How bad is marijuana?

[Jesse]

A little before bed each night helps me sleep at least five hours - three to four is the norm. It's my glass of wine after a hard day i suppose, and only about twice a month do I break my "not until i'm ready to go to sleep" rule. I do admit to needing a glass of wine if i don't have any wacky taffee... but rarely do I drink more than a glass - I do drink it quickly though...
My obvious addiction aside; is my health at great risk from this level of consumption?

My diet is not that different from the one Coach Sonnen listed on his training log. I am aware of my body and how it reacts to the foods I eat... i try to stick to meat, vegetables, and fruit, and try to take in a protien snack once a day along with a multi-vitamin. I had a clean bill of health about 3 years ago which included blood work and a finger up my ego - I am 28 years old and have had this addiction ON for 4 years ON/OFF for another 3 before that. Giving up the Green would - in my mind- require a zen like enlightenment of an experience that would have me seing myself stripping years off of my life because of the sweet burning bush.

BTW - I have a 215 card, so I don't have to hang out at Denny's.

[Randell Waddell]

As a teacher of young adults, I have seen the "wacky tobaccy" do great harm to kids' (particularly young men) start off in life - I encourage people to strive to get their kicks from exercise (eg the Grat. Flow stuff is an extension to this ), and positive group dynamics - the grog can cause enough problems without other drugs.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers
Randell. :D

[Jesse]

Hard exercise energizes me to the point where my sleep habits suffer unless I consume...

Overtraining just a little helps put me to rest a bit more... the competition like high of sparring with new/skilled people use to put me out when I traveled a bit more and was addicted to jiu-jitsu; I was less stressed, but I also had fewer obligations.

I don't get stressed out when I can't sleep, I just get addicted to work, reading, life, or staying awake thinking about all three.

[bob_stra]

Jesse

I don't know anything about this - I've never even had a puff of the stuff. (Chicken$hit). It's actually quite amusing, as one of my friend in highschool had an acre block of the stuff. (we're both farmboys, so it was not trouble to find a spare plot of land)

However, I know a place you can go to begin to inform yourself, without too much anti or pro bias.

http://www.erowid.org/

Hope it helps and be careful - in some 'at risk' individuals, Mary Jane has been know to bring abt the first schizophrenic 'break'

[Jesse]

Thanks.

As a kid I was around the weed all the time and wasnt even curious about the stuff... I think tobacco smells nasty and that kinda kept me from smoking in general. I had one pot - head friend who has been pounced by weed and drugs in general in a way that would posterboy anyone out of trying them.

[Jay76]

Its addicting as well. My sisters husband loves to steal the rent money to buy some weed. His kids don't have to eat, right :shock: :shock:

[radiantkd]

A little before bed each night helps me sleep at least five hours - three to four is the norm. I am 28 years old and have had this addiction ON for 4 years ON/OFF for another 3 before that. Giving up the Green would - in my mind- require a zen like enlightenment of an experience that would have me seing myself stripping years off of my life because of the sweet burning bush.
.

Ah, you don't need to wait for *enlightenment* to consider giving it up...
Let me share a little about what it does in there...it actually strips the myelin sheath off the nerve conduction cell. Think of an electrical wire having its plastic coating dissolve...the circuits can short.

And when you are in it you won't see it...it also creates amotivation. Kinda like getting a move on life becomes less and less important.

If you would beinterested in knowing more, or would like to even consider non drug alternatives to quieting your brain to sleep, I am at your service <smile>

kathleen

[Jesse]

"And when you are in it you won't see it...it also creates amotivation. Kinda like getting a move on life becomes less and less important."


Amotivation is what puts me to sleep.


"If you would beinterested in knowing more, or would like to even consider non drug alternatives to quieting your brain to sleep, I am at your service <smile>"

Yes... Please.

After Thanksgiving I will have enough time to write my eating, training, and "supplement" routine in the daily log forum and will be open to giving any suggestions a try. I also just cracked open the Potatoes Not Prozac book on tape and will give that a listen this week.

thanks.

[Arluk]

Marijuana is a very strange substance, my experiences with it have ranged from extreme habbitual addiction to spiritual sacrament. My perception of it now is that, it can (as in it's possible) be used non-habitually to enhance ones life, but!!! being able to use it in that fashion is very difficult, especially for those of us who have been or are currently addicted to daily use. I think that one of the problems with most anti-drug messages is that not recognizing non-addictive (not physically addictive) substances can be involved in psychological addictions that are just as powerfull and negative as other substances, leads people to think they are potentially less harmful. Check out this thread Peak Performance Persuit and Addiction, says pretty much everything about addiction in general that I would say. My personal problem with smoking a little pot is that it tends to give me capabilities that I otherwise have to work up to being able to do so easily (it puts me into a flow), and I get addicted to the ease with which I can access heightened states of mental and physical capacities. Marijuana is also known to ease the weight of emotions on the psyche, leading to not dealing with them as they come up, this is no good and can, like it has in my life, create problems.

