Mobility Training and Dynamic Flexibility

[WILKENS]

Hi --

This is an issue that has been in the back of my mind for a while. Actually I guess it's two issues.

First is regarding mobility drills (and I think this was touched on somewhat in an earlier post by Jay76). I think I understand the need for coordinating and refining one's movement ability, hence the need for the intermediate and advanced Warrior Wellness programs. However, movement sophistication aside, do these routines provide the same joint health benefits as, say, simply doing joint rotations until the joints stop 'crunching' -- as recommended by both Pavel and Tom Kurz. I ask because the rotations are usually done for higher reps than the recommended protocol from Warrior Wellness (and Fisticuffs and Leg Fencing, as well) of between 5 and 10 reps in a given direction for a given drill. It is my understanding that the higher reps are needed to better lubricate the joints and smooth the joint surfaces. I enjoy the infinities of the advanced Warrior Wellness program, but I find that, in some cases, only doing five reps -- in a given direction -- is not enough to dissipate the joint's crepitus (sp?). Is it simply a case of doing more reps per drill for the joints that tend to give me trouble? Or should the cumulative effect from working a joint through the 'six degrees of freedom' be enough?

Second is dynamic flexibility. I noticed while reading through Coach Sonnon's training logs that he does a lot of Warrior Wellness type drills, but not what could be called 'dynamic stretching'. Again, it's my -- perhaps wrong -- understanding that dynamic stretching is necessary to reset the nervous regulation of muscle length and tension to allow one's maximum flexibility to be displayed at 'performance' speed later in the day. When Coach refers to the Warrior Wellness exercises as Dynamic Range of Motion drills, does this mean that they basically perform the same function as more 'traditional' dynamic stretches? Are various arm swings and hand kicks done at or close to speed not necessary? Or is 'dynamic' used in this case just to differentiate from 'static' ROM drills?

Any secrets (or just clarification) you could pass on to me would be very much appreciated. :) Thanks.
Kurt

[Scott Sonnon]

I think I understand the need for coordinating and refining one's movement ability, hence the need for the intermediate and advanced Warrior Wellness programs. However, movement sophistication aside, do these routines provide the same joint health benefits as, say, simply doing joint rotations until the joints stop 'crunching' -- as recommended by both Pavel and Tom Kurz. Excellent questions, Kurt. Allow me to address frankly. What do you see as the "need for coordinating and refining one's movement ability" then? "Movement Sophistication aside" :?: That's the whole point, Kurt. Simple joint rotation lubricates the joints, washes them with nutrition and smoothes bony profiles. This is the basis of Warrior Wellness Beginner Course.

However, when it comes to Residual Muscular Tension and patterns of Sensory Motor Amnesia, increased sophistication is required. Dr. Karel Lewit, one of the world's most significant musculoskeletal specialist often said, "He who treats the site of pain, is lost." This is a very accurate and very true statement, even if one only considers that, as a basic rule of thumb, if you have an upper extremity or shoulder condition, you should pay particular attention to your opposite side foot, ankle and knee, hip, and so on across the body. Because of the complex relationship of force transmission, storage and release of elastic energy and the contralateral motions of normal conditions, disturbances of lower extremity joint mobility create a large number of shoulder injuries, or pre-dispose them to injury.

Think of it this way... most muscles are multi-joint - attach over more than one joint. Moving only simple ranges of motion does not get deep enough to release the residual tension that most people carry (to chronic degrees)... especially athletes. Most injuries are not local, but as a result of a sudden movement deviation, jerk or other poor form performance tweaking a pre-existing chain of Residual Muscular Tension. Increased movement sophistication addresses this, whereas simple movements which by definition stay within the comfort zone of established ROM cannot.


I ask because the rotations are usually done for higher reps than the recommended protocol from Warrior Wellness (and Fisticuffs and Leg Fencing, as well) of between 5 and 10 reps in a given direction for a given drill. It is my understanding that the higher reps are needed to better lubricate the joints and smooth the joint surfaces. Higher repetitions are needed by SIMPLE motions because they prove insufficient at lubricating and nutritively washing the joints. Lower repetitions are required for movements of increased sophistication; in other words, multi-joint movements involve more total joints in greater ROM than simple movements, so the sum total volume increases with increased movement sophistication. Hence movement sophistication offers greater training impact while being time sensitive.


