking, so maybe that's why i'm allways slow to get what you guys say.

Thanks!!

[Matt_OZ]

Obviously you've got some great answers here already, I just thought you may find some benefit to a few things I've experienced and observed in the last year or so regarding my exposure to Wing Chun.

Wing Chun seems to be taught very differently depending on where you go and who you learn from (even within the same school). Where I train in Adelaide (South Australia) we are very lucky in that we have different instructors who all have their own special take on things. Many people approach their arts in many different ways but a certain approach/point of view that may really fit well with you is as follows...


We have a bunch of us who focus on the more internal aspect of the art (strucutral alignment, relaxed movement, trying to use minimal muscular force etc) yet have also trained in other styles (Western Boxing, Muay Thai, Kyokushin, FMA, BJJ etc). These guys combine the movement, structure, relaxation and alignment they gain from the more internal side of Wing Chun with the experience they have from things like Western boxing, Muay Thai or FMA. This makes for a pretty efficient and effective package.

The internal side of Wing Chun teaches you how to move efficiently which makes your body and mind more efficient and effective regardless of what "technique/weapon" you end up using.

I'm very fortunate to be able to train in this group, the training is really more a session on learing how to move and align your body than it is a conventional martial arts lesson. It's really like a Pilates/Body Flow type of thing. We then apply these ideas to everything we do, throwing punch, fighting in a clinch or sitting at our desk at work. It's just good posture, intent (focus) and alignment.

None of us believe that Chi Sau is the "be all end all" tool/test for fighting ability (Randy Couture might not know how to Chi Sau but I think it's fair to that there are few people who are more effective fighters). We just see Chi Sau as a way of learning how to optimise our control of our body and practice the movement principles in a more dynamic environment (as opposed to the chaos of actual sparring where it's hard to work on moevment and structre etc). It's a little like the concept of Soft Work (from what I have read on the idea of Soft Work).

Wing Chun to us is tactile sensitivity, solid foundation/rooting in your stance, and minimal tension (not just for fighting but for everyday life). These attributes will enhance your overall efficiency and effectiveness of moevement for both life and fighting. To us Wing Chun is not a hand position, stance or guard.

It's certainly not good to try and pigeon whole people but the guys in the school who take this approach and couple it with some hard training experience tend to become some of the more effective and efficient fighters at the school.

The only problem with all of this is that many people see Wing Chun as nothing more than a particular way to hold your hands. This is unfortunate and makes it tough to get help with the movement/internal aspect of Wing Chun.

I'm certainly no expert in Wing Chun but at least this may give you some food for thought.

Best of luck with your training,
Matt

[HereBeADragon]

I think you could get away with training 2 different arts (train in 3 without much difficulty). How long have you been in Muay Thai by the way? If you have been in if for a good length of time than you should not have a problem training in 2 arts at once. Also try to not think of it as combining 2 styles or anything along those lines. Movement is movement and any valid concept or technique will repeat itself. I bet you will even find bits of wing chun that feel muay thai to you even though they are very different arts. Your martial skills will integrate by themselves over time so dont try and force them into one box. Also keep practice seperate. Dont do muay thai and Wing Chun in the same practice session. Keep these guidlines in mind and I think you could get a lot out of adding wing chun to your personal art.

[Yancy]

Bruce Lee added all kinds of stuff to his Wing Chun base and he did alright. I say go for it.

Yancy

Thanks for the replys.

I think I will start it.

I've been doing muaythai just under a year now.

I'll read over everyones posts again soon, right now i've just got back from the gym and im kinda tired.

Thanks again, ill get back to this tommorow.

Cheers!!

[StuMcD]

Hi Ed,

I'm late to this one but I have a slightly different POV to most here.

Muay Thai covers punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and upright grappling which is alot more tools and ranges than WC will cover. (or claims to cover)

WC is best at conversation range and when you can launch a surprise attack. MT covers all ranges except the floor.

The best thing to do is probably to go and check out this gym and spar with some of his guys. (With the instructor if he will let you). This will allow you to make up your own mind.

IMHO you will dominate against the vast majority of arts that do not have a sporting component with one that does.

With a Muay Thai background, I would be looking to add a grappling art to round out my clinch game and teach me some ground skills. Grappling is a great workout, is very technical and is lots of fun IMHO. Judo is a good art and is often very cheap to practice.
Cheers,
Stu.

Thanks very much for all the replys.

I just got back from the lesson which lasted about 1 1/2 hrs.

He asked me how I wanted to learn i.e as a complete art right from the beggining or bits and pieces. I chose to learn it as a begginer.

It was really cool, it is held in the basement of his shop and their was about seven other people there.

He teaches everyone individualy in different sections of the room.

First he taught me the stance and how to get into it and I practised that for about ten minutes. Then he told me to show him the stance and said "go a bit lower", which I did, and then he said "stay their for ten mins". Oh man, after doing ten sets of squats in the gym yesterday it was hell but I stuck with it and made a firm decision to do my best and got in a kind of meditative state of mind.

When he told me to relax he explained about the center line theory and showed me the straight punch which I practised for five mins at which point he took me to the wall bag and told me to practise on it for ten mins.
After five mins the skin had come off most of my knuckles but I carried on.

Then I practised air punches again this time full power.

After that we got in lines and did drills.

I spent most of that time in stance as he had told us not to do any of the movements thaw we hadn't been taught.

Then the end was upon us.

I really enjoyed it and I want toi carry on with it, if not for the productivity for the discipline and tribal spirit I sensed their.

While I was in stance for that long ten mins I was observing sifu doing chi sao with the senior student and he was the real thing, my muaythai could not beat him, the senior student was punching full speed and could not get through, it was quite amazing to see.

To me that is what flow is. Like in enter the dragon where bruce says when asked by the senior monk what the best technique is " I don't hit, it hits all by itself".

I'll keep you guys posted on how the lessons go, it was really fun.

Thanks.