Blockage in the Diaphragm

[Randall]

Hello,

I have been working on Warrior Wellness for a couple of weeks now and have been doing so in part because I have a few blockages I want to resolve.

One of the blockages I have is in the diaphragm, about where the solar plexus is. Now, I know that there are a lot of emotional issues related to this and I am working on that. I am really wondering about a more biomechanical explanation for one of the symptoms of this blockage. Ever been hit in the stomach so hard you get winded? Sorry forgot where I was… of course you have… Anyways, I have that feeling often, with doing nothing but a deep inhalation and with the lightest pressure, about 3-4 fingers below the sternum.
Here’s the real question: Does anyone know why I might be more sensitive there when I have an empty stomach? Especially trying to take a deep abdominal breath, causes a real blockage, and a feeling of “windedness” and pain. However, after eating a big meal, there seems to be more freedom in my capacity to expand my abdomen, with no pain??
I have few theories as to why; like it just seems like I can expand more because the food in my stomach has moved my diaphragm over etc... and of course that it's all emotional :wink:

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I am a practicing kinesi/myofacial/cranio-sacral therapist, so please don’t be shy to use anatomical terms.

Thank you,
Randall

[rbibbs]

I'd agree Randall, that it's neuro-emotional, because I'm just the opposite. "Do NOT hit me when i'm 'full'!" Any other time, I'm probably OK. How to resolve that... I'll have to leave space for others.

[Scott Sonnon]

Randall, perhaps in your case, due to your expertise, it may be better to look at the emotional causality of the issue, rather than to attempt to locate it 'geographically.' In other words, the core emotional issue may be system-wide.

When do you first remember experiencing this bound area? What traumatic event preceded it?

Issues with hunger, physical abuse, fear? Just an FYI, the issue isn't uncommon. I've worked with several wrestlers with similar issues who were physically and emotionally abused by coaches who facilitated/enabled eating disorders.

[Randell Waddell]

Just to throw another stick in the fire - how much Reverse breathing (&/or other types of qigong breathing ) do you do, and when do you find these "arising" during different activities / mindsets ?

Cheers
Randell. :D

[bob_stra]

> One of the blockages I have is in the diaphragm, about where the solar > plexus is.

When specifically do you notice this flaring up during your WW routine?

> I am really wondering about a more biomechanical explanation for one
> of the symptoms of this blockage.

Where to begin :-)

Chest collapsing? Not activating the shoulder girdle muscles? Overactivating the shoulder girdle? Contracting abs, thus pulling ribs down / rotating the pelvis under? Keeping all your weight too far back on your heels when walking? Some subconscious "ideal posture" ("military back") that just isn't working for you? Etc etc etc etc

> Ever been hit in the stomach so hard you get winded? Sorry forgot where I
> was… of course you have… Anyways, I have that feeling often, with doing
> nothing but a deep inhalation and with the lightest pressure, about 3-4 fingers
> below the sternum.

Inteeeeeersting....

Try this while sitting in a chair - scoot towards the front of it a bit.

What happens if you place your fingers on your spine at this level and breathe? Right on the spinous processes. Does this area move at all? Do you notice any holding anywhere else? Shoulder, chest, throat?

> Here’s the real question: Does anyone know why I might be more sensitive
> there when I have an empty stomach?

I have a half assed theory, yes ;-)

On an empty stomach, you can move more. Think about it - when you feel full, you can't really move a lot. That is to say, parts of your ab wall can't move very much. So it's the perfect comfort zone for the habitual 'ab contractor'.

On an empty stomach, there's not much holding you back - everything can move. So, to assume that feeling of fullness / "comfort zone" you might perhaps contract your abs somewhere. But if you do this and then try to move (deep abdominal breath) you end up fighting against yourself.

I do a similar thing wherein I try to expand my abs by contracting them. That feeling of tightness in my stomach feel familiar and "right" and feels like expansion to me. Kind of like a person who confuses their left from their right ("Turn right. No, the other right")

If then I try to fluidly roll onto my side, parts of my back overwork (esp lumbar area, which isn't where most rotation happens anyway). After a while I get pissed off and decide to push harder, which still doesn't work. So I push harder still, contracting my chest and abs even more. Within 10 seconds viola - punched in the gut / out of breath feeling. Work so hard I knock the wind out of myself.

That's one way I can induce that feeling your talking about - maybe something like that happens to you? If so, working on separating the abs from the back AND the abs from the chest (in movement) are where it's at.
"Reverse breathing" patterns are a good way to begin exploring this, esp as you play with them in diffcult movements.

> feeling of “windedness” and pain. However, after eating a big meal, there seems > to be more freedom in my capacity to expand my abdomen, with no pain??

Is it the same recruitment of the abs though? Or do you feel certain parts (eg: bellybutton) move quite differently on a full vs empty stomach?

Lie on your back and stick a folded towel under the sensitive level of your spine (3-4 fingers down from your sternum). Try taking a slow abdominal breath, not quite to your "breathlessness" limit, paying close attention to how the abs activate. Try folding the towel up even more so that the towel is thicker. Then take the towel out and repeat, noticing how the abs activate now.

> the food in my stomach has moved my diaphragm over etc... and of course that > it's all emotional :wink:

Emotional is just as real as physical sometimes. Funny story -

I use to work in a clinic where the preceding therapist would shift the furniture to their liking, aligning the table on a 45 degree angle to the door. I hated that - I like working on straight lines, table facing middle of the room.

So when I walked into the clinic, I'd start getting irritated and my shoulders would seize up. Breathing would be "chesty" - shallow, angry breaths. The space around the table was all wrong! I'd physically have to rearrange the room before I could start working and even then it would bug me. I had zero flow - no adaptation to the situation.

Makes me laugh now - a 45 degree angle to the door IS a straight line, albeit in a different orientation. But when your so wrapped up in your concepts of what's right, you can't see the forest for the trees.