When it comes down to it
My obvious addiction aside; is my health at great risk from this level of consumption? is a difficult question for anyone to answer because the known side effects of habitual marijuana use are so nebulous from deep depression, cancer, anxiety and nerve degredation to euphoria, hallucinations and ease of mind. The quantity you use may or may not be enough to cause you long term problems, but on the other hand its a possibility. I hope that my past usage hasn't doomed me to some big problems down the road, but the fear of that and the imediate difficulties I've experienced caused me to quite.

[Scotty D.]

As with most recreational drugs, the active component of marijuana (THC) is an alkaloid. When marijuana is used as a 'relief' substance, it is most often the case that it is balancing an acidic bio-chemistry. Advice: greens, greens, greens! Try to incorporate more alkalizing foods (and what those are is debatable, though greens are undisputed) and be aware of how much acidic food you eat. I would recommend the book 'Eco-Eating' by Sapote Brook, who introduces the CapNak chart for discovering Acid/Alkaline and Yin/Yang balances within food (Phosphorus/Calcium and Sodium/Potassium respectively).

Smoking anything is going to have negative impacts upon the body. Raw THC, however, is a very strong anti-oxidant. As well, hemp leaf is one of the highest sources of silica, a mineral that is very deficient in the Western food supply. Though I haven't had the opportunity to try raw THC, perhaps it is an option for you. The immediate effects will be quite diminished, though it should help in creating an alkaline bio-chemistry.

[JasonE]

I've had the mixed fortune of being acquainted or friends with a number of people that became addicted to pot.

All of them gradually became less able to cope with the demands of high-stress situations without the "medicinal" use of it. Their ability to deal effectively with any form of conflict diminished noticeably over time. Their perceptions of "stress" changed too, so that what they used to consider "minimal" became "really bad" when they weren't under the stress-relieving influence of the bud.

One guy, Bill, was a straight-A student through college and a virtuoso guitarist. As he became gradually more addicted to marijuana, he became known as a "burner", then a "burn-out"... his amazing intellect seemed to disappear, though his musical gift remained largely intact. Though Bill can play like a MOFO, it's damn hard to have a decent conversation with him... he repeats sentences frequently, loses his train of thought, and is often pre-occupied with NOT appearing to be an idiot. :roll: He remembers being brilliant and swears that he's clean now... but no one believes him. If he's not playing a guitar, he has no credibility with anyone.

Others have been more fortunate and avoided the type of heavy use Bill indulged in. However, I've spent too much time socializing with people under the influence to be convinced that it's a benevolent herb for anyone but those too far gone to have anything left to lose.

In your case, marijuana has become a crutch. You acknowledge that you are easily addicted to all kinds of highs, and this is just the latest one.

You don't need marijuana, you need to overcome the source of your addictive tendencies. Do that, and you won't care if it's available or not.

[Dan Chomycia]

Great post Jason!

Jesse,

You have already had a long relationship with the drug, and the fact that you have to ask means something substantial. Everyone that I have seen who has had a relationship with the drug, has not even been aware of the effect it had on them. But looking from the outside in I could see it slowly accumulating momentum in it's control of there lives. Drugs I feel should only be used in the most extreme cases to save someone’s life.

[Coach Wilson]

From a different point of view, I have to say that I have seen so, so many deaths because of this drug. Mainly, fellow officers who were killed senselessly in the line of duty apprehending the criminals that sell it. they were in my opinion, casualties of the drug, and proof of the overall affect. Please don’t misunderstand, it is your body, but if you engage in illegal activity, you are putting yourself and those around you in grave danger. It is not a nutritional question or a philosophical question, it is a legal question

[Jesse]

I am within the law at present, so its not a legal question at the moment... a fine perhaps if the officer desires, but I have never had the intention of selling and have no problem purchasing my brain candy from a government sanctioned dispensary.

I have a great deal of respect for law enforcement officers; up until two years ago my closest training partners were LAPD officers working some nightmare spots and dealing with the worst of it all. .. each understood (the way I see it that is) the difference between those whose harm to themselves ends up harming others and people like me who are cleaning their slates - if you will - so that they can live what would "otherwise" be functional lives. You know what??

