hard work missing links

[ninjaboy]

:shock: Most people who study tma (traditional martial arts) never really gain any real mastery over what they do for two reasons Lack of soft work, and incomplete understanding of hard work.

The first misconseption is that hard martial arts should feel like work at all. This comes from the conditioning programs that tma used to exhaust the student before the real work began so they had no energy or stregnth to do it wrong.

The 2nd major mistake is lack of core motion in the practice. In other words trying to do to much with the arm and not enough with the body.

The third is lack of balance. And when I say balance I am not talking about the standing on one leg balance. I am talking about the balance of opposites. In the arm it is the balance of alignment between the bicep and tricep. The quad and hamstring in the leg and so on. In combat it is the balance between attacker and defender.

Everyone has heard of the unbendable arm. Supposedly some mystical thing in aikido, but the reality is it is just the magic angle 135* At that point the oposing sides become balanced and all force applied becomes "0".

And the forth is the lack of listening to the body. The body tells you where the balance point is when you are in postures, blocks, punches, and kicks, you just have to listen and let it talk

[Scott Sonnon]

Welcome to RMAX. I look forward to reading expansions and refinements of your ideas. Please visit the Welcome Mat and introduce yourself using your real full name so we can get to know you, and help you towards your goals.

[ninjaboy]

Let's digress for a minute and let me define hard work and soft work in my own way. Hard work is effective use of the skeleton to controll and manipulate personal space to act with or against an opposing force in a direct, efficent and power free manner. (when you swing a hammer, the hammer, momentum, and gravity do the work. Once in motion the only things the muscles should be doing is guiding it to the target.)

Soft work is the use of soft tissue to manuver the body to neurtalize attacks dissapate force so ultimately the oponent fights himself to defeat.

The biggest difference between the two is density not tension.

In hard work the space is maintained manipulated through core motion. (efficent spinal off balance and recovery). Effective use of the transit system. (or the legs catching the falling core.) And proper use of the delivery system. (In other words using your weapons in an effecive threatning/non threatning manner.)[This includes your spine and intention]
In fact the position of your heart in relation to your oponent's heart can be vital.

Distancing,alignment, timing and core motion take precidence over speed and power. I was once in a fight with one of my friends and I hit him once and ducked under his punches. They were fast and would have hurt but none of them hit target.
Every motion that you make if made with proper distancing timing alignment and core motion should effect the balance of the attacker, either mental,physical, or emotional. (Many times all of the above)

Three step sparing allows us to study evasion and delivery using what ever core motion we choose. So we don't get locked down into position just in case we do it wrong. Work slow and deliberate with punches and kicks first by not being where the danger is going to be and then add in retaliations that not just sting but also disrupt the skeleton, body balance, or alignment of the oponent. Then look at the targets that become available, and attack there.

[Chuck Kechter]

Please follow Coach Sonnon's (and forum) guidelines and introduce yourself. . .

As to your definitions of Hardwork and Softwork. . . Well, no offence, but you've missed the mark, (and mangled some metaphors in the process). . .

You can't divorce skeleton from soft tissue (unless you're a mutant of some sort).


Hard work is effective use of the skeleton to controll and manipulate personal space to act with or against an opposing force in a direct, efficent and power free manner.

Maybe. This is the closest you come to "getting it."


(when you swing a hammer, the hammer, momentum, and gravity do the work. Once in motion the only things the muscles should be doing is guiding it to the target.)

Actually, this could be a definition for softwork--not hard--as it is about EFFICIENCY of movement--bringing about efficacy. . . And having framed houses for a living in my youth, I know pleanty of "old timers," that--using this definition--used softwork to swing their hammers all day long. . .


Soft work is the use of soft tissue to manuver the body to neurtalize attacks dissapate force so ultimately the oponent fights himself to defeat

No.

Softwork is a protocol, or methodology of exploring movement, creating, re-learning, and re-mastering efficiency, and addressing issues of fear-reactivity.


The biggest difference between the two is density not tension.

These can be the same thing, for tension "creates" tissue density (though I'll allow that there is also emotional denstiy [which manifests in the tissues], mental density [note how nice I am not to point fingers] :wink: and spiritual density ).



In hard work the space is maintained manipulated through core motion. (efficent spinal off balance and recovery). Effective use of the transit system. (or the legs catching the falling core.) And proper use of the delivery system. (In other words using your weapons in an effecive threatning/non threatning manner.)[This includes your spine and intention]
In fact the position of your heart in relation to your oponent's heart can be vital.