[Randall]

Scott,


Randall, perhaps in your case, due to your expertise, it may be better to look at the emotional causality of the issue, rather than to attempt to locate it 'geographically.' In other words, the core emotional issue may be system-wide.

That's what I feel.


When do you first remember experiencing this bound area? What traumatic event preceded it?

I don’t have a good memory of my childhood. I do remember that I got winded a lot of times in Soccer. I feel as though it has always been there because I was always sensitive there... I think hmmm. Well, I really noticed that it wasn’t “normal” when I was doing a postural analysis class and we saw how my sternum hardly moved during inhalation. Then in comparing with other people the amount of pressure they could put in that area as apposed to me.


Issues with hunger, physical abuse, fear? Just an FYI, the issue isn't uncommon. I've worked with several wrestlers with similar issues who were physically and emotionally abused by coaches who facilitated/enabled eating disorders.

I think strongly that it’s a fear thing. I had the “perfect” parents. I think though that I was spoiled with attention (at least not toys thank god!) and I think I was over protected. My parents are also immensely intelligent people, so hard to live up to, or impress them. I have heard (and can understand why) that children who are invalidated constrict in the diaphragm. Remember I grew up playing the violin and hockey. Both can and were (from my memory) pretty serious. Maybe I have forgotten an event that traumatized me. I think it was just years, and years of living with my parents, being a sensitive person?? They never hurt me physically (well they did spank me as a child, I do remember hoping that they would spank me so hard that it would kill me – little exaggerated on my part I think). It's tought because they really are good people. Good loving parents, who did what they thought was right. I know I have a lot of rage towards them. One thing I realized that makes me very angry is that they never really supported me in things I wanted to do for me that I thought/knew were important ex: taiji, gongfu. They always knew what was right for me… :roll:

Randall

[Randall]

Hey Randell,


Just to throw another stick in the fire - how much Reverse breathing (&/or other types of qigong breathing ) do you do, and when do you find these "arising" during different activities / mindsets ?

Exercises like these are what have really helped me! Unfortunately I only learnt them 5 or 6 years after I had been doing ONLY dan tien breathing. I have since realized that I learnt how to breath the wrong way, too fast. There should have been more progression. I would say that if I am breathing into the middle dan tien or doing exercises like yoga’s wave breathing (Abdomen, sternum, ribs) the area is worked. It just feels so tight. The changes are very, very slow. I do remember it being worse about a year ago, and I have been working on it since. Slowly but surely.
I haven’t noticed any real time that it’s more active. Only really in the morning when my stomach is empty??

BTW I too enjoy the “Six Qi Method” as I learnt it. I also learnt it from Ken Cohen. I love to do it after Warrior Wellness. That way I feel I worked inside and out!

Randall

[Randall]

Bob,

I will take a better look and your message, and try the few things you suggested.

This experience on this forum if so awesome. This is the second time I look at someones message and then right after they send me a message. Coincidence? ...no such thing.
I was just reading your post about completing you PT. Congradulations! What are you learning? “Classic” Physio or some other type of Body work?

Randall

[bob_stra]

> I will take a better look and your message, and try the few things you
> suggested.

Let me know how they turn out, as they are an educated stab in the dark. Between us all I'm sure we can explore lots of different routes.

> I was just reading your post about completing you PT. Congradulations! > What are you learning? “Classic” Physio or some other type of Body

Just in the process of enrolling for my Physiotherapy degree after two years of chiropractic studies and god knows how long as an LMT. Hoping to work in neuro / motor control or pediatrics. Kids are more fun than adults and they lie less well :-) Plus IMHO it gives you more of a chance to "work with" rather than "work on" people.

[Randall]

Bob,


Chest collapsing? Not activating the shoulder girdle muscles? Overactivating the shoulder girdle? Contracting abs, thus pulling ribs down / rotating the pelvis under? Keeping all your weight too far back on your heels when walking? Some subconscious "ideal posture" ("military back") that just isn't working for you? Etc etc etc etc

Well… a few of those things. A lot of the contracting abs, thus pulling ribs down / rotating the pelvis under to have the “qigong” posture all the time. I realized that recently that I was shortening my abs trying to roll my retrovert my hips, instead of rolling back on my ischeal tuberosities therefore keeping my abs open and my spine long. I teach this stuff to people! I guess they’re not hurting because they do what I tell them, not what I do… :P


Try this while sitting in a chair - scoot towards the front of it a bit.

What happens if you place your fingers on your spine at this level and breathe? Right on the spinous processes. Does this area move at all? Do you notice any holding anywhere else? Shoulder, chest, throat?

Not much movement. There are a few flat zones in my spine. Also at the level of the shoulder blades. I feel a little pull in my R scalenes and SCM.


Emotional is just as real as physical sometimes. Funny story –

Ya, I have always believed this. I just wasn’t expecting it to happen to me. This is how I work with almost all my clients. A lot of the suggestions I have been given here on this forum are suggestions and comments I have given my clients?? Funny when the roles are reversed. I know this will make me a better person and therapist.


Lie on your back and stick a folded towel under the sensitive level of your spine (3-4 fingers down from your sternum). Try taking a slow abdominal breath, not quite to your "breathlessness" limit, paying close attention to how the abs activate. Try folding the towel up even more so that the towel is thicker. Then take the towel out and repeat, noticing how the abs activate now.

I don’t really notice ab activation, only to see that I think they are tight perhaps. Maybe it’s the psoas… ya I know, not everything’s the psoas, but when I did both towel thicknesses, there seemed to be a reduced capacity to breath. However when I brought my knees to my chest, I could breath easier, with more space felt in “the” area.


When specifically do you notice this flaring up during your WW routine?