I enjoy the infinities of the advanced Warrior Wellness program, but I find that, in some cases, only doing five reps -- in a given direction -- is not enough to dissipate the joint's crepitus (sp?). Is it simply a case of doing more reps per drill for the joints that tend to give me trouble? Or should the cumulative effect from working a joint through the 'six degrees of freedom' be enough? Don't associate your unique condition with a problem with the general protocol. The general protocol is just that... general. When one finds a local area of Residual Muscular Tension, one should keep moving that area until one resolves it. That's the whole point to Dynamic Range of Motion (AKA "movement sophistication"). You're exactly right that once you identify a problem area, your attention diverts primarily to the CHAIN of tension which manifests in the local area Remember, the point of pain is rarely the source, which is the argument for whole bodily head-to-toe DROM exercise Warrior Wellness courses performed daily.


Second is dynamic flexibility. I noticed while reading through Coach Sonnon's training logs that he does a lot of Warrior Wellness type drills, but not what could be called 'dynamic stretching'. Again, it's my -- perhaps wrong -- understanding that dynamic stretching is necessary to reset the nervous regulation of muscle length and tension to allow one's maximum flexibility to be displayed at 'performance' speed later in the day. When Coach refers to the Warrior Wellness exercises as Dynamic Range of Motion drills, does this mean that they basically perform the same function as more 'traditional' dynamic stretches? Are various arm swings and hand kicks done at or close to speed not necessary? Or is 'dynamic' used in this case just to differentiate from 'static' ROM drills? I do not need to do Dynamic Flexibility exercises because Warrior Wellness serves the same function from a different direction. If one monitors and resolves Residual Muscular Tension as it appears (or resides as the case may be), then there's no inflexibility to reset. Secondly, the 3 dimensional extreme ROM nature of Clubbell Training IS by definition both an exercise in Dynamic Flexibility and Dynamic Mobility. As a result, an athlete armed with Warrior Wellness and Clubbell Training minimizes training time and maximizes training value while minimizing recovery time.

[WILKENS]

Coach --

Wow! Thank you for the relatively immediate and quite thorough response. Please allow me a little time to try and digest it all; then I'm sure I'll be back with further questions.

Kurt

[WILKENS]

Coach --

Okay. I think I've got it. I'm wearing a big Happy Hat :D because I think -- I hope -- that I was able to successfully decipher your sophisticated locution. However, I had to try and "dumb it down" a little to be sure I understand it. Please bear with me if some if it seems redundant. Also, this post ran longer than I expected; sorry.

First, though, I'd like to explain what I was trying to get at in my initial query regarding Mobility Training. In my mind, I was addressing joint health and joint mobility as two seperate issues. To me, joint health was only an issue of providing lubrication and nutrition to the connective tissues of the joint, and smoothing the bony surfaces; I had
thought that this would be enough to prevent, or at least reduce, the risk of arthritic pain in a given joint. Joint mobility, on the other hand, would go a step further by taking into account the muscles surrounding the joint itself; I knew that these muscles would have to be worked as well to provide true freedom of movement (or "movement sophistication", if you will). This is why I had mentioned putting aside movement sophistication; they were not exactly the same thing to me. I see now, of course, that, for optimal pain-free freedom of movement, these two really can't be divorced from each other.

Now, with that in mind, please tell me if the following summation is accurate:

Simple joint rotations are adequate for joint health (providing lubrication and nutrition, and smoothing the surfaces) -- if done in high enough numbers. However, because they tend to only work a joint through what is already a comfortable and expected ROM, they don't really develop maximal mobility.
To have maximal freedom of movement (coordinating and refining one's movement ability) in and around a joint, it's necessary not only to provide for joint health (providing lubrication and nutrition, and smoothing the surfaces), but to alleviate any muscular tension (RMT and SMA) as well. To best accomplish this, a joint needs to be moved beyond its 'comfort zone', and only complex ROM drills will do this.
Because complex ROM drills are more sophisticated, and often involve more than one joint, there is a sort of cumulative effect; in other words, a given joint will be worked directly, but also indirectly as a result of moving the joints that surround it. In effect, I'm doing more with less, in two ways: First, instead of 20 or 30 or more rotations for each joint, I can do, say, 5 or 10 infinities for the elbow, and still get another 5 or 10
incidental reps for the elbow when I work the shoulder's ROM. Second, complex ROM drills will provide for the health of the joint itself while also addressing the issues of RMT and SMA, something that simple rotations can't do.
When I find a joint or ROM that gives me trouble, it is acceptable to carry on with my reps -- beyond 5 or 10 -- until I've "worked it out", but where I feel the pain may not be the spot of the actual injury.

I must confess, this last part confuses me. Is it too simplistic to say that, if I feel pain in my right shoulder, it's likely resulting from some sort of dysfunction (injury, whatever) in my left leg or hip? In that event, would I even be aware of any pain or discomfort at the site of the actual injury (the leg, say)?

Now, as to the dynamic flexibility issue. You said: "If one monitors and resolves Residual Muscular Tension as it appears (or resides as the case may be), then there's no inflexibility to reset." I think I understand what you're saying here, but it seems at odds with other materials I've read. Isn't flexibility speed specific? What of the muscle spindles/stretch receptors that monitor both the magnitude and the velocity of a stretch?
How can doing relatively slow ROM drills -- even sophisticated ones -- address these particular receptors? And the issue of specificity -- if one needs to demonstrate high kicks without a warm-up, to use the popular example, shouldn't one do some type of dynamic stretching? (I hope these questions don't come across as argumentative; I'm just trying to understand.)

After all this, incredibly, I still feel like I haven't adequately expressed what I was trying to say. :? Anyway, I guess that's more than enough for now. Sorry again, Coach, for taking up much of your time. I can be a little dense sometimes, so I'm just trying to get a handle on this subject; it's been on my mind for a while now.

Thanks.
Kurt

[Scott Sonnon]

Kurt, don't sweat it. Your questions are very insightful.

Your summation is well-stated. Well done wading through my response. :wink:


When I find a joint or ROM that gives me trouble, it is acceptable to carry on with my reps -- beyond 5 or 10 -- until I've "worked it out", but where I feel the pain may not be the spot of the actual injury. I must confess, this last part confuses me. Is it too simplistic to say that, if I feel pain in my right shoulder, it's likely resulting from some sort of dysfunction (injury, whatever) in my left leg or hip? In that event, would I even be aware of any pain or discomfort at the site of the actual injury (the leg, say)?
Chain Reaction Diagnostics is a very sophisticated methodology, but with very simple principles.

Basically, impact travels diagonally across the body, like our handedness, because of the organization of our brain and as a result, our (generally) contralateral movement - a process called Back Force Transmissions Systems. Furthermore, when you receive impact trauma, it (typically) travels to the first softest place along the skeleton: connective tissue. To protect that damage, muscles act defensively by creating patterns of 'bracing' in order to prevent further damage. This is a natural and beneficial reflex, but sustained become chronic patterns of Fear-Reactivity distorting posture and impeding movement capability.

Imagine these having these networks of Residual Muscular Tension cascading unresolved throughout one's body. Now, imagine lifting, jerking or making any sudden, intense or deviating movement. The precondition of RMT (and the absence of critical ROM through degenerative SMA) predisposes one to injury - something as simple as a sudden, protective stretch reflex causing injury somewhere along the chain of muscle tension.

When one says that the point of pain is not the source, it may refer to this fact. You may have a local issue because you were predisposed to injury due to RMT and SMA.


Now, as to the dynamic flexibility issue. You said: "If one monitors and resolves Residual Muscular Tension as it appears (or resides as the case may be), then there's no inflexibility to reset." I think I understand what you're saying here, but it seems at odds with other materials I've read. Isn't flexibility speed specific? What of the muscle spindles/stretch receptors that monitor both the magnitude and the velocity of a stretch?
How can doing relatively slow ROM drills -- even sophisticated ones -- address these particular receptors? And the issue of specificity -- if one needs to demonstrate high kicks without a warm-up, to use the popular example, shouldn't one do some type of dynamic stretching? (I hope these questions don't come across as argumentative; I'm just trying to understand.)
Personally, I think that flexibility training is highly overemphasized. Coordination training, AKA Essential Synergy, offers greater performance and health benefits because mobility training is by definition real-world flexibility.

