Biomechanical exercise for endurance

[SteveB]

Who has a favorite BME or chain specifically for the development of endurance? I've had a good time with quad hops in combination with other drills, but...any other thoughts?

[Lee]

In my opinion BME chains would not be a good choice for developing endurance in the traditional sense, i.e. Lung capacity, increased heart rate, pain tolerance etc...

The purpose of BME and Kinetic Chains is to integrate breathing and movement, and make use of the body's natural structure to achieve these results. The feeling of doing KCs is quite different from say running a 5k, or doing a calistenetic routine.

When I do KCs, I really try to flow through all movements and make sure the movements are tied to my breathing. While this doesn't specifically work my endurance, learning to move in this way has GREATLY improved my endurance in grappling. I am much more able to reach a flow state, relax, and breathe which allows me to achieve true endurance.

Might not be the exact answer you were looking for, but I hope it helps...

[SCRAPPER]

There are plenty of bodyweight exercises on my website that will build your strength endurance.

www.trainforstrength.com

Let me know if you have any questions!

Train hard,

SCRAPPER

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

raising the dead this frequently might just qualify for "witch doctor"! whew!

anyway, not quite understanding lee's post. is this saying "kinetic chains do not build endurance. they better prepare the body for endurance exercise."?

just wondering. after watching videos (example: capoeira flow), it APPEARS that the athletes have really good endurance. made the assumption that movement flow created this. would it be fair to say that in addition to flows, the MUST be doing something else?

thanks

[wildman]

hello,
would it be fair to say that in addition to flows, the MUST be doing something else?

no. they do NOT have to be doing anything else. i am acquainted with several amazing capoeristas and circus performers, and both of these groups of people exhibit almost inhumane strength, endurance and flow. and many many of these people do NOT crosstrain outside of their sport for strength or endurance.

come to think of it, i don't actually know any capoeristas who train outside of their sport. i'm sure some people do, but i just don't happen to know any.

the circus performers that i know who crosstrain in the gym are substantially more injured than the people who practice pure circus.

[lorenzodamarith]

In my opinion BME chains would not be a good choice for developing endurance in the traditional sense...

The purpose of BME and Kinetic Chains is to integrate breathing and movement, and make use of the body's natural structure to achieve these results.

While this doesn't specifically work my endurance, learning to move in this way has GREATLY improved my endurance in grappling.

hello,

greetings mighty wildman! your answer is helpful. have seen some very strong examples of capoeiristas. quoted the parts of lee's post that were confusing.

could you possibly clarify what lee meant? perhaps the point simply evades this skull?

thanks

[shadow]

However if you read the blog of that fellow in the Capoeira flow... he did actually train outside of Capoeira to develop that exhibition.

Primarily, I believe, in gymnastics.

:)

However the point still stands, body-weight alone can be enough to develop... well the body!

[wildman]

In my opinion BME chains would not be a good choice for developing endurance in the traditional sense, i.e. Lung capacity, increased heart rate, pain tolerance etc...


i do not agree with this statement. endurance is specific to event. event is specific to structure, because each event uses 6DOF in different ratios and different energy systems.

running a 5k does not make you a good swimmer, nor does it make you a gymnast.
being a gymnast does not make you a swimmer, or a runner...etc..
i'm not sure i believe in the concept of "general" endurance outside of a 6DOF movement system.

BME can be tailored to your event to enhance whatever attribute you wish to develop. example. FF will give you plenty of endurance at 6DOF movment.




The purpose of BME and Kinetic Chains is to integrate breathing and movement, and make use of the body's natural structure to achieve these results. The feeling of doing KCs is quite different from say running a 5k, or doing a calistenetic routine.


yes, i agree with this statement. but i reiterate that endurance is specific to event.



When I do KCs, I really try to flow through all movements and make sure the movements are tied to my breathing. While this doesn't specifically work my endurance, .

i don't understand how you can seperate structure and breathing from endurance conceptually. "Endurance is the ability for humans and animals to exert themselves through aerobic or anaerobic exercise for relatively long periods of time. The definition of 'long' varies according to the type of exertion"(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance). ...

the union of structure and breathing is in itself endurance which creates efficiency.


I am much more able to reach a flow state, relax, and breathe which allows me to achieve true endurance.
.

"true endurance"; maybe this is just a question of how lee conceptualizes endurance. it is different from how i conceptualize endurance, but i see endurance as the union of structure and breathing used to create and maintain efficient movement. when either structure or breathing fail, then efficiency dis integrates, then endurance fails. but BME such as body flow and prasara yoga enhance ones ability (and attention) to maintaining both, thus increasing endurance.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

shadow, yes, read the blog (well, part of it). our flow-ish friend has an interesting life, neh? it would be nice to travel like that!

thanks


However if you read the blog of that fellow in the Capoeira flow... he did actually train outside of Capoeira to develop that exhibition.

Primarily, I believe, in gymnastics.

