Lower Back ROM Strength???

[cbeltrante]

Well, I think I strained my lower back yesterday while reaching over a bar in my garage to move my 100lb sandbag, I use for training. When I was in an extreme bent over position to lift the sandbag, I felt a sharp pain in my lower back as I lifted the sandbag off the ground and placed it over the other side of the garage. I immedialtey iced my lower back last night and I've been doing some Warrior Wellness to help relieve some of the tension. I'm going the my doctor today to get his diagnosis. Hopefully it's nothing too serious.

Since this happened last night, I was wondering, how does one build strength in that extreme range of motion. I know WW and BF helps me develop the ROM and release tension, but how can I develop serious strength in that ROM to avoid this happening again in the future???

I know that you're not supposed to put yourself in that kind of position (so, the so called experts say), but what happens if you're in a real life situation where you have no choice but to reach over an obstacle to lift something that's really heavy???

Any help or input would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks,
Chris

[JasonE]

Chris -

Application of the principles in Mobilized Strength can be adapted for use with many of the movements throughout Warrior Wellness. I don't recommend using the Funambulist position for all exercises, of course. :wink:

There are some specific ideas that have come to mind, but I would like Dan Chomycia to weigh in on this question.

Aside from building strength in that particular ROM, why didn't you just move the bar instead of bending over it? It's not easy to break the habit of "cheating" instead of using biomechanically correct movements... but we almost always have the choice. :roll:

Good luck with your back! I hope to hear you're A-OK soon!

[Connie Brown]

Scott wrote somewhere, "train the movement, not the position."

Can you think of any movement that requires that sort of thing? I can't think of any CB (weighted) exercise that have you leaning out like that.

Maybe if you got the job helping people back up after they have kissed the Blarney stone. That would be leaning over and lifting heavy, over and over and.... Not that I have been there. I just saw pictures and it is weird.

[cbeltrante]

Thanks for the input!!! I'm back from the doctor and he said that it's a strained lower back. He said that I should just continue to keep icing it and doing the ROM exercises I described to him. So hopefully it won't take that long til I'm back full throttle again.

Jason,

I should've just moved the bar, but at the time I decided to just grab the sandbag and lift it.

Connie,

I've been trying to think of a Clubbell exercise that I could use to build strength in that ROM, but haven't thought of one yet. The only exercise that somewhat simulates that movement would be a barbell Good Morning exercsie. I guess I could hold a Clubbell overhead parellel with both hands(one near the knob and the other at the fat end) to the ground and bend over and simulate the movement too.

Thanks again for your input!!!

Chris

[Dan Chomycia]

Jason, and Connie are both right!

You want to train the movements to understand how to safely move the weight from different positions that will not put your back in harms way. This is what functional weight training is for.

I like to think of it as Self-Defense Training for everyday life! The one thing that great Martial Arts training should give you is the understanding of how to use your structure in very dynamic ways while loaded with the weight of another person. This sense of structure helps you to avoid injury.

Body-Flow will help you to begin to understand this sense of Structure way past what most programs do.

So go deeper into your Body-Flow.

To train the movement work on Cleans to order with a Flatfooted Squat. This comprises most normal lifting patterns. To understand different movement patterns that you can lift with you must first lift your self in the new ways (aka Body-Flow) and then incrementally look for ways to add resistance.

For pure ROM strength there is none better than Mobilized Strength, using the different protocols to gain full ROM, then strengthen the muscles that carry through that complete ROM, Then break free of any resistance by speeding up the exercises to use inertia and weight to gain greater limb speed, ROM, and joint strength.

It is important to note that Mobilized Strength in this case would provide the safety valve to help you avoid injury. You still must learn to use good structural movement to solve your lifting problems.

[cbeltrante]

Dan,

Thanks for the input!!! I understand about proper body alignment when lifting an object as not to put your back in harms way. I'm a stickler when it comes to proper form with the main powerlifts (squat and deadlift) and know them well. I was just wondering if there was a way to build strength in the extreme ROM when one is in a bentover position reaching out to lift an object. If the answer is not to lift it that way then that's the answer.


Chris

[Jarlo Ilano]

Chris,

True, that may not be the best way to lift something, but you are also correct that you might have to lift an object that way sometime in your life.

There was a series of posts awhile back here that dealt with lifting and perhaps doing so in a rounded back style. I'll try and find it.

Key to everything is incremental progression. One of the things I like most about CST philosophy is exploring all the movements we can in our bodies. If we fear being in certain positions (even for lifting), that to me is unnatural. Of course, this is not to be taken to extremes, like lifting a 300# sandbag if you are not conditioned for it.

My point being, we can condition ourselves to do alot, as long as it is rationally progressive.

Example. Bob Peoples regularly performed 600+# round back deadlifts at a bodyweight of about 170#. :shock: But not right away...

[Jarlo Ilano]

Here it is. http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2854&highlight=#2854

forget how much rambling Bob and I used to do....

[cbeltrante]

Jarlo,

I definitely agree with what you're saying. I've read alot about rounded back exercises and have tried some at a lightweight. I definitely believe in incremental progress as a means of working out. I unfortunately was in an overextended position when I lifted the sandbag and my strength in that ROM was not yet where it needed to be. I will be working on that (incrementally of course) once my back is fully healed.


Bob Peoples was an amazing man!!!!