This stated, there are different schools of thought. I ascribe to the school of thought that the preponderance of poor performance is due not to the inadequacy of 'untrained' attributes, but rather to self-imposed and conditioned impediments to natural talent, our innate bodily genius. The more conventional school of thought addresses the improvement of flexibility, where the school of thought to which I subscribe concludes that one achieves greater health and performance from the removal of inflexibility (so, in effect, little emphasis on 'flexibility training').

As can be seen in Leg Fencing or Fisticuffs, I do endorse speed-specific dynamic flexibility exercises. Clubbell Training by its very nature is an exercise in both dynamic mobility and dynamic flexibility. However, I don't emphasize it as a separate compartment of training.

[cobb]

Great discussion, guys!

This level of interaction and education is one of the primary reasons that CST is the cutting edge of human performance enhancement!

With regards to the the questions about Chain Reaction Assessment, and whether or not you would feel pain at the PRIMARY site of dysfunction - the answer is typically, "No." I always try to get people to understand that pain is not a "thing" in and of itself. It is simply a warning signal of sorts - but it is RARELY specific to the actual underlying biomechanical flaw.

Also, with regards to the dynamic flexibility exercises, Coach Sonnon already mentioned that sports speed specific training is an integral part of all that we do, but is not over-emphasized. What we always want understood however, is that increasing sophsitication of movement almost always increases performance speed. Additionally, many of our dynamic mobility drills can be done at sport specific speed AFTER they have been well grooved and the concept of incremental progression fully embraced.

Thanks for the very interesting and entertaining thread!

Dr. C

[Jhurley]

I was about to post something similar to Coach Sonnon but his in depth answers cleared up what I wanted and in fact added to my understanding of the subject.

Thank you all
John

[WILKENS]

Coach Sonnon --

Thank you both for your very informative posts. However, because I’m never completely satisfied, could you double-check my logic and reasoning on a couple of things?

Coach wrote: “Personally, I think that flexibility training is highly overemphasized. Coordination training, AKA Essential Synergy, offers greater performance and health benefits because mobility training is by definition real-world flexibility.”
Would it be safe to say, then, that striving to do the splits in the belief that it would improve one’s performance would be akin to the belief that achieving some particular magic number in the bench press -- 315 or 405 or whatever -- would significantly improve one’s performance? While these things could be beneficial, it’s quite possible for an athlete who can do neither of these to be successful in any given endeavor. Thus, an athlete would be better served by foregoing a ‘stretching session’ and focusing on more sophisticated movement drills, such as Warrior Wellness or even Body Flow. (Am I close?)

“What we always want understood however, is that increasingsophsitication of movement almost always increases performance speed.”
Because sophisticated movement drills, such as the infinities that I like so much, will work to remove RMT and SMA, and a muscle/body with minimal tension is a ‘faster’ muscle/body. (No?)

Coach wrote: “As can be seen in Leg Fencing or Fisticuffs, I do endorse speed-specific dynamic flexibility exercises. Clubbell® Training by its very nature is an exercise in both dynamic mobility and dynamic flexibility.”
I’m going to need to reference those vidoes again; it’s been a while since I’ve watched them. Perhaps they will help illustrate your points on speed-specific dynamic exercises. Otherwise, what you’re saying is, a program incorporating both Warrior Wellness and CBs would provide more than sufficient mobility and flexibility to meet the needs of most sports/daily activities -- splits and high kicks not withstanding? Traditional ‘stretching’ methods -- active and isometric -- would be superfluous? (Unless one had the desire to do the splits, of course.)