This is true of BOTH Hardwork AND Softwork. Although some of this is just poetry for the writing of words. . .


Distancing,alignment, timing and core motion take precidence over speed and power. . . .
Every motion that you make if made with proper distancing timing alignment and core motion should effect the balance of the attacker, either mental,physical, or emotional. (Many times all of the above)

Both Hardwork and Softwork again. . . Sigh. . .

I could go on. . . **shakes head**

Missed it by that much!

[Scott Sonnon]

Excellent clarifications, Chuck! 8)

Julian, though we definitely support and appreciate your enthusiasm, I suggest that you begin by studying the Three Dimensional Performance Pyramid manual to begin to fully grasp Chuck's clarifications.

[ninjaboy]

It helps me to see how your views of soft work hand hard work differ. I'm ordering the book and look forewad to the other insights that it may unfold. And I have introduced myself on the welcom mat. On the soft work coach sonnon said that hard work and soft work become bumper pads that we use to bounce our oponent around like a pinball. And the martial art I study covers a vast spectrum of both hard and soft sometimes undicernable. In my still youthfull and humbly little experience compared to your 30+ years I have been blessed to have seen some of the best people in the world move.

Having said that I have also had a fascination in watching both rote motion and radical motions in and out of martial arts and have been on the receiving end of both types of blows.

And my view on hard work comes from a strong traditional asian martial arts base where It was not just a 1 on 1 fight but thousands vs thousands and you may have just been disarmed and now have to take on 10 guys empty hand vs weapons. Which leaves very little room for error. And exhaustion is fatal. So the hammer analogy is an excelent analogy. (I'm glad it hit home for you) :wink:

As far as marks go. It's my definition So I can't miss. And if It conflicts with the official rmax view I'm sorry. (note the views and thoughts on this post are the sole brain child of a lowly martial artist in cincinnai, oh and may not reflect the rmax way of looking at or dealing with training) Although If you should hapen to like something you read here thank you. And if you hate it thanks for your time. Look at it in a year if you still hate it then, I'm sorry I wasted your time. :lol:

As far as moving the skeleton is concerned. It's not that you jump out of your skin and dance around. There are many different parts to the central nervous system. The receptors in the joints give us position sense. They also tell us where our skeleton is. So using the idea to only move the bone or elbow or knee.........Allows us to have a model through wich we strip away every thing but clean motion. Thus we also find natural alignment between muscle, bone, and motion.

There was a man who in a drunken state decided to challenge his teacher to a fight by swinging at him. The fight was over in less than ten secconds and the man had to have his mandable stapled back together, it was split at the chin. One punch ended it. That is the essence of hard work. In my humble opnion.

[Coach Billew]

Julian,

It is fine to have your own opinion, and to try to understand concepts in your own way. On the other hand when you encounter Chuck who has direct experience of Softwork and Hardwork as we use the terms here, and Coach Sonnon who developed the use of these terms, you might want to be a bit more open to the information they are trying to share with you.

Of course if something isn't copyrighted (I believe Hardwork and Softwork are)you can use the term however you want. However for the people of this community these terms have specific meaning. So to come here, and redefine the terms without direct experience of our work seems a bit arrogant and silly.

Softwork and Hardwork are not methods of martial art as you seem to suggest, rather they are training protocols. A specific instance of real world fighting does not represent either Hardwork or Softwork. In a real confrontation there is only your biomechanics and strategy in response to the situation. Softwork and Hardwork are a continuum of training to prepare yourself for life.

Also just a small point, I am pretty sure Coach said at Softwork that your pre-owned techniques form bumper plates for your partner not Hardwork and Softwork.

[Scott Sonnon]

Well written, Slade, and yes, that is what I did say regarding pre-owned techniques (introduced in the Guiding Flow vs. Lock Flow section of the seminar.)

Julian, as I wrote earlier, we appreciate your enthusiasm and excitement to learn RMAX. Just begin with an open mind so that you can.

[Chuck Kechter]

Julian wrote:

And I have introduced myself on the welcom mat.

I missed it. . . Sorry about that. . .

As to the rest. What was said above by Slade--who was at the inaugural Softowrk seminar (as was I)--as well as being a many year vet of RMAX/ROSS, and Coach Sonnon covers it.

All the best.