I don’t. I did feel the 1st few times I did Warrior Wellness, that the chest anterior posterior ex. there was massive amounts of heat felt in my chest. It stopped after about having done Warrior Wellness 4 or 5 days. I just got up now and tried a few things. Not even bending backwards and inhaling gives me that sensation. Just standing, and breathing does??

Much thanks!
Randall

[bob_stra]

> Well… a few of those things. A lot of the contracting abs, thus pulling
> ribs down / rotating the pelvis under to have the “qigong” posture all the > time.

I've seen folks do that one a lot, so don't feel too bad about it. We all develop some bizarre ideas of "good posture". Couple this with the fact that most people have a poorly developed "senseorium" ... well, no wonder back pain is so prevalent.

> I realized that recently that I was shortening my abs trying to roll my retrovert > my hips, instead of rolling back on my ischeal tuberosities therefore keeping my > abs open and my spine long.

You're doing better than I have! I've been "expertly rolling back and fwd's" on my Ischial tuberosity for years, only to assume the point was a rigid flat back. Took me years to realize why moving like that still caused my back to hurt. Seems the 'real' direction for rolling over the sitbone isn't so much up and down (the ideal I was shooting for) as it is across and over, like sitting on a cylinder.

I also found that what I thought of as upright was actually hyperlordotic and that my feeling of slumped was actually perfectly aligned. Try rolling with a hyperlordotic back to see how much fun that is :-(

> Not much movement.

Interesting, huh? Given that there's a natural "spinal rhythm" that happens with free and easy breathing.

Have you done anything to mobilize the spine in that area? If you think about it, the spine connects to the ribs, which connect to the abs, much like a sail. Rigidity anywhere along that circuit *will* impact breathing.

I find that a 45 degree push diagonally up through the spinous process encourages breathing. IOW get someone to stand behind you, place their thumbs gently just under the spinous process (what... abt T7 or T8 for you?) with their fingers cradling your ribs. As you breath in very, very gently get them to push diagonally upwards towards the top of your sternum. Might need to play with the exact direction, plus pehaps try it in sitting if you get flareups in a standing position.

Good luck finding someone though :-/

> There are a few flat zones in my spine. Also at the level of the shoulder blades. > I feel a little pull in my R scalenes and SCM.

That's interesting too. One thing I've noticed is that once a muscle is in a pattern of contraction, it's very difficult for that muscle to do anything else. Literally locks things in place, so that when something else is required, one feels a clunking / pulling. It's a good clue.

If nothing else, this is drawing attention to a global pattern. SCM's fixed, (? head sticking a little forwards? Where's the chin point? What happens to the back of the neck?) pelvis rotated under....*checks*

Yeah - hurts to breath like that.

Have you head any troubles with the "neck pecking" exercise from WW? Do your scapulae move a little when you do this, or are they locked in place?

> Funny when the roles are reversed. I know this will make me a better person
> and therapist.

And humbling to boot. The universe still smacks me upside the head every now and again to let me know I ain't all that :)

> I don’t really notice ab activation, only to see that I think they are tight perhaps.

It seems something like that, something to do with how the mid back relates to the pelvis. I presume you've done the various psoas length tests on yourself? How are you at doing the pelvic stuff from WW?

I think this might be interesting to attempt. I'd be keen to hear your experience and observations, especially in relation to the rocking that happens later on. Remember, you're mining for clues and being attentive, not trying to stretch and contort. If it hurts, do less.

http://www.nas.com/~richf/low2.htm

(takes abt 45 mins)

Of course, all of this is merely information mining. There's nothing particular special abt the movement - really it's just a type of spinal rocking. Self awareness is what is important. What happens, when and why?

Also, as you know, emotional problems often manifest physically. Thankfully it seems to work in reverse too - you can do something physical to explore the emotional component. IOW - be mindful of the sensations, both physical and emotional as you do this. Therein lie vital clues for you.

> However when I brought my knees to my chest, I could breath easier, with
> more space felt in “the” area.

Excellent!! That's the beginnings of something. Now you have a working hypothesis you need to test it a little and see what other clues you can find.

Have you tried abdominal breathing in the "child's pose"? I found a quick link here -

http://yoga.org.nz/postures/childs_yoga_instruction.htm

though for my liking, I'd keep the arms bent and nearer your head, not straight. Given what you've said above abt SCM and scalens, I think the straight arms would restrict your breathing. (I'm guessing residual tension in the pecs and delts, ya see, as well as something not moving in your thoracic spine) But I could be wrong - try both and find out.

What might really be interesting is to try the childs pose + vaccum breathing on a Fitball / Swiss ball. Do you have access to one of those?

Just some ideas, not the word of God. Lord knows I ain't all that :)

In any case sorry - more questions that answers. That's usually the way with folks round here. 'We're all alone together' and all that ;-)

[Randall]

Bob,

I can't belive you're doing all this for me. This is extremely helpful. I think I've learnt more about my body in two weeks, that I have in the 9 years of MA, qigong, and massage.

In fact, I started doing Scott's stuff from hi fisticuffs tapes. I found it all do-able, and I was ok at it. I did indeed have more interesting feelings when doing the hip work. I do Warrior Wellness now, because I thought I should start from the beginning, to maybe find more clues. I have found that the hip work is the most difficult.

I had a thought. I think I responded to Scott's post talking about the fact that I remember being winded often in Soccer. Funny how when I'm in the position you take when you get winded, I can breath better... Also in my Cranio Sacral experience, I went into a somato emotional release and kept ending up in a (whole body) flexed position.

I think there's a lot going on inside me. It's definitively not just one incident. It's like they all feed off each other though. Makes it rather confusing some time. Do I blame my parents, or the soccer ball, or was it the hockey puck... :lol: Ultimately, it doesn't matter. It's all about locating and release the energy cyst(s) and moving on.

I will look at the sites and re read you last post and let you know.

Thank you so much!
Randall

[bob_stra]

> I can't believe you're doing all this
> for me. This is extremely helpful.