I just came from dinner at a Hotel where a bunch of international roller figure skaters were in town for the world championships. At each countries table there was a bottle of wine open and people calmly taking the vine with their meals like all of my aged Euro-relatives have been doing for decades. My aged euro-relatives have also been smoking like chimneys... the point is this: laws are just that, and some make more sense to us than others; I guess whether a law is good or bad depends on whose senses we're dealing with.

Whether an activity is healthy or unhealthy is a little more objective in my opinion :roll:

[JasonE]

Whether an activity is healthy or unhealthy is a little more objective in my opinion

I believe you meant to say that you believe the "healthy or unhealthy" judgement is "subjective" in nature. An objective opinion would look at the facts of what that activity actually does to the organism:

If a substance is known to cause damage to your nervous system...


it actually strips the myelin sheath off the nerve conduction cell. Think of an electrical wire having its plastic coating dissolve...the circuits can short.

... it's pretty obviously NOT a healthy activity.

Again, it's a crutch, not a cure. Look at your own comments:


A little before bed each night helps me sleep at least five hours - three to four is the norm.

Why do you sleep so poorly without it? What events/conditions/environmental factors are causing this problem? What else have you tried to get more sleep? Have you seen a doctor about this? How do you feel in the morning if you go to sleep without marijuana vs how you feel with it? Can you get a decent night's sleep without it?


It's my glass of wine after a hard day i suppose, and only about twice a month do I break my "not until i'm ready to go to sleep" rule. I do admit to needing a glass of wine if i don't have any wacky taffee... but rarely do I drink more than a glass - I do drink it quickly though...

Do you get the same effect from slamming a glass of wine compared to having your pot? Why do you feel that wine works as a substitute? Do you ever go without wine or marijuana... you know, DRY? If you don't, or rarely do, why? What do you think is different that causes you to need this when most people do not?


My obvious addiction aside; is my health at great risk from this level of consumption?

Your "obvious addiction" is a sign of great risk in itself. Don't put it aside like being addicted is nothing. Being addicted is the enemy... it places you at the mercy of a dried weed... or the fluids obtained by bacterial digestion of fruits. At the urging of your addiction to these base substances, you are risking your nervous system, long-term health, possibly your financial stability, relationships, reputation, and your status under the law.

Doesn't it sound like more than your health is at great risk? What more do you need to know?


My diet is not that different from the one Coach Sonnon listed on his training log. I am aware of my body and how it reacts to the foods I eat... i try to stick to meat, vegetables, and fruit, and try to take in a protien snack once a day along with a multi-vitamin.

You are health-conscious... that's obviously why you are here! If you are so aware of your body's reaction to the foods you eat, how is it you don't know whether your addiction is a problem? Again, why do you think you need the marijuana or the slug of wine before bed? What is different about you? What have you tried to eliminate these habits?


I had a clean bill of health about 3 years ago which included blood work and a finger up my ego - I am 28 years old and have had this addiction ON for 4 years ON/OFF for another 3 before that.

If you truly have a good diet, your body can tolerate more abuse... but general physical exams are notoriously prone for missing many many developing problems. Gradual degeneration of neurological function is not likely to be detected without a thorough targeted examination and testing over a period of time. You are also young, which usually means your system can tolerate more abuse due to faster recovery and toxin elimination. It's likely that a general exam would look pretty good tomorrow, too. However, one or two exams proclaiming that you haven't got one of the big, obvious life-threatening conditions they are normally looking for doesn't mean that damage isn't being done. The affects of drug consumption, like a lousy diet, are cumulative in nature.

If you are so healthy, why do you have an addiction? An addiction is a major sign of problems in one's neurochemistry... an imbalance in the brain's natural functions. Did your doctor look for that at the time? Did they question you about your sleeping patterns and pre-sleeping habits? Did you ask them questions about your addiction and the implications?


Giving up the Green would - in my mind- require a zen like enlightenment of an experience that would have me seing myself stripping years off of my life because of the sweet burning bush.

You won't find that enlightenment with the Buddha you're doing now. All you'll find is a slow boat to idiocy on a river called "Denial".


BTW - I have a 215 card, so I don't have to hang out at Denny's.

The fact that you thought of this... :roll:

I'll support any attempts you make at probing the source of your addictions and resolving them.

I believe you can overcome this need for chemical substances and live well without them. I believe you are aware that there is a great deal of risk and would like to be able to function as well without them as you do with them.

