Post-workout carbs and sugar sensitive people

[Connie Brown]

During Coach Sonnon's interview with Dave DePew at World Talk Radio, the question came up about post-workout nutrition and sugar (fast carbs). Coach Sonnon simply said no, he doesn't use sugar even then and the conversation moved on. (Coach Sonnon's interview (http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=2689))

I thought it would be fun to elaborate on this a little.
I have my thoughts on the best practices for a sugar sensitive person but I also want to hear from Scott and Kathleen (hint, hint)

Background:

For those of you new to this, Dr. John Berardi has good articles on this topic complete with the science references (thank you Dr. John). Post-workout nutrition was the subject of his PhD dissertation. (he's an exercise and nutrition guy).

FYI Dr. John's conclusions and recommendations do not take into account the biochemistry of sugar sensitivity.

Solving the Post Workout Puzzle, Part I (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_1.htm)

Science and basic understanding... eye-rolling detail about muscles and fuel. Solving the Post Workout Puzzle, Part II (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_2.htm)

So what to do after a workout ... more eye-rolling detail about grams of protein and carb. Post Workout Nutrition for Girls (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/women/post_workout_interview.htm)

Less science and more how-to. The "for girls" part is because so many female athletes are in sports where they want to keep the weight down (as opposed to male athletes who just want "big"). Applies to anyone in activities where weight-to-strength matters.

[Scott Sonnon]

Connie,

The problem people have with nutition, in my mind at least, has been addressed by Kathleen's approach. I honestly don't see the need to go beyond her approach to tell you the truth. I don't see any gaps. Even if not a sugar sensitive individual, Radiant Recovery covers the role that addiction plays in derailing people from achieving their goals. Non-sugar sensitive (poor eating) habits are just fledgling addictions - some will mature, others will remain marginal, but they all can be addressed from the perspective of recovery, as I see Kathleen's work.

When it comes to physique or athletics, I believe that the only problem is lack of patience. I believe lack of motivation and persistence are addiction related, a separate issue in my opinion. And although I believe impulsivity plays a role in patience, I believe the desire for instant gratification corrodes the will of most people. I believe that this is a poor planning issue, as a result. Long range goals, scheduled into short and near term increments to provide constant incremental success is the way to go, in my opinion.

Issues like post workout nutrition appears to me to be a reversed investigation. To me, it would appear that it is much more effective, and much longer lasting (from a discipline standpoint) to program workouts around one's meal structure, as well as the meal's nutritive values.

I do believe that people would change their goals if they did the food first, and then add on movement. I believe that their goals would become realistic, achievable and more fulfilling if they did so. I believe that their successes would stop the peak/valley roller coast; that people would intuitively match the movement (intensity, energy system, duration, selection) to their unique temporal energetic rhythm, rather than merely forcibly attempt to 'fuel their workouts'.

These are my theories based upon my personal experience and those I privately consult (not many these days - just too little time for private clients.)

To perhaps obviate all of my above explanation, I believe that post workout nutrition may be a moot issue, which is why I didn't entertain the question during the interview.

[madamek]

Scott --

your take on Kathleen's program and its interface with physical movement was really interesting. It exactly mirrors my experience. I have been working on her program for 5 years this spring, with a solid, stable detox since last February (and several years of dinking around and being stuck in my addiction prior to that).

For the first time in my life, I am doing regular movement stuff, understand how important it is to set incremental goals rather than all or nothing stuff (which is my history), just as you suggest. AND, as you say motivation and persistance are ABSOUTELY biochemical, no question. I now have both motivatoin and persistence as a result of my recovery.

I am really interested in your comment that we should structure our physical life around our nutrition. Could you share more about your observations with this? I am interested to hear your thoughts on how you would tailor physical activity around Kathleen's proposed approach to doing the food.

thanks! Maggi

[Scott Sonnon]

Maggi,

I don't believe it's really complicated, though the fact of sugar sensitivity may make it difficult (but that's the point of both RR and CST, as I see it.)

There are two paths: the first is the transition through RR's steps, and then there's the Step 7-esque ongoing intuitive tailoring to the daily, weekly, seasonal, annual, periodic changes we undergo as we age.

Regarding transitionary inclusion of physical activity... These are the steps I would suggest to take concurrent with RR's 7 Steps, IF you are capable of doing so. If it becomes too overwhelming, then the food is more important than the movement, in my opinion. For some people, transitioning through both may be too much.
Step 1: You need a full tank when you're first learning the skill of breakfast, so I would encourage people to begin movement right after the meal; very short duration (5-10min.), light movement (RPE of 2-3).

Step 2: Learn to journal physical activity, and the skill of rating perceived exertion, technique and discomfort.

Step 3: Add very short duration (5-10min.), light movement (RPE of 2-3) after each of the three meals (in other words, 3X/day everyday). Record in journal where energy level is highest throughout the day (factor in changes in social, family, career, intrapersonal stress) - and pay close attention to what you've eaten that day and 2-3 days prior. Look for patterns. The protein times perfectly with this.

Step 4: Begin to experiment with one moderately long (20-25 minutes), higher RPE (approx. 6-8 ) session once per day. You should insert this higher effort session at the 'peak' point of the pattern you detected through journaling in Step 3. If you can't yet intuit how often to do this, then the fail safe is to have this every 4-5 days. On the day that you do this moderately long, higher effort session, do not do the 3X/day very short, light movement after each meal. Also, be forgiving in the following 2-3 days after, if you don't have the energy to return to the 3X/day of very short, light movement after each meal.

Step 5: Every 7-8 days, on the day and in the time of that day that you feel highest energetically, add a long session (40-45 minutes of RPE 5-6). The higher quality carbs will give you the energy to do this. Be forgiving in the days that follow. Use your tools you have now: add short, light movement after each meal that you can, rest and recover when you feel lower energetically. Sometimes it may be another 2-3 days before you feel like doing another movement session. That's okay.

Step 6: Return to Step 3 (do only very short duration, light movement after each meal). Be as consistent as possible through your detox, but be forgiving. Detox sucks. You're going to be crabby. Pray. Cry. Scream. Laugh. Sometimes movement will help. Other times, just be patient with yourself, and get through to the 5th day. You'll get through it, though.

Step 7: This is where it all begins, in my opinion. This is where you truly begin to explore Intuitive Training. Journaling helps you learn to pay attention to all of the pervasive stresses in your life and how they impact your energy levels. You need to factor this into how and when you move. Any slight or dramatic variations in your food determine how and when you move as well. For me, sometimes I'll get a large, heavy protein meal, and although I may not feel like moving immediately afterwards, I know that big energy is coming... Also, at this point your biorhythm will start to guide your food. In anticipation of an upcoming peak in energy, you may start wanting to eat more protein, for instance. It's really fun to start to explore this, and let yourself be guided internally by a trusted hand in what you eat, and when you move, and on what day. There is a rhythm and tempo to it (as I've written about with the Fibonacci sequence.).
These are just my discoveries. They may or may not help you. If they do, please let me know, so we can talk about it here!

[madamek]

Thanks for responding, Coach. There is a TON of information and insights in your remarks. I will have to read it over numerous times, print it off, tuck it in my CST log and keep re-reading it as I move along.

It is really really interesting, and I don't think I fully understand it - probably because I'm so early in teh game.

i really appreciate you writing all of it out, tho' - it's really quite amazing!

looking forward to swinging my clubbells for the first time over this weekend,

Maggi