Yeah... I'm still naive enough to believe in that quote at the end of all my posts :lol:

I'm glad it's useful. Please let me know if I have been unclear at all. I don't want to monopolize this thread, so if you want to PM in private, that's cool too. I have a few more ideas, but I think I shall wait to hear of your discoveries.

> fact that I remember being winded often in Soccer. Funny how when I'm in > the position you take when you get winded, I can breath better...

Fascinating, isn't it! Makes you appreciate the human beings aren't just lumps of clay that respond uniformly. No one is an empty slate.

> Also in my Cranio Sacral experience, I went into a somato emotional
> release and kept ending up in a (whole body) flexed position.

Have you had much exposure to the Barnes method of MFR? I figure what with the length of schooling it takes to gain LMT status in Canada (? 3000hrs?) you probably know it very well.

I saw a lot of 'full body flexion' in folks getting MFR. Strange stuff, nothing I could really explain - no doubt some of attributable to Group Think (ie: we were told to expect big emotional releases) and some to idomotor movement.

In any case - there was lots of crying, shaking and screaming during those sessions, but it seemed cathartic.

> I will look at the sites and re read you last post and let you know.

Good show. I look forward to learning from you.

> Thank you so much!

Ain't no thang :-)

[Randell Waddell]

A lot of the contracting abs, thus pulling ribs down / rotating the pelvis under to have the “qigong” posture all the time.

If you have a look at almost all people doing Taiji, they too have followed one of the supposed maxims of Taiji "Tuck the sacrum under."by purposely contracting the abs to do so.

Using an alternate descriptor such as "elongate the distance between the floating ribs and the tops of the hips", is particularly helpful as it allows the sacrum to rotate around into place gently, leaving everything in place as desired, but incredibly "loose" / in "sung" and able to do what is required optimally.

The Tensegrity concept really comes to the fore if you analyse your people and your own structure, movement and importantly agility in light of this. ( You may find some particularly huge improvements in Push Hands and your ability to reroute another's push through your body into the ground, and to "bounce" them with minimal cognitive functioning.)

Many, many happy hours of exploration to you.

Cheers
Randell. :D

[Randall]

Randell,

So glad to hear other people talking about how to imagine the hips tucked in thing. I think that when I did that rolling back on my sits bones instead of tuck in my hips, I felt a huge openess in my abominal area as a result. You don't mind if I use "elongate the distance between the floating ribs and the tops of the hips" for my clients and students do you? That's great. I find myself adding this kind of language more and more with client/students, and it really works well. I remember when I started massage therapy. I said I wanted to learn it so I could teach people taiji and qigong in "white-man" or "Westener" speak instead of Chinese gotta know the history, culture and language to really understand what the heck I mean... :lol:
I haven't been to taiji lately... :cry: ... low funds, but I should be back soon and I will indeed see some new things in push hands. I have already seen some improvements in my form without having practiced it!?!

Big thank you again for your wisdom,
Randall

[JasonE]

If you have a look at almost all people doing Taiji, they too have followed one of the supposed maxims of Taiji "Tuck the sacrum under."by purposely contracting the abs to do so.

Interestingly, I have a friend that has his butt generally back (limited forward articulation of the hip) from many years of practicing certain stances in his TKD. Consequently, he has little "hip snap" for CB work, and difficulty squatting properly for many Bodyflow movements. It also impacts his ability to perform most high kicks or to strike with the power he should have.

I will have to explore some of the ideas this discussion is sparking, and I hope you continue exploring openly so the rest of us can keep learning!!

[Randall]

I will have to explore some of the ideas this discussion is sparking, and I hope you continue exploring openly so the rest of us can keep learning!!

I will! And thank you all for spending your time with me on this. I will continue to make comments in my journal, as well as in other topic, and if it helps us all, I will continue to inquire about the many discoveries I am making.

Randall[/quote]

[bob_stra]

Interestingly, I have a friend that has his butt generally back (limited forward articulation of the hip) from many years of practicing certain stances in his TKD.



You mean his butt sticks out?

Yeah - when the butt sticks out like that, it tends to cause the low back to arch. In doing so, the legs have a tendancy to rotate somewhat to keep the head
up-right and compensate for the lumbar spine. The end result is difficulty in moving the hip area.

You can try this yourself. Lie on your back, then roll your legs outward and inwards. You'll probably notice that your low back lifts off the floor a little in time with the rotation of the legs.

[Randall]

Bob,



...as it is across and over, like sitting on a cylinder.


That’s an awesome analogy. I just thought of it as I read that the first time, and bang, I sat just right!



Try rolling with a hyperlordotic back to see how much fun that is


Ouch! That hurt.


Have you done anything to mobilize the spine in that area? If you think about it, the spine connects to the ribs, which connect to the abs, much like a sail. Rigidity anywhere along that circuit *will* impact breathing.

The stuff from Scott’s fisticuffs, for the upper back (figure eights) was awesome for me. I can’t wait to build up to those in my Warrior Wellness™ training.



I find that a 45 degree push diagonally up through the spinous process encourages breathing. IOW get someone to stand behind you, place their thumbs gently just under the spinous process (what... abt T7 or T8 for you?) with their fingers cradling your ribs. As you breath in very, very gently get them to push diagonally upwards towards the top of your sternum. Might need to play with the exact direction, plus pehaps try it in sitting if you get flareups in a standing position.


I have a training partner and we tried it today. We will try again when we meet again at the end of this week. He said he felt movement, but perhaps we were doing it too hard. I had forgotten the “gently” part of the instructions. I’m lucky he is a good friend and caring person and has offered to incorporate some body work for me at the end of our session. Yippy! Massage for me. Well, actually we both massage each other as instructed in the Shock Ability tapes. You think it’s ok that I train that? I stop as soon as I feel any sensitivity in my plexus.



