Choked out tonight!

[Jarlo Ilano]

During a "surprise attack" drill we were doing tonight, I went to sleep! In the drill you stand facing away and your attacker is allowed to do whatever they want. (We were all geared up). One of the girls jumped right on my back and sank her choke in.

I remember being very surprised and hesitating, in my head I was like "What?" then starting to defend myself (apparently too late! :lol: ). I'm not sure why I didn't tap... the surpise of it all, maybe I just froze up, though she said I was fighting it pretty hard, I remember hitting her a little bit, then she said I just went dead. Next thing I know our coach was in front me saying "are you back with us?" My training partner didn't move and she was still in back of me!

Have any of you been choked out before? It was interesting. All of a sudden I was just waking up, very disoriented, wondering what just happened. It must have been a purer blood choke because I did not wake up coughing or anything.

It made me both less frightened and more frightened of the choke. Less frightened because I woke up unscathed. A little light headed, but not too dizzy, and good enough to participate further and be the attacker after a couple of rounds. More frightened because of the speed of losing consciousness and my poor reaction to the surprise attack.

A great drill tonight. I learned a lot in those few seconds.

Just thought I'd share...

[Chuck Kechter]

:!:


Have any of you been choked out before?

I would venture to say that it happens to almost everyone that grapples, at some point in their journey!

And it is an eye opener (no pun intended) for sure!

For fun. . . What were you doing AS the choke was being put on? (Not after--as in defending against it) Did you turtle, and shrug? Shrug a shoulder and turn your head? Other. . .

Sometimes if your awareness is good (**hint, hint** :wink: :D), and your movement is relaxed, and thus "fast" you can alter the structure needed for your opponent/partner to sink in the choke--giving you more time to defend (I would NOT just stand/lie there and let them continue to work for their goal! :twisted: :D )

Good stuff!

Take care my friend!

[JasonE]

Yup. Been choked out when I knew it was coming and when I didn't, sometimes without resistance and sometimes I just couldn't fight it off.

Tapped to thousands of chokes in training over the years. It was easier to know when to tap because I'd been choked out early on. My first jujutsu instructor made everyone get choked out with no resistance at least a few times, both so they could identify what was happening and not panic, and so those of us choking could feel their physiological reactions and learn when to let go. I feel it's an invaluable learning experience for anyone who trains with submissions.

The surprise attack drills are interesting because the level of speed and application used by the attackers can vary tremendously. Trying to identify the exact attack and then formulate a appropriate response takes too long, even under that controlled environment. I learned the hard way that the single best response is to start moving, even if you aren't immediately sure of what's happening, as a moving victim is harder to assault than a stationary victim. As I move, I'm better able to sense how they are applying force and react to it.

The momentary deer-in-headlights reaction you experienced is exactly the thing you want to eliminate. You can apply some Softwork principles to drills like that by having the attackers move a little slower at first, then speeding up... heck, you know this...

What state were you in prior to this portion of the drill? Was it the first attack you took, or had you already fended off some others? Were you tense, keyed-up? Your level of arousal affects your ability to react and also how susceptible you are to being choked out.

Preparation-wise, how often do you get put into a rear choke and then work your way out? Have you drilled this at lower levels of intensity or not? If not, it may be time to explore this before you get into a fight with someone that's planning to tear your head off if he can.

Happy tapping! :twisted:

[Jarlo Ilano]

See, that's the thing...

I've fended off deep chokes before, both in drills where you start off in the choke, and in rolling. I've tapped plenty of times, no shame in it! It was just this time for whatever reason, I had that surprised reaction. A new drill... perhaps I was distracted... maybe it was a freak blanking out.. dunno. *shrug*

I wasn't fearful or angry or anything like that. Just surprised! I'm actually very glad it happened, it was a very good experience for me to have and to play with again.

Thanks for your input and I will definitely think on these things!

[Paul Keith]

Jarlo;
this may have nothing to do with your experience, but jason and I were playing with chokes a few years ago, and found that if you put on a solid "slow" choke and your opponent resists, and you let off the choke for a moment, and then re-apply quickly, and tightly in the same manner (we called this choke pulsing at the time) un-consiousness is almost immediate, the effect is in my opinion more dis-orienting then being choked out normally. just a thought.

[Jarlo Ilano]

Paul,

Thanks for your input! That's super interesting, I wonder what the physiology behind that is?

Man you and Jason sure have done alot of crazy "experiments"! :lol:

[Vbrown]

didn't anyone read my article in the last issue of CST mag?

anyone?

Beuller?

V

[JasonE]

Good lord, Paul! THAT little discovery was a surprise, wasn't it? :shock:

The first time we stumbled across choke pulsing, it was my neck in the wringer... and DAMN did that mess me up FAST. I felt like a cartoon character with his head in a large bell that's been rung.

:twisted: :twisted: Of course, then it my turn to try it on Paul... :twisted: :twisted:

[Paul Keith]

Vince;
sorry I missed the article :oops: , I just read it (great by the way)and it brings to mind a question about my earlier post. when "pulseing" as decribed earlier, is it a possibility that the barorecepters are reading an increase in cerebral blood pressure, and causeing a drop in overall blood pressure, and then when the restriction of the outflow is stopped, and then re-applied that there is a kind of overload to the system? I remember jason was experencing an odd reaction to the effect, and when it was my turn I experiencd odd auditory "sensations" besides the almost immediate unconciousness that resulted. overall it was an extreemly different experience then the other times I have been choked out.

[Paul Keith]

Jarlo, sorry for hijacking the thread.

[Jarlo Ilano]

No apology needed! This discussion is great!

[Vbrown]

Hey Paul,

That is a pretty plausible explainination of the "pulsing". You may be whacking the baroreceptors with blood rather than your forearm, yeilding the same result.

Thanks for the compliment on the article, btw.

I started mulling it over a few years ago when I noticed how fast partners would get "sleepy" when choked in a particular way. Just kind of an "off" switch. They were as suprised as I was!

V

[maxmoon]

i remember when i was 10 the kids used to choke each other out willingly :shock: i was one of them! it was called fainting! some one would stand against the wall ,their first step was to bend down and breath really fast for 20 counts then stand up.upon standing the other kid would apply pressure to the neck intill the fainting accured. the last time i did this was when i was being woken up with a bloody head. seems like no one was catching me and i hit my head hard on the tiles!

i still have memories of this. so young and so stupid. dangerous activity! at that age it seemed cool :shock:

your post reminded me of this crazy fainting game i used to play!

max

[Jarlo Ilano]

Max,

My brother and his friends did that.. :lol: Kids! :lol:

Also spinning around in a circle a bunch of times and trying to run afterwards, that was good game too! :D