Gentlemen, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to expound on these issues. It's providing me with quite a bit to think about -- to the extent that I had trouble falling asleep last night. :shock:

Thank you.
Kurt

P.S. - Let me know when you've had enough; the last thing I want to be is one of those people who "just doesn't get it" and won't let it go. :lol:

[Scott Sonnon]

Would it be safe to say, then, that striving to do the splits in the belief that it would improve one’s performance would be akin to the belief that achieving some particular magic number in the bench press -- 315 or 405 or whatever -- would significantly improve one’s performance? While these things could be beneficial, it’s quite possible for an athlete who can do neither of these to be successful in any given endeavor. Thus, an athlete would be better served by foregoing a ‘stretching session’ and focusing on more sophisticated movement drills, such as Warrior Wellness or even Body-Flow. (Am I close?) Precisely.


Because sophisticated movement drills, such as the infinities that I like so much, will work to remove RMT and SMA, and a muscle/body with minimal tension is a ‘faster’ muscle/body. (No?) Exactly, the school of thought to which I referred.


a program incorporating both Warrior Wellness and Clubbells would provide more than sufficient mobility and flexibility to meet the needs of most sports/daily activities -- splits and high kicks not withstanding? Traditional ‘stretching’ methods -- active and isometric -- would be superfluous? (Unless one had the desire to do the splits, of course.) Yes, exactly.

Kurt, you're very welcome. Your questions are excellent, and enjoyable to read. Don't hesitate to ask anything.

[Chuck Kechter]

Great Discussion! Thanks to all.

Chuck

[sin_goodfellow]

I second that. Quite informative.

Thanks,
Jesse

[Ken Harper]

Coach Sonnon, Dr. C:

I was about to ask a Q related to a nagging, ongoing (although lessening) irritation/inflammation of what I think is the gastrocmenius/plantaris/sartoris region (basically, the muscles & joints "behind" my right knee and in the area of the upper calf). It occurred while jumping rope earlier this year and landing wrong.

Took months to get to the point where I had enough ROM to sit on the floor with legs crossed in position akin to lotus position.

In any event, this thread helped suggest what kinds of movements I might try based on what I now "know" or at least am aware of re: injury, pain, recovery, etc.

I would hope and appreciate it if you would develop this into an article (or articles) some time in the future.

The "thinking man's coach" and the "thinking man's doctor" made this man think. And thanks to Kurt and others for generating the thread!

Thanks much,

Ken

[Scott Sonnon]

Ken,
Palpate the area and give me a reading of discomfort from 1 being the slightest pain and 10 the worst.
Palpate your right Achilles, Calcaneal Spur, Fibular Head and Trochantor Major. Where do you feel pain and what level (1-10)?
Now, palpate your coccyx, Iliac crest and L4-S1. Where and to what levels?
Have you been combining any big lifts like deadlifts with your GS?
What kind of shoes have you been wearing and on what kind of surface?

[Ken Harper]

Scott:

Before seeing your message, today I did C&J Long Cycle w/ 2 16s for total of 101 reps (66 in 6:20; 35 in 3:40, w/ 2 min rest interval). This is usually more than enough to cause problems. So...

I then did 5:00 step-ups using 2 32 kg KBs, 2 24 kg KBs) going up 3 different elevations (4", 8", 12") and loaded calf stretches w/ 32s, 24s, and 16s off a 45 lb. plate for elevation.

After core work, I closed w/ few minutes of standing hamstring stretches (1 leg wrapped around the other, bend over, touch nose to knee), WW knee/leg rotations (infinities), the happy slap-dance from Z, and the beginner's level of the 4-corner drill (w/o having seen it posted here or via e-mail from Dolfzine!).

Right now I feel great & tomorrow is a Body-Flow/Maximology day for recovery/relaxation.

In the past I did heavy (for me) DLs 1 - 2x/week (300 - 360 lbs) + GS. I train in ancient Nike basketball high-tops that are flat-soled, and train either on dirt, bark dust covering the ground, or grass. (Today I was on grass, other than for step-ups, which were on concrete.) Or I go barefoot or use RMAX foot gloves!

The problem usually manifests itself in the evening or, more usually, the morning after, when I feel tight &/or have restricted ROM w/ pain at level 3 - 5. I wake up, do Hanna's "cat stretches" for Sensory Amnesia...and then meditate/pray for 1/2 hour, w/ 15 minutes in lotus and 15 minutes or so in seiza-like position w/ cushion supporting my butt so full weight isn't resting on gastrocmenius, et al.. I then walk my dog barefoot on morning grass for proprioceptive wake-up, do breathing (Dykhaniye) & come inside & do either WW, Be Breathed, and/or other JM recharge drills for 10 minutes or more. By then, I know whether I'll be wincing as I walk downstairs or stand up.