That's interesting too. One thing I've noticed is that once a muscle is in a pattern of contraction, it's very difficult for that muscle to do anything else. Literally locks things in place, so that when something else is required, one feels a clunking / pulling. It's a good clue.


One of the good therapist (massokinesitherapists) I saw recently, said in her words that I had very “rebellious” patterns. Ya. You should see the sheer in my neck to the right. I think I have a liiiitle bit of tension in the lateral neck muscles and fascia.


If nothing else, this is drawing attention to a global pattern. SCM's fixed, (? head sticking a little forwards? Where's the chin point? What happens to the back of the neck?) pelvis rotated under....*checks*

Not sure what you mean here. Yes I have (less now) forward head posture, chin pointing straight ahead, hips tucked under, yes it’s hard to breath. What do you mean by “*checks*”?



Have you head any troubles with the "neck pecking" exercise from Warrior Wellness™? Do your scapulae move a little when you do this, or are they locked in place?

It was a little difficult to do, but I with my FHP (fwd head pos) that parts easy and the back is so much like the qigong posture (head suspended from above) that that was ok too. The scaps don’t move much at all. They seem pretty locked… indeed.



It seems something like that, something to do with how the mid back relates to the pelvis. I presume you've done the various psoas length tests on yourself? How are you at doing the pelvic stuff from Warrior Wellness?


Psoas is pretty tight. Thomas test is positive for psoas and external hip rotators on Left side. The pelvic stuff is very liberating, hard, but liberating. I really couldn’t move my hips before. The lateral fascia and posterolateral fascia is really tight. I used to love to do the triangle pose in yoga. With the hip check movement, when over on the right, I felt an enormous amount of general tension in the hip causing big pull on the ham strings, all the way to around the patella. Felt great to just park it there, great stretch for my hams.



I think this might be interesting to attempt. I'd be keen to hear your experience and observations, especially in relation to the rocking that happens later on. Remember, you're mining for clues and being attentive, not trying to stretch and contort. If it hurts, do less.
http://www.nas.com/~richf/low2.htm
(takes abt 45 mins)

Over all there is lack of range in my left hip accompanied with some pain through movements of internal rotation, and pull and sharper pain in my right suboccipitals, and shoulder. Somebody say cross pattern tension?


Also, as you know, emotional problems often manifest physically. Thankfully it seems to work in reverse too - you can do something physical to explore the emotional component. IOW - be mindful of the sensations, both physical and emotional as you do this. Therein lie vital clues for you.


Thankfully. I don’t like the idea of reliving trauma to get over it. Seems like a waist of time. I’d rather be moving around than sitting on a couch talking. Hey, what am I doing here… well, off to do some Warrior Wellness… just kidding. Identifying the different emotions aren’t easy. I can feel a lot of desperation and anger, I think, but it will take time to clearly identify what I’m feeling. It will come with practice.


Have you tried abdominal breathing in the "child's pose"? I found a quick link here –


Done. Can breath well. I too feel more comfortable doing this with arms closer in to body. That was how I did it when I used to do more yoga.



What might really be interesting is to try the childs pose + vaccum breathing on a Fitball / Swiss ball. Do you have access to one of those?


Have a SwissBall, but don’t know what vacuum breathing is. Reverse breathing? Lying prone on the ball from pubic symphysis to sternal notch and breathing creates intense pain in my right shoulder (about where the supra spinatus muscle belly is, and perhaps superior angle of the scap) so much that I can’t stay there for longer than 2 min.

Randall

[Scotty D.]

Perhaps my more recent and dramatic event will be of benefit to understanding solar plexus/diaphragm tension. Everything I have seen on this thread relates to the problems that ensued from my Fear Reactivity catalyst.

Three years ago, and funny enough possibly to the day, I fell 40 ft. out of a tree. I landed on my back. Though the hospital only 'diagnosed' two hairline fractures in my sternum, a few months later I noticed my right 1st rib was popped out at the sternum, and several months after others noticed two receded vertebrae, T5 and T6 I do believe. And of course, there was a great deal of overall trauma in my whole upper torso and shoulders. Breathing was a painful thing for a week or so afterwords. And ya, I
realllly got the wind knocked out of me, though thankfully that was the only energy that left my body that day.

The vertebrae have reverted to what looks normal in the past 6 months, and the first rib is appearing mostly normal, though in positions opening my anterior thoracic there is often a 'pop' or two at the collarbone. Ever since though, I have been positioned with my solar plexus 'sitting out', and since beginning Be Breathed, Performance Breathing, and Frolov I have definitly felt a great deal of respiratory tension in the diaphragm. My experience is that when correctly aligning myself (which is exactly as has been described in extending and opening the lower back, creating more space between the ribs and hips), it then feels as though there is a huge rock that I am holding in the solar plexus, and this makes for a major workout in just breathing.

I have found some very beneficial practices though. One, actually, is just seeing the appearance of Coach Sonnon in the Clubbell DVD, where there is an underhang beneath the ribs before the abs begin to show. Dr.Doug Graham, who's nutritional advice I have followed in the past, has this appearance even more so distinguished, and I often noticed that my body was doing the exact opposite. So I shift my torso weight around while breathing until the feeling of the position matches the feeling of the visual image. And then comes the feeling of the 'rock' . At this point, it feels very good to press my palm down on the area and move the skin around. It is work, as in this proper alignment the solar plexus becomes very tense. Then I also will do standing spinal roles, standing on a bench and holding my kettlebell as I do them. I go very slowly and feel the weight in each part of my back as it rolls over the apex of the spinal curve, and focus on keeping the related anterior flexion well flexed.

I also notice that in bringing alignment to my solar plexus, there is a consequent opening of what I think is the brachial plexus, so there is definitly a fair bit of related tension here as well.