While I may come off harshly above, it's based on hard experience over years of association with people in exactly your shoes. Some overcame it and are now amazed that they allowed such an addiction to go on for so long, and others... are just sad, like Bill. The latter are mostly those who learned of the risks, recognized they had a problem, and then decided to find ways to rationalize the addiction rather than address it head-on.

What do you want to be?

Addicted... or free?

[Jesse]

"An objective opinion would look at the facts of what that activity actually does to the organism"

That is what I mean by health.

"it actually strips the myelin sheath off the nerve conduction cell. Think of an electrical wire having its plastic coating dissolve...the circuits can short."

Of course that sounds unhealthy, but wouldnt the science behind what happens to ones body when one plunges into a tub of ice water or the science behind how my body deals with a the alcahol in a glass of wine sound just as bad?

Don't get me wrong, i don't deny the nagative impact involved with my habit, it's just that the natural alternatives (diet, exercise..) didnt help my situation... which is why my original question was focused more on the negative physical impact.

[radiantkd]

Hey Jesse,

The definition of addictoin is contiued use despite negative consequence. We know somethign is not good for us and we continue to do it. This means that the legal stuff has no meaning for addiction. It is why people keep getting arrested for drunk driving - they have a problem (make that an addiction to alcohol). They don;t flaunt the law, the simply need to feel better.

In healing any addiction, there are always a couple of components. The first is the biochemical and the second is the behavioral. Seems to me you are ready to stop but you need to sleep and you need a way to get through the discomfort of withdrawal.

Here is some data to help you...

I suspect you have trouble sleeping because your brain won't shut off. And it is used to having the drugs at that time. So if you don;t have it, you get rebound which means that you won't unwind and won't sleep. So the trick is to start learnign the things which will unwind your muscles and still your brain. Slow exercise which loosens....warrior wellness will do. Do it an hour before bedtime.

Then...food wise...have a whey shake snack mid afternoon and have a potato before bed - put butter on it.

Start taking 3-5,000 mg of vitamin C a day spaced in 5 intervals. Work up tot he higher dose. Take some fish oil and some pychnogenol.. All of these will help to clear the residual impact from your body. After you have been doing all this for 2 weeks, pick a date to not use.

And remember, addiction is not a character defect. It is an attempt to find a biochemical solution to a biochemical problem. You simply did not know another and better alternative. Now you do and you can let go of the way which is not so healthy.

Kathleen

[wiggy1]

Kathleen,

Would you recommend the same protocol for someone trying quit smoking cigarettes?

[radiantkd]

Kathleen,

Would you recommend the same protocol for someone trying quit smoking cigarettes?

No, <smile> that was designed for pot, LOL.

But I would be happy to put one together and post later this afternoon.

kathleen

[Jesse]

Thanks!!

I'll give your advice a try after Thanksgiving and keep you posted.

[Arluk]

I feel incredibly passionate about the issues of drug abuse, and about the issues of personal freedom. I think that there is a way to decrease the abusive behavior, and increase the personal freedom involved in the usage of controlled and uncontrolled substances. These things cannot happen with a zero tollerance perception of substance abuse. Drugs are not going away no matter how strict the sentence, life in prison for consumption in some countries hasn't even fazed the drug traffic. Decriminalize educate and rehabilitate should be our major focus. Jail time is just a way to sweep the dust under the rug.

[radiantkd]

Marty,

I am in total agreement about the role of rehab rather than punishment.
However, in this instance I am more interested in supporting recovery than
dealing with the politics of legality. Hope you understand.

kathleen

[Randell Waddell]

Good Morning Kathleen,

Alcohol is the main substance of abuse over here - I know from Potatoes that you have had a lot of success in this domain as well.

If you could find the time, could you post the protocol for helping overcome alcohol addiction also please.

Cheers
Randell. :D

[radiantkd]

Oh Randall,

You are funny. I wrote a whole dissertation on it :-)

But I will see what I can do.

And did you want that for all of Australia? LOL

Kathleen

[Arluk]

Kathleen,

I'm not trying to argue, especially with you, youre advice in this thread is helpfull to me in understanding how my past addictions have effected my overall health. I just though this thread could use that voice.

I am also wondering where you got your info on how marijuana effects the nerve pathways?

[Randell Waddell]

Thanks Kathleen,


And did you want that for all of Australia? LOL

:D :D :D

We do have a huge problem with grog here.

[ I believe if you put out another book on SS, Nutrition and Alcohol Addiction, you would have a lot of people buying it here in Oz. ]

Cheers
Randell. :D

[radiantkd]

Kathleen,

I am also wondering where you got your info on how marijuana effects the nerve pathways?

