Calling all Judoka!

[SteveB]

Just wondering if any other Judoka are using Coach Sonnon's system, and what exactly they've found useful. For me: clubbells for grip, torque, and strengthening ROM, Body-Flow for creative matwork, WW for unwinding the body at day's end. Who had good experiences or observations to share?

Steve

[Scott Sonnon]

Steve, several of the most prominent Judoka behind my system include Igor Yakimov, World Masters Judo Champion (also International Sambo Champion) and Lloyd Irvin, U.S. National Judo Champion (also BJJ World Silver medalist and International SOMBO Champion), Igor Zinoviev, USSR Judo Champion (also Soviet Sambo Champion and NHB Champion), Mark Tripp (8th degree Black Belt, Kosen Judo and Sambo Combatives expert) and of course, Neil Ohlenkamp, former USA Judo Team Coach and head instructor of the famous Encino Judo Club.

[Chuck Kechter]

Steve,

I hate to follow the list that Coach Sonnon posted as I am nowhere near their caliber of player. But Judo is the "backbone" of the grappling systems I play with. I began the study while in college back in the mid eighties.

As to what I use from Coach Sonnon--Zdorovye, Grappler's toolbox, Body Flow (the book) and Maximology for BME's, and Kinetic Chains. IOUF THE most comprehensive set of principles on jacket wrestling, Arthrokinetics, for submissions (hyperfunctions, immmobilizations, et cetera).

I have most of Coach Sonnon's materials, and to some degree they ALL play a part of my progression--as there is no difference between striking and grappling.

The difference between my paractice now, and before I began to invest in his "study" packets :wink: is the difference between night and day.

Take care,
Chuck

[Robert V]

I would not be here if I would not of discovered the value of Z-training in my Judo.

Everything Coach Sonnon claimed, came to reality as I followed his IOUF and Leg Fencing program. The four corner drill was the nucleus of my Judo success. It was almost laughable when people would try to throw me when I was hopping around on one leg.

Also, the "Leg Infinity" movements mirrored the action of the legs of a variety of sweeps, trips, reaps, and leg screws.

The "BodyFlow" core conditioning has also been a great help as Judokas try jockey me off balance. It's your core that controls your "Kusushi"(off balancing). If your core is solid and is firing correctly, you will not be moved!

Hips are so important in judo. Your hips are the driving force behind your iniatiation of attack, therefore movements like the "shinbox", Scorpion and "leg infinities" have freed my hips.

However, hips are what so many Judokas use to block throws. But, when then do, they store tension in that area. So, the Z-training and BodyFlow has done well to unbound my "fear reactivity" in that area.

[bob_stra]

The four corner drill was the nucleus of my Judo success.

I don't have the leg fencing tapes yet. Is the four corner drill the same as the one found in the latest Dolf issue, or is it different?

Long post to follow

Personal experiences -

Dykhaniye has pretty much kept me from getting puffed out during newaza. I've been tardy in practicing it lately (past 6 months), but I know from previous experience that the effects return within 2-3 weeks of consistent daily practice. I'd been using the 20/10 45/15 30/5 progression routine. 20 seconds in the morning, followed by 10 sec rest pause. Done in standing, quad hop and supine position. Repeat same idea using nav and prav during mid day / evening workouts.

Actually, IIRC, it had been damn tough eke-ing out progressions. The residual tension of doing the breathing wrong reduces my ability in the rest pause. Hey, big shock ;-)

I think the longest rest pause I managed to comfortably hold was 1:30, and that was directly after a Feldenkrais session, after which I actually "have a clue" as to how I'm using my body in these weird contortions ;-)

The nuances of the quad hop position are quite startling, to say the least. You look at it and think "yeah, I got it". Meanwhile, the rotation of the humerus, the placement and loading on the fingers, the use of the ankles, the use of the scapulae, the activation of the teres, the articulation of the pelvis *around* and separately from the femur, the movement of the pelvis as it effects the spine, head and sternum....there's a *lot* going on in there ;-)

The other nice trick is being able to (somewhat) alleviate the effects of knee rides by altering the breathing pattern. It still hurts (*a lot*), but at least I can keep breathing. Mostly ;-)

What else...."tendon wrap. control solar plexus" from IOUF is fun...ditto spinal wave for lifting...leg infinities for improving entries into ouchi etc. The kids give me crap for doing the leg infinities, elvis pelvis, screwing arms etc for my warm up. "What's that gay dancing you're doing?". BUT I GET THE LAST LAUGH!! BWHAHA HAH HAAH.