I often ask myself what the emotional resolution is to this trauma, though I have yet to make my answer result in a definitive 'cure'. There are two aspects that continually make their way to my thoughts though. One is akin to the notion of an "expand my abs by contracting them" action. On the inhale, I try to let go of body-weight in the heart cavity, and let it sink into the tonus of the solar plexus. This makes for a very heavy 'rock'. Then on the exhale I feel the drawing in of the solar plexus as a pushing out action of the energy taken from the body-weight of the heart cavity. I do need to be more consistent with the energtic awareness of this action though. I imagine the emotional aspect here is allowing for peace within ones heart, and to manifest the body's energy and intentions outside of oneself through the third chakra.

Another emotional element is that we are 'holding' the stomach, and I feel this may be more an issue of excessive dwelling on the nature of eating and diet, as opposed to the particular foods being eaten.

[Randall]

Wow!

Thank you Scott or (Scotty?). I think we do have something in common. I have not mentioned it, but when I move my first rib, I notice a lot of connection with all of my pains (all being related). Pushing in above the collar bone to reach it will cause such feelings. The attachment of my collar bone to my sternum cracks (or rather I crack it) every morning. However this is a fairly new thing.

I have been told by a couple of people that they keep thinking it's something to do with my heart chakra, or my heart (felt by a person who does EQH (External Qi Healing))

I will re-read your post more carefully and let you know a couple of things I find.

Randall

[Randall]

The vertebrae have reverted to what looks normal in the past 6 months, and the first rib is appearing mostly normal, though in positions opening my anterior thoracic there is often a 'pop' or two at the collarbone. Ever since though, I have been positioned with my solar plexus 'sitting out', and since beginning Be Breathed™, Performance Breathing™, and Frolov I have definitly felt a great deal of respiratory tension in the diaphragm. My experience is that when correctly aligning myself (which is exactly as has been described in extending and opening the lower back, creating more space between the ribs and hips), it then feels as though there is a huge rock that I am holding in the solar plexus, and this makes for a major workout in just breathing.

I am trying to decide which of the progams to purchase next. Would you say that the Be Breathed tapes helped you for the injury, or that doing them brought awareness to those areas? What positions can you be in that you don’t feel that rock? I should look it up, but tell me about Frolov.


I have found some very beneficial practices though. One, actually, is just seeing the appearance of Coach Sonnon in the Clubbell® DVD, where there is an underhang beneath the ribs before the abs begin to show. Dr.Doug Graham, who's nutritional advice I have followed in the past, has this appearance even more so distinguished, and I often noticed that my body was doing the exact opposite. So I shift my torso weight around while breathing until the feeling of the position matches the feeling of the visual image. And then comes the feeling of the 'rock' . At this point, it feels very good to press my palm down on the area and move the skin around. It is work, as in this proper alignment the solar plexus becomes very tense. Then I also will do standing spinal roles, standing on a bench and holding my kb as I do them. I go very slowly and feel the weight in each part of my back as it rolls over the apex of the spinal curve, and focus on keeping the related anterior flexion well flexed.

I don’t own the Clubbell DVD, so I’m not sure what you mean about the underhang. Again the next purchase on my list. Feel it has helped you as well?


I also notice that in bringing alignment to my solar plexus, there is a consequent opening of what I think is the brachial plexus, so there is definitely a fair bit of related tension here as well.
I don’t know if you mean you didn’t know where the brachial plexus is, or rather you think it’s in the BP as apposed to being above it or below, but it’s interesting what you say about your first rib and you clavicle, because they are right in there at the level or the BP. Any pressure on the clavicle or the anterior aspect of that area, can create some awareness of tension built up. Much as it is in my case. However, I mostly feel this area solicited, when I sidebend my neck away from the sidethat’s affected (in this case my right).


I often ask myself what the emotional resolution is to this trauma, though I have yet to make my answer result in a definitive 'cure'. There are two aspects that continually make their way to my thoughts though. One is akin to the notion of an "expand my abs by contracting them" action. On the inhale, I try to let go of body-weight in the heart cavity, and let it sink into the tonus of the solar plexus. This makes for a very heavy 'rock'. Then on the exhale I feel the drawing in of the solar plexus as a pushing out action of the energy taken from the body-weight of the heart cavity. I do need to be more consistent with the energtic awareness of this action though. I imagine the emotional aspect here is allowing for peace within ones heart, and to manifest the body's energy and intentions outside of oneself through the third chakra.

I had a thought. As you may know, in Chinese medicine I understood that the heart is sensitive to joy, and shock. An event that is shocking could be, falling out of a tree, or getting a soccer ball or hockey puck in the chest? Both events, without proper trauma management could have caused an energetic cyst or blockage, or “rock”…? In other words, if after you or I experienced the traumatic event, we were surrounded by too many people (no room to breath) or were not able to move around to discharge some of the energy, or didn’t have anybody there to be with us, or the hospital experience was constricting and restricting etc… this could have contained the event to the area.


Another emotional element is that we are 'holding' the stomach, and I feel this may be more an issue of excessive dwelling on the nature of eating and diet, as opposed to the particular foods being eaten.

I’ve thought of that and I agree. I was telling a client to eat more protein, suggesting she try peanut butter (she’s a vegetarian), and of course she said “…but peanut butter has a lot of fat right?” Needless to say, she’s trying to loose some weight.
I have tried to put myself in that position, and I can not say that I feel that way. I extremely rarely eat junk food and eat good whole foods, but eat when and what I want even if it’s a pizza or a hot dog. I also grew up that way. Eating good wholesome home cooked meals with lots of fruits and veggies. There was also always ice cream and cookies in the house, so it’s not like my poor friend and neighbor who’s parent’s wouldn’t even let them eat some of the Halloween candies they had collected. L The thing that comes to mind when I think of holding the stomach for me, is that I can always remember having good “abs” . I would let people hit me knowing it wouldn’t hurt. Kind of like Houdini… maybe that’s where I got the idea. Anyways, it almost like I made a point of holding or flexing my abs to show them off… I was, a teenager I was supposed to do silly things, right?