So tomorrow morning, I'll follow your instructions and report back.

Thx much,

Ken

[Scott Sonnon]

Ken,
The point of tension is obviously not the root issue. You determined the root - your rope jumping injury to your ankle.
If it is your gastroc experiencing increased tension (and you assess the tender attachments I've listed above), then I suspect that with your level and type of activities coupled with your prior trauma to your ankle causing defensive bracing (Fear-Reactivity), that you're hyper immobilizing it through these activities listed. I suspect that it causes a kinetic chain of tension manifesting most ostensibly in your gastroc.
A hardy dose of slow and smooth ankle and toe rotations in a low Four Corner Balance Drill (front, side and turned back, rear, and across the front) of 8-10 circles in both directions, infinities if you can muster the coordination, should resolve the prior issue. Hit the knee circles/infinities as well since this abates it already. This should release the residual tension. Then repeat with 3-5 reps as necessary after a heavy session until you no longer have any Fear-Reactivity in the area.
Let me know how this works for you.

[Ken Harper]

Will do. Thx much.

[jasonB]

In relation to the question on high kicks - I've personally noticed that the ability to do high kicks IS NOT based on great levels of flexibility. It's based on a healthy level of mobility in the hip, pelvis and lower spine (simple joint circles would provide more than enough of this) along with the coordination of these joints, plus the breath, in getting the most movement. Example: people think they need, say, a front split for front kicks. WRONG! I can easily front kick to head height, but standing and swinging my leg straight up (with my pelvis immobilized), I can only get it to about my waist, possibly even a little lower. All the "extra" movment comes from exhaling while moving the pelvis forward/up (think of the pelvic movement in be breathed). For maximum mobility, coordination is where it's at - when one joint can go no further, start using up the slack in the next joint up the chain (in the high kicks, for instance, you work the hip, then get extra movement from the pelvis). Over seven years or so of tae kwon do, this was always my experience: people who couldn't kick at head height suffered from unhealthily rigid pelvises and lower spines and the inability to coordinate them with the hip, not from stiff hamstring muscles.

Jason

[jasonB]

Also, I should point out that the above observations apply to high round/side kicks as well. Done properly, these resemble a donky kick in hip action, allowing the pelvis to come into play and putting only a moderate stretch in the groin muscles.

Jason

[Ken Harper]

Coach Sonnon:

This a.m. I awoke & added leg/ankle infinities to Sensory Amnesia Cat Stretch, and then, after meditating/dog walking barefoot on 45 degree field & doing breathing exercises, came back in and did protocol you recommended (low 4 corners, ankle circles, leg infinities).

There's tenderness/weakness when I get into full, SINGLE-leg squat (not 2 legged), esp on negative, but this is so much better than the usual morning-after GS. (Normally, I'd be taking weight off right leg to go downstairs.)

I'll continue with the low-4 corner, et al., and report back on days after GS.

BTW: iin doing palpations, I had no pain/discomfort whatsoever. It only manifests ini right leg when doing single-legged squats (flat footed or on ball of feet) and in seiza-like positions -- a level "2" or "3."

Also, when I originally injured myself, it was my knee -- probably the meniscus -- that I damaged, not the ankle. Sorry for any confusion my (mis-)communication may have casued.

Again, my sincere thanks.

Ken

[Scott Sonnon]

Ken,
Okay, that makes more sense: the swing phase of your gait impacted by a knee injury rather than the stance phase of your gait impacted by an ankle injury.

It *may* be (emphasis on "one will never know over the internet") like a Medial Meniscus Injury, since you provoke pain on stair climbing and descent and... exacerbated by GS.

Any tenderness over pes anserine bursa (Posteromedial knee)?
Palpate medial joint line with knee flexed on your back (1-10 scale) and report back.