(yes, I beat up on small children. Everyone need a hobby ;)

Pretty much everything from IOUF is slowly coming along. Right now I'm working on concealing my triangle point (footwork) and changing grips as I change positions. I think the guys have picked up on that, because no one will go to grips anymore (the just lunge for a double). My special shit trick is gaining the JMC, sinking the pelvis in, and letting them do all the work ;-)

Zero success with grip confirmations / calculating triangle points so far. Generally speaking, it's all happening way too fast for me to be able to intellectualize it (which, to be honest, is where most of my IOUF knowledge is at right now). Something to work on.

My training partner and I are just about to order the Clubbells video and book, so I can't comment on that yet. Suffice it to say - it strikes me as intelligent to gain efficiency at actual "real life speed".

In summary - I've been dragged back into Scott's work almost kicking and screaming. It took a few years to get to the point where I could admit his stuff was (1) of benifit to me (2) didn't invalidate / compete with anything else I was doing, but added to it (3) actually worked.

*shrugs*

Live and learn.

PS: For the lurkers - the above probably sounds like a testimonial. I hate testimonials. Take it as it is - stuff that happened to one schmuck while he wasn't looking. No idea if you'd get the same results. Evaluate the info available for yourselves. Hopefully later on this year, I'll be able to post some science to support the above experiences.

[Scott Sonnon]

No one would take your words as 'admiration' if they knew how much crap you've given me over the years. :wink:
The world needs more 'practical scientists' like you.
I think there would be MANY people interested in your level of discernment in breaking down the A/P to teach the mechanics of the Quad Hop. Put an article together for CST Mag. It'll be a hit!

[bob_stra]

No one would take your words as 'admiration' if they knew how much crap you've given me over the years. :wink:
The world needs more 'practical scientists' like you.
I think there would be MANY people interested in your level of discernment in breaking down the A/P to teach the mechanics of the Quad Hop. Put an article together for CST Mag. It'll be a hit!


Memory like an elephant ;-)

Assuming we're talking abt the same thing (and if not, here's me putting my foot in my mouth)

(dare I mention the letters JP)...I tried to stay neutral thru all that as best I could. It was a weird time for me, personally. I'm still not sure where it all ended up.

*shrugs*

My bad. And I apologize. As far as I'm concerned, I let that go years ago.

Re: Quad hop article - if you'd like, I'll put it on the "To Do" list, along with the crepatus article ;-)

One experience I will share here and now...the quad hop depends one the alignment of the shoulder blades relative to each other across the upper back. Which in turn depends on how weight is distributed thru the hands - ie: wrist pliability.

Also, the bulk of the propulsion comes thru the legs. That hit me after I remembered that 2/3 of propulsion in quadrupeds comes from the hindlegs - the forelimb is almost entirely for support. Which again. is best done by correct bone alignment, not pec contraction.

Hey, what can I say. I'm stupid like that ;-)

[Scott Sonnon]

Water under the bridge, amigo. I respect anyone with the tenacity to remain skeptic despite any perceived hype until gaining personal experience.

I look forward (as I'm sure everyone would) to both articles for CST on your "To Do" list!

[bob_stra]

Water under the bridge, amigo. I respect anyone with the tenacity to remain skeptic despite any perceived hype until gaining personal experience.

I look forward (as I'm sure everyone would) to both articles for CST on your "To Do" list!

That ridiculously gracious of you.

I'd like to "private msg" you later on tommorow when I can form some coherent thoughts. (6am here - I'm off to work in 1hr) I have some things I need to say, and, I suspect, some humble pie to eat. ;-)

[lorenzodamarith]

(yes, I beat up on small children. Everyone need a hobby ;)

hello,

guess one must stick with ones strengths, neh? hahahahahahaha!

just wondering, what are dykhaniye and feldenkrais sessions?

thanks