Randall

[Randall]

Jason had commented that he hoped I would continue exploring openly so we could all keep learning. I would like to do that, by include a few parts of PM’s that I exchanged with Bob. Some of the exchange I didn’t include only because it was either off topic, or related too specifically to me. These are comments I made in response to the Feldenkrais exercises I tried. I hope it helps.

Randall:
I recorded the lesson and then played it back to myself to do the
different exercises. Here's the first things I felt:

Bob:
The way I think of it is this. Information is knowledge. Knowledge is choice. Choice is freedom. And when you set yourself free, you can choose to do whatever you want. Sounds like so much hippie claptrap but IMHO fairly accurate.

Randall:
Really feel hyperlordisis. Can't get my tailbone to the floor. R
scap diff from L more pressure medial border.

Bob:
Interesting, no? Kinda hints at that "tucked under" pattern you mentioned before.

Randall (exercise description)
Feet standing. Hold your right thigh under the knee with both hands, with the knee toward your chest. Gently pull the knee toward your chest several times...let your pelvis tilt with the movement, feeling your lower back press toward the floor each time...then let that go and take the knee from side to side...let the pelvis roll...now make circles with the knee in space, and feel what your hips and back must do to allow the circles to become larger...let it all go and rest.

Randall:
Restriction pain in L pelvic articulation. Felt some kind of
musclular release, like a trigger point release.

Bob:
Yeah - the nervous system is pretty clever if you give it a chance. Illustrates a point - you can stretch and contort the tissue, or you can key into the nervous system.

Randall (exercise):
Repeat #9 on opposite diagonal. 11. Knees bent, feet standing. Interlace fingers behind head. Lift head a little off the floor, and hold; from that position, slowly rock your pelvis as in #1...rest.

Randall:
More able to push tail bone to the floor.

Bob:
Isn't that something... all this playing around with the abs and all of a sudden you can move your pelvis. Who'da thunk it ?
The more you learn about yourself this way, the more options you will have. So you can decide "yes, I'm going to move my pelvis by using my abs" or you can decide to do it some other way - whatever is appropriate for that circumstance. This is a big issue when it comes to doing Warrior Wellness™, fisticuffs any type of martial arts stuff etc. "If you don't know what you're doing, you can't do what you want."
In any case, please don't feel you've "not got it" or you've "missed something". If you do the lesson again at a later date, there's every chance you might notice something *completely* different. It's like learning a foreign language - happens in little bits, rather than one aha! moment.


Randall (exercise):
Interlace fingers behind head...lift knees over chest...bring head and both elbows toward both knees...repeat it several times..and, if you feel like playing a little, rock up and down on the rocker of your back, like a rolling seesaw movement...if it got big enough forward you would sit up, and if it got big enough backward you would do a backward roll, or go into the "plow" position with pelvis off the floor and legs extended over your head...but DON"T make it that big...just roll gently with those possibilities in mind, and make yourself soft and just let the floor give you a massage this way...then stretch out and rest on your back, and notice the changes that have occurred.Slowly sit up, come to standing, and walk around. Feel your balance. Notice any pleasant changes in your standing, walking, balance, relaxation, or breathing.

Randall:
Can't hold the position to long.

Bob:
Ahhh! So you're using your abs to do this. Fascinating. That's one way, but I think it's very tiring. The other way is to roll using the spine, relaxing your abs, and allow gravity to take you. Nevermind - I bet that sounds like so much gibberish to you right now.




These are some observations I have had in the last couple of days:

Low back took a bit of a hit from a little too much extension during back bending exercise. Weeble seemed to work it out after though. Went slowly trough the weeble. Still same feelings of the weight being on my R heel. Especially during the hip check. Weight might be partly on the heel of my right foot. Back of the knee at triceps surae proximal attachment (behind the knee) really sore?? I don’t know if it’s from doing the kicks in yesterdays Shock Ability or what... we didn’t hit each other there.

Standing was interesting. Did my breathing a la Performance Breathing™. IOW I concentrated on the exhale and not the inhale. It allowed me to breath into my solar plexus much more. I didn’t have as much if any qi sensation as with slower more abdominal respiration, but I felt better after the standing in terms of chest openness. I will find the balance between the two. Still felt stiffness during first massage that I gave today. Working on integrating my whole body more, and doing my work in different ways, using my body in different ways to move. Last two weren’t so bad. It makes me realize that my breathing is also related to my low back. When I massage and have bad posture during the work, not only do I become nervous about working well (therefore holding/tightness of breath) but my low back takes a beating and after I feel like I need to take deep breaths, and, crack my back with lumbar rotation.

Yesterday I had a really great experience. I could breath! I was driving in my car and I don’t know what I had done in the day, but my solar plexus felt open. Then I realized that I was breathing with my whole abdominal area, and not being so concerned about just with the lower abdomen, or my navel… my abdomen was expanding on the inhale, but I didn’t feel like I was chest breathing. It was very moving and I was really excited. Of course it had to happen when I was driving on the highway, so I had to contain my excitement in order to stay on the road. All this work of self observation during the movements in Warrior Wellness, the Feldenkrais, the meditation, paid off! Today I feel the same kind of movement. Now, it’s not 100% the way I would like it to be. I just think I took an other good baby step forward. :D :D Thank you everyone for your help! I can’t wait to see what happens next!

Breathing,
Randall

[Scott Sonnon]

Congratulations on your release. Glad everything helped you figure it out.

[Jarlo Ilano]

Wonderful! It's great that you found a way to free your movement.

And this discussion was enlightening. I'm sorry I could not participate, but you obviously had wonderful facilitators here.