Externally rotate your foot (toes outward) and do 5 knee circles in each direction. Any pain? Any clicking? What severity (1-10)?
Internally rotate your foot (toes inward) and repeat. Any pain? Any clicking? What severity (1-10)?

Now with foot rotated externally extend your leg upward at a 45 degree angle slowly (lying on you back). Any pain? Any clicking? What severity (1-10)?

Out of curiosity, palpate your xiphoid and give me a 1-10 as well, please.

[Ken Harper]

Coach Sonnon:

Today was a GS/snatch day w/ 24s. Total of 160 reps (80/80) in 10:35 w/ 24kg -- 9:20 or so non-stop. 40/40 L,R before switching. Great progress from previous week when I could only go 6:20 non-stop. Also jogged/did intervals for approx 10 min. Normally my gastrocs would be tighter than conga drums, but not today.

I did 4 corners as instructed last night, w/ knee circles, ankle circles, infinities, etc. this a.m., and after the GS training. I also added calf stretches (32s, 24s, 16s, racked while I did calf raises from 45lb plate) and hip flexor stretches, ankle flexes (against floor) while sitting seiza style w/ rolled blanket as cushion beneath posterior of knees.

My right leg feels better than it has since January.

Tomorrow, the day after, is the acid test, so I'll report back in then...

To answer your Q's.

>>Any tenderness over pes anserine bursa (Posteromedial knee)?
Palpate medial joint line with knee flexed on your back (1-10 scale) and report back<< 0

>>Externally rotate your foot (toes outward) and do 5 knee circles in each direction. Any pain? <<0
>Any clicking?< No, only once when I walked post-workout
>What severity< (1-10)? 0/1
>Internally rotate your foot (toes inward) and repeat. Any pain? Any clicking? What severity (1-10)? < No "pain", but definitely felt the stretch, so did more. No clicking

>Now with foot rotated externally extend your leg upward at a 45 degree angle slowly (lying on you back). Any pain? Any clicking? What severity (1-10)? < 0

>Out of curiosity, palpate your xiphoid and give me a 1-10 as well, please.< Scott, could only locate "xiphoid process" re sternum in my Joint Structure & Function book. So, struck out on this one.

The 4-corner ankle circles & flexing the ankles against the floor in seiza-like position w/ blanket under knee really seem to work wonders. As do standing ankle circles. Surprisingly, the "clicking/cracking" is in the ankles, not the knee.

This protocol seems to be working wonders. I'll report back tomorrow.

My profound thanks,

Ken

[Scott Sonnon]

Ken, you're welcome. As a strength athlete, unless otherwise mobilized your ankles and feet receive tremendous compression. Coupled with your injury, your kinetic chain of tension seemed almost to be expected. It seems like we found the culprit. Well done!

[Ken Harper]

Most of you are too young to remember Chester, Matt Dillon's sidekick, on the most popular TV show of the 50s. He had a gimpy leg and hobbled along as best he could. It's sort of what I felt like, even if I didn't look the role, the after doing GS.

Not today.

It's the day after I did a PR in KB snatches, and 3 days after a PR in Long Cycle Clean and Jerk. Normally, I'd be doing a serious Chester imitation with tight gastrocs and weakness in the right posterior knee.

But, Scott's -- Coach Sonnon's -- earlier comments about injury afflicting soft tissue and stop wasting your time focusing on the injured spot itself but look for the kinetic chain...PLUS...a joint mobility protocol specific to the problematic kinetic chain...has produced wonders.

Oh, there's some tenderness, tightness, and some weakness, but I have ROM and strength that I haven't felt since January.

I still have a ways to go for full rehab, but at least now I know a way to get there and will listen to my body closely to stay the course and apply the diagnostic and recovery principles discussed earlier in this thread.

This Z-"stuff" works. And once you get an idea of how it works, you can figure out how to make it work for you. It's the old teach a man to fish parable.

Thank you, Coach Sonnon.

Ken

[Scott Sonnon]

Ken, you're welcome. It was my pleasure to help. Congratulations!

[Strike5I]

All:

Just wanted to chime in with kudos. What an amazing and informative discussion. I love being a part of this forum. I've learned more in the last 10 minutes of reading than I have from some complete books.

Eric