Did you want cites, textbooks, articles? If you can tell me what you are looking for, I can point you in the right direction.

Warmly,
Kathleen

[Arluk]

Mostly I'd like a more complete picture of how the drugs I've used have, and are continuing to effect my body years after the fact. Specifically marijuana is of interest because I abused it heavily for a couple of years. Articles would be easiest, but anything that covers the above is greatly appreciated.

[radiantkd]

ok, I will be back tonight with some concrete info.

Kathleen

[Daniel M.]

Dear Kathleen,

I really appreciate all of your posts - this one especially catches my attention. I can tell that a certain number of my students (age 19-25) are a bit pot-headed - it shows up fast - actors need their memories! The more information I have the better I can figure out how to facilitate their discovery of a more natural state! I think Canadians have a love of 'grog' on par with our Aussie cousins, but I'm fortunate that no one in any of my classes is giving me reasons to worry on that front.

Articles from the popular to the peer reviewed would be welcome - point the way and I'll track them down.

Many thanks,

Daniel

[Jesse]

Thanks to everyone...

May any overeating lead to a benevolent sugar induced temporary coma this holiday....

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!!

Just saw this thread.

Please stay away from it!!

I smoked about 3 grams a night of high grade hydroponically grown skunk weed every night for nearly 8 years and now i'm only just getting over a few years of schizophrenia.

It is just not worth it. It doesn't affect everyone the same way, all my friends still smoke it and they are not psychotic, but if you are one of the unlucky ones like myself then is gonna render you helpless.

The motivational thing is true for everyone I know. I used to have the energy of a sub-atomic particle when I was a kid, allways happy and overexcited until I started smoking.

I became a zombie and lost interest in all my hobbies except growing the stuff. Wasted 3 years studieing horticulture at college thinking I was gonna grow it for a living.

I became severley depressed, thinking about death the whole day in a permanent downward flow spiral which I coped with by thinking I was the reincarnation of john the baptist, come to prepare the world for the return of Christ.

Then I went to Amsterdam for two weeks and when I came back I was not the same. I got into mushrooms and then everything went out the window.

I would go into trances where I thought I was in another dimension recieving prophetic messages.

It wasn't till after a year of being on anti-psychotic medication that I stopped smoking the stuff.

As soon as I stopped the symptoms went away and I began to realise how much I damaged myself.

I've come to the conclusion that a major effect of cannabis is that when you start it you will be stuck in that stage of life till you give it up.

What I mean is you will not progress as far as your mindset goes and everyone else will leave you behind.

I'm fine now. Like i've said in other threads, ww followed by meditation does it for me, and now also i'm doing bodyflow.

What you will find when you give up is your mind will be stuck on your problems for about a week because you wont have all the dopamine floating around your limbic system to help you get lost in thought.

But your neurons will then compensate by producing more receptors to catch the reduced number of dopamine molecules in the synaptic gap.

The radiant recovery program really does work as well. When you read the book you'll understand the science behind it which will give you more motivation to stick with it.

Just my honest opinion on cannabis.

Cheers

[Randell Waddell]

Big respect on you for sharing this painful part of your life, Ed.

Cheers
Randell. :D

[Scott Sonnon]

Yes, big respect, Ed. You've come a long way.

[Connie Brown]

Respect from me too Ed. It means so much more when someone shares from the heart. And mind.

[radiantkd]

Hi Ed,

You have written the story of addiction. When we are in the middle of it, we think our drug makes us strong and healthy. We do not see the seduction, and the dismantling of our lives.

How sad that the shrinks who were dealing with your psychosis never said, *And Ed, are you using any drugs.*

I love what you wrote. It really touched me.

I am wondering if I might quote you in our newsletter. I would protect you identity. But I think this is one of the most clear descriptions of Marijuana addiction I have seen.

Warmly,
Kathleen

Thanks a lot everyone, it means a lot when other people recognise you are making an effort to climb out of hole you've thought and smoked yourself into.

Kathleen, that would be great if you put it in the newsletter. Hopefully it will make some people think twice before smoking it.

Thanks again everyone :)

[radiantkd]

ok, and why not come over and sign up to get the newsletters so you can read what I add <smile>

I am going to write about the biochemistry of it. And how addictions all do this whether they be pot, alcohol, sugar, work, exercise, debt, sex or gambling, LOL.

Ain‘t recovery grand!

Kathleen

Haha yes it is grand :)

I'll go and sign up for it now, thanks Kathleen!

Cheers