Thanks,
Chris

[JasonE]

Thanks for the input!!! I understand about proper body alignment when lifting an object as not to put your back in harms way. I'm a stickler when it comes to proper form with the main powerlifts (squat and deadlift) and know them well. I was just wondering if there was a way to build strength in the extreme ROM when one is in a bentover position reaching out to lift an object. If the answer is not to lift it that way then that's the answer.

I'll send you a PM with some specific ideas I have on this. They are as yet untested, so I'd rather not post them openly now.

[cbeltrante]

Sounds good Jason, I'd definitely be willing to put our heads together on this and do some testing!!! I'm awaiting your PM!!!

Thanks,
Chris

[Jarlo Ilano]

[quote]

I'll send you a PM with some specific ideas I have on this. They are as yet untested, so I'd rather not post them openly now.


Nice! Hook me up too! It better not involve attaching weights to *ahem* sensitive areas.... :roll:

[JasonE]

Before I get bombed with more requests for copies, I am limiting the number of people who will receive a PM/email with these ideas to 6. Those people have already been chosen, so please no more requests.

Thanks!

[Matt_OZ]

Hi Chris, not to sound like a Pilates/Core Activation zealout but as a person who has to rehabilitated themselves and many others from lower back injuries I think I might have a good tip.

I've found that one of the biggest factors in a person's success in safe lifting (and anything else) is their own internal body awareness. By this I mean that I train myself and my clients to strengthen our backs in a neutral spine position but then teach them about how proper levels of core activation and awareness will be their safety tool for managing awkward postures. One of the biggest factors dictating success in this area is to maintain the intent of a long smooth spine, meaning that the curve in one's spine should more like a rainbow than kink (this ensures the most even distribution of load throughout the spinal structure and in turn greatly reduces the likelyhood of injury). As for the actual muscle contractions that should occur you can get an indea of this from my Core Activation article in CST mag.

I also agree with Dan and Jarlo about being able to slowly and carefully "acclimatise" to round back lifting but I feel that this should always be seen more as mobility and proprioceptive/awarenesss/skill training rather than making it into a hard working session. My take on it is that while the spine is certainly capable of amazing things it still is more delicate than other parts of the body. I fear that many people take to "hardening" or acclimitisation with a little too much enthusiasm and while some structures of the spine can adapt well others do not seem to.

Best of luck with it all,
Matt :D

[Dan Chomycia]

I just want to point out one thing before it goes into the beating a dead horse mode.

That is "lifting" is not the only way to move and object. There is dragging, pushing, and the removal of obstacles that prevent you from lifting correctly.

It is a common misconception in the industry the difference between injury proof and invincible. :wink:

[Matt_OZ]

Good call, it's good to be resilient but there's no point taking silly risks (all to easy to do if the inner T-man takes over :lol: )

Matt :D

[Jarlo Ilano]

Great points by Matt and Coach Dan.

Be prepared, but don't be silly! :D

[cbeltrante]

I appreciate all the feedback from everybody. I for one know that you shouldn't put yourself in that kind of position in the first place. I also realize I could've moved it many different ways.

I just asked "If there was a way to develop strength in that Range of Motion, just in case I encountered it in a real world situation and have no other choice but to lift an item in that ROM".

If there isn't anyway to develop strength in this ROM, that's fine. If it's just a matter of lifting it properly that's fine also.

Thanks again for all your input,
Chris

[ShaunMccrary]

I swear to you I have injured myself exponentially more putting weights on the rack then through the actual exercises themselves. Maybe If I finally bought some clubbells, I wouldn't have to worry about that anyways.

For example, today I helped run the weight training class at my local college. I had to spot 40 people for their sub-max bench attempts. I have been doing this about once a week for the last 6 weeks. Today, I just noticed that I have all kind of bound flow in between my shoulder blades from all the spotting.

[Matt_OZ]

Shaun, I can both empathise and sympathise with you in regards to spotting numerous bench press attempts. Not much fun for the back and shoulders is it? I guess you probably don't have this option but if you are able to get a helper then you can spot the bench using double spotters like in spotting a heavy squat. I used to do this sometimes when I had to spot those "lovely" :evil: people who just give up as soon as they miss an attempt and leave you holding the bar.

Tough love is the other option "I've 2 fingers worth of help coming your way so if you need anymore than that you'll be stuck under the bar till I can find an assistant". Obviously you would help them if they did get stuck but a line like that is often the only way to get certain people to avoid turning their bench session into your upright row session.

Take care mate,
Matt :D

[ShaunMccrary]

I usually use the 2 finger method. I always told them that if they needed more, they were lifting too heavy ( for bench ). I know this doesn't always hold true, but it works to keeps the uninitiated ego's in check.

Between have lower back pain for the last week due to an over zealous squat workout ( gluteus medius tightens up, externally rotates feet, impinges tailbone causing sciatic pain ), having an arterial rupture scare while mandatorily being told to max out on the leg press ( 800lbs 27 x, on the last rep of course, my vision blurred, and I had excrutiating pain shoot inot the base of my skull ), and a strained rhomboid and trap due to tightness from the bench spotting, I have had a rough 2 months.

I have taken the last week or so off of lifting and I am only doing to ROM exercises. My lower back pain disappeared after 2 days . Now it is time to chisel away at my old foe, upper back tension.

[JasonE]

For those of you waiting, I am still typing up my ideas for a progression to develop lower back ROM strength for this position. I'll get them to you as soon as possible.

[Matt_OZ]

Shaun, that's great to hear your lower back has improved so much.
Great stuff.
Matt :D