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cqc10
11-01-2003, 11:05 AM
Hey Bill - I made it over from DD -

I was fairly muscular and relatively ok on body fat % before I changed my diet. I changed my diet up as an experiment using Greg Ellis' recommendations. My body fat % is down, and I'm more muscular now. I feel good as well. From a purely subjective standpoint, it has worked amazingly well.

I've read many of the concerns with low carb diets as posted on other forums. Those concerns range from an alleged lack of scientfic backing, saturated fat and colon cancer risk, and heart disease risk.

Nutrition is like religion in that people have strong opinions and the debates easily get quite heated! :D Still, I am after truth and I want to see beyond the bickering I see on some other forums.

Usually, a non-low-carber cites basic statistical studies about saturated fats or heart disease, and the low-carber will cite more anecdotal evidence about primitive cultures and such.

I've read UDS, Atkins, Protein Power, and parts of Fat of the Land. I've also read everything I can read on the Weston A. Price website and some articles on Mercola.com. Despite reading all of these things, I don't feel "convinced" of low-carb safety. I am not convinced that low-fat is safe either.

My subjective experience has borne out great physical results and a great sense of well being in terms of energy, etc. This, of course, cannot take into account the possibility that external improvements have been made at the possible cost of increased "risk" of various diseases.

A lot of anecdotal evidence suggest low-carb is healthier, and that high-carb could very well be the real problem with obesity levels in society.

"Scientific" studies seem to be more on the side of high carbs/low fat, but the study is only as good as the procedures and methodologies used in the study itself. I've seen bogus studies before and people often have illogical conclusions from the presented data.

So . . . . . I guess my question is what can I do as a next step? Perhaps there are other books or studies to read. I would very much like a low-carb person to help me understand low-carb safety better, and I would not mind having an anti-low-carb person telling me why its not safe. I'm here to learn.

Incidentally, I'm always surprised at how few people who are "anti" low carb can defend their way of eating. It is one thing to attack another position and to demand that the other position defend itself and it is quite another to present a defense of your own position!

Any comments, suggestions, and recommendations on additional reading would be helpful.

Thank you in advance for helping me to understand nutrition more thoroughly!

11-01-2003, 11:46 AM
Hey Welcome over,

Very busy this weekend - will try to answer on monday. The short answer is that none of those studies your concerned about were conducted on "fat adapted" trained subjects. They were done on high-fat AND high-carb folks.

Bill

cqc10
11-01-2003, 12:09 PM
Your short answer is actually one that I expected since I have read it before. It makes sense.

The presence of saturated fat with high level of carbohydrates changes many things. The effect on the digestive tract itself would be different, and the effect on the heart, etc. would also be different.

It is at this point that the anti-low-carb crowd seems to want to dismiss this fact and re-assert their studies even though they may not be applicable at all.

Unfortunately, I don't think there has been any studies on "fat adapted" people in terms of saturated fat causing elevated risk levels for heart disease and colon cancer.

Thanks again Bill! Enjoy your weekend -

Vbrown
11-01-2003, 01:43 PM
I can't recall the source, but there is some interesting research going on regarding how the body manufactures cholesterol depending on the diet and intake times.

The prelim. research seems to indicate that if there is enough carbohydrates consumed with proteins and fats, then larger amounts of LDL's are manufactured. If there are very low levels of carbohydrates at the same time, HDL's are produced since the liver is going thru a different metabolic pathway to use the amino acids and fats for fuel. And that this process can be quite fast.

The evolutionary hypothesis is looking at paleo hunter-gatherer types. 3-5 days of veggies, fruits and nuts, 1-2 days of very lkittle food (ie. on the move) followed by and 1-2 day meat-feast. (consuming the kill fast before spoilage) and then the cycle might start again.

It's only preliminary research and a hypothesis, but I know I feel and perform better eating like this than following the USDA food pyramid.

I'd like some solid studies saying that low carb is bad for the average healthy person. The renal failure study was on those already with kidney disease to begin with...hardly a fair study.

FWIW,

Vince