[Randall]

Jarlo,

Thank you for the message. This is always funny. I had read a long time ago a thread you were part of on abdominal tension, and I was just re reading it a little, and then I get a message from you?! This is the third time this has happened to me. I think I'm here for a reason. :)

Thanks for contributing to this, as well as the all other post,
Randall

[bob_stra]

Wonderful! It's great that you found a way to free your movement.

And this discussion was enlightening. I'm sorry I could not participate, but you obviously had wonderful facilitators here.

Ditto. Well done Randall. You keep doing your own thing buddy and if we can lend a helping hand, you let everyone know. Lots of sharp guys and many more so that I. So take whatever I said with a pinch of salt and keep exploring / evolving / discussing / learning / helping others.

As for me, I really like to hear more of your thoughts on TCM and energy and how it relates to CST stuff. I know next to nothing abt the topic.

[Scott Sonnon]

[quote=jarlo]As for me, I really like to hear more of your thoughts on TCM and energy and how it relates to CST stuff. I know next to nothing abt the topic. I would be very interested as well, Randall.

[Randall]

I don't want to give the wrong impression, but I am really learning about the subject. Before I found out about RMAX, I had decided to get certification as a qigong instructor given by Kenneth S. Cohen. I have since expanded greatly my knowledge on qigong and TCM. I have really been fascinated to see how many parallels I have seen between TCM and qigong, and the latest modalities in cutting edge bodywork (Cranial, Myofascial, Visceral, Lymphatic). I have tried to integrate what I have learnt in TCM into my clinical work, and being able to continue to explore it, now here with the “tribe”, will be very motivating and educational for me.

I have had to rethink the way I will do BOTH a qigong certification, and a CST certification ;) I guess the qigong cert. will not come as soon as I had thought originally.

My thoughts on TCM are as such right now: In my opinion, we here in the “west” are rediscovering a lot of things that were part of everyday life, or of everyday training at some time in the past. We like to explain everything “scientifically”, but we are really getting to the same conclusions, as did, say the Shamans of Asia or the Aboriginals of Australia. This to say; what luck we have to rediscover these things! How fascinating to learn and understand in our own way how to get ourselves to optimal health. I’ve always thought that it takes a really deep understanding of Chinese culture, history and language to fully understand TCM and qigong. It’s up to us to fully understand holistic health care in our own way, to use some of what has been discovered in the past and learn from it, but to also discover it on our own.

So many discoveries to be made. What a great place to make them.

Randall

[Scotty D.]

[quote] I am trying to decide which of the progams to purchase next. Would you say that the Be Breathed™ tapes helped you for the injury, or that doing them brought awareness to those areas? What positions can you be in that you don’t feel that rock? I should look it up, but tell me about Frolov.
The Be Breathed program definitly helps target the issue; to get the spine rolling each vertebrae at a time, I really need to 'use' the muscles that are carrying tension, as opposed to passively carrying my tension within them.

I don't feel the rock most of the time, nor in most positions. I actually feel that maintaining the sensation of the blockage while tensing and stretching the bound muscles is the best progress that it can recieve. It is after I focus on maintaining the sensation of the blockage and breathing with it that I then start to release tension in the brachial plexus, scalpular muscles, armpits, and clavicle.

You can read about Frolov in the Joint and Respiratory Health section at http://rmax.tv .


I don’t own the Clubbell® DVD, so I’m not sure what you mean about the underhang. Again the next purchase on my list. Feel it has helped you as well?
Well, I saw both the Clubbell DVD and tried Clubbells at a friend's place, so though it was great material and I look forward to my future Clubbell adventures, I have little experience to give a solid comment on as of yet.


I don’t know if you mean you didn’t know where the brachial plexus is, or rather you think it’s in the BP as apposed to being above it or below, but it’s interesting what you say about your first rib and you clavicle, because they are right in there at the level or the BP. Any pressure on the clavicle or the anterior aspect of that area, can create some awareness of tension built up. Much as it is in my case. However, I mostly feel this area solicited, when I sidebend my neck away from the sidethat’s affected (in this case my right).
I just heard reference to the BP on this forum several days ago, so I am only mostly sure where it is. However, the past few days have really been an experience. On Sunday I went kayaking and really focused on using the BP and scalpular muscles, with as much mobility as possible, in the paddling action. Then yesterday I did Vibration Drills (or at least something similar), Spinal Rolls, Slithering Snake (*), and 5 Tibetans on rising. In the afternoon while walking with conscious breath (i.e., feeling 'the rock' while breathing), all those muscles in my upper back really began to 'let go'. This morning my whole chest cavity felt very light, spacious, and sensitive. I did ww, and now this afternoon I had massive release in the armpit where the chest joins the arm, and to some degree across the clavicle. So 'the rock' is still there when I let it be, however it seems to be a useful tool in release elsewhere in the body.

(*) Rolling the shoulders backwords one after the other, however, moving the whole upper torso as one unit within the movement. Then, let the hips follow with the same action. Concentrate on keeping the spine extended, so that it feels like the movement is happening around the spine, to the effect that what I think are the connective tissue attatched to the spine are getting laterally worked. The 'creating space between the top of the hips and the ribs' awareness is great for this exercise. Then, as you are slithering, you start squating, rising, squating, rising, with the hips moving more at the bottom, and the shoulders more so at the top.

[Randall]

This all sounds very positive Scott. I have found that concentrating on my breathing brought a lot of awareness to other parts of my body that were part of the puzzle. Especially muscles attaching to the ribs.

FYI the brachial plexus is really a network or nerves in that area about C4-7 and T1-2, so concentrating of using the muscles in that area are probably good for you. Brings some awareness of that area, and where the constrictions/restrictions are.

Thanks for the info on Frolov.

Glad to hear about your release. Some are big, some are small. I know that sometimes when I work with people in massage, some of the most profound releases, I don't even notice happen. They tell me after the massage is over.

Randall[/i]