:)

However the point still stands, body-weight alone can be enough to develop... well the body!

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

agreed, wildman! it seems our respective "concepts" of endurance are approximately the same (you likely have more technical knowledge... cells and such!). always thought of endurance as the ability to endure.

in personal practice, just began intu-flow & flowfit 1 (sounding like a broken record here!) and endurance in EVERYTHING has improved. in fairness, health level was not particularly high, but the difference is just incredible.

running, eliptical, calisthenics, grappling drills, striking footwork/oscillations... all sorts of things. endurance has definitely improved. in fact, by some of the very criteria used by lee, endurance has improved.

heart rate (against similar workload), lung capacity (something called vo2max), pain tolerance.

not to mention basic attributes like speed, mobility, strength. all improved. stopped the weights. just doing cst stuff.

in the future it should be fairly easy to adjust bme/kc's to accomodate specific events.

once again wildman, your input is most helpful. didn't quite know the right questions to ask, and still your answers brought it all into focus.

thanks


"true endurance"; maybe this is just a question of how lee conceptualizes endurance. it is different from how i conceptualize endurance, but i see endurance as the union of structure and breathing used to create and maintain efficient movement. when either structure or breathing fail, then efficiency dis integrates, then endurance fails. but BME such as body flow and prasara yoga enhance ones ability (and attention) to maintaining both, thus increasing endurance.

[wildman]

Who has a favorite BME or chain specifically for the development of endurance? I've had a good time with quad hops in combination with other drills, but...any other thoughts?

getting back to the original post by steveb. yes, i do currently have some favorite BME. two. or more in fact. which i guess makes them a group of favorites. which may remove them from the definition of favorite. but anyway.

an old one than i learned from one of my capeoira junkie frineds.
negativa ole au, change directions, and go back the other way. repeat for 2 min without stopping. at one point i could do 5 min, but not anymore. its brutal.

the next. on rope.straddle climb to lobster drop, to hip key climb, to hip key knot drop prep for diaper roll. exit diaper roll into invert leg crochet hold. to double star prep hand crochet. to straddle hook same side. climb above top leg. crochet single bottom leg. to logo asana. the crochet back balance. convert to front balance........ repeat. if at all possible. currently i cannot repeat. but this is my new endurance kinetic chain for my next month of rope focus.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

wildman, a group of favorites can still constitute favorite...

if youtube has any video clips that demonstrate these rope movements, is it ok to put them here?

not familiar with the names, so unable to visualize. thought maybe others might find clips useful.

thanks

[sebastian andrew]

Gentlemen:

This discussion has been most helpful.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

sebastian andrew, glad to assist! are you interested in "kinetic chain" type workouts? if so, what sort of goals are you pursuing?

just curious.

thanks.

[wildman]

hello,
if youtube has any video clips that demonstrate these rope movements, is it ok to put them here?s

sure, but i'm pretty sure that you won't find any of them. and i'm still deliberating on a good video camera, so i can't take video yet and post. but soon...

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

greetings, mighty wildman! you certainly give us all something to look forward too! any idea when you might be able to get something up here? just curious.

thanks

[Joseph David]

sure, but i'm pretty sure that you won't find any of them. and i'm still deliberating on a good video camera, so i can't take video yet and post. but soon...

If you go to best buys the staff can tell you what camera's have the most returns. I ended up with a Cannon and have been happy with it.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

hey, joseph david! hahahaha! about a year ago, bought a small camera at best buy. it worked fairly well. used it once, to interview a fighter (mma). it got stolen right after!

agreed, a pointless anecdote, but your mention of best buy brought it to mind!

is that you climbing in that picture? if so, whatever you are climbing on looks almost like an inverted coral structure. looks like fun.

thanks

[Joseph David]

Lorenzo,
yes that's me climbing at a local limestone crag :)

[sebastian andrew]

hello,

sebastian andrew, glad to assist! are you interested in "kinetic chain" type workouts? if so, what sort of goals are you pursuing?

just curious.

thanks.

Greetings Lorenzo. Right now its FF for me. I can't say that I'm very creative personally. Being 50 movement is my goal-to recapture as well as to enhance. A question I asked myself not long ago: Why wd. I go do barbell squats if I have trouble doing a BW flat-footed squat correctly and efficiently. There is certainly something to "sophisticating" movement. Anyway, once I answered that question and gave it wider application it was clear to me that strength through a full ROM is what I needed most. The CB purchase was next. I already had WW and IF and used them daily. Next on the horizon will probably be Ageless Mobility. SO yes, the kinetic chain type are what I am after mostly. All the best in your training and other pursuits.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

sebastian andrew sounds like a good plan. certainly a good goal. had a similar epiphany... was spinning the wheels in the gym lifting weights and getting absolutely nowhere. then found cst.

been doing intu-flow and flowfit 1 for a few weeks now. on payday, will purchase free to move to get some more background information on rom exercises. clubbells are also in the near future.

take care. have fun moving!

thanks