Need Help with Pinky Independence

[kagejs]

I'm looking to gain some more independence with my left-hand pinky. As a guitar player I'm constantly looking for ways to improve my playing form and hand relaxation while improvising. I've noticed that on my RIGHT hand (which doesn't mean much for my playing) I can basically fold my pinky to my palm without my ring finger moving. I cannot, however, do this with my left hand, and I would like to see if there are things I can do to help facilitate this.

I do the WW basic and intermediate finger exercises during every workout, but anything else that you all could recommend would be helpful.

Thanks.

[cbeltrante]

Josh,

I don't have the answer for you, but I noticed that I can do the same thing with my left pinky but not my right one. I'm left handed so I guess it's a hand dominance issue. Are you right handed?? If not then there goes my conclusion!!

Chris

[Connie Brown]

Interesting question. I can do it with both, but the right hand (dominant) is more easy. A couple of questions:

How do your WW finger circles differ between hands, if at all?

What does your intuition say about the cause of this imbalance - where it comes from?

After that I would look at whether it's a matter of adding attributes or taking away impediments.

My hands got better for music by adding grip strength - I wouldn't have known that until I experienced it, because I had what I thought was no dexterity issues. Hmph!

[kagejs]

I am right-handed, except for when I'm writing. Because I am blind in my right eye, I was taught to write with my left hand so I could see what I was writing better. That being the case, I can see how being right-hand dominant would help my ability to fold my pinky on my right hand.

Connie, one of the reasons why I think the imbalance occurs is due to improper guitar playing technique. I spent a good 17 or 18 years playing with poor pinky technique due to that blasphemous rock-n-roll music. Simply put, my playing technique was very legato-oriented, which facilitated my ability to be more sloppy and still be able to play what I wanted. It's only been the last few years that I've really paid attention to my pinky's technique when playing.

As for the differences between the hands during WW, the only real difference I feel is that my right hand is more relaxed. ROM seems to be about the same, as does the amount of movement in my ring finger when performing pinky circles.

One thing that I have been working on, outside from my guitar practicing, is trying to really concentrate on the muscle groups being used by my pinky, to try and get some conscious awareness going; essentially trying to re-train my brain to use the muscles more efficiently when bending my pinky. I've had a very small amount of success, I THINK. I don't really know if what I'm doing is actually helping.

[Connie Brown]

Aha and eek.

I say that because it sounds like both SMA and stored tension, PLUS you will need to retrain the pinkie. Wouldn't you know it - a little bit of everything.


It's only been the last few years that I've really paid attention to my pinky's technique when playing.
There's a saying in my music practice world - when a student asks, when can I play like that? the answer is, how soon can you get in 10,000 reps? What we've found is that the older you get, the more reps you need (probably due to the baggage of life) to get something down. Might not be true for us RMAXers. The only limit is how much practice time there is available.


As for the differences between the hands during Warrior Wellness™, the only real difference I feel is that my right hand is more relaxed. ROM seems to be about the same, as does the amount of movement in my ring finger when performing pinky circles.
so maybe the left hand has forgotten how to relax all the way.


to try and get some conscious awareness going; essentially trying to re-train my brain to use the muscles more efficiently when bending my pinky. I've had a very small amount of success, I THINK. I don't really know if what I'm doing is actually helping.
I bet it is. Remember the rate of progress follows the fibonacci spiral - early improvements are smaller and the better you get, all of a sudden you can see an incremental jump where you couldn't before because it was too small to see. It's still working!

It sounds like you're right on track!!

[kagejs]

so maybe the left hand has forgotten how to relax all the way.

Definitely. It's something I'm working on. Another part of the problem is that usually when playing "rock" you tend to misalign the hand, wrist, and forearm. I certainly did growing up, and that has come back to haunt me tenfold.

[Scott Sonnon]

Connie, well and thoughtfully said.

[kagejs]

So I guess I should just keep doing what I'm doing and not look for other methods to include as well? No one has any other exercises I can try as well?

[Daniel M.]

This one requires you to have a piano (or a keyboard with weighted keys).

Sit at the piano in good form, on the edge of a bench, back straight, stomach loose, feet flat.

Place your right and left hands over 5 white notes. Right hand can start thumb at middle C, left can be an octave below.

Start with either hand, your choice.

Depress all 5 white keys and hold them down. Then play 10 short notes with your thumb, first finger, etc...

Make sure your hand is rounded, the wrist floated and level with the back of the hands, the knuckles rounded and the contact with the key is done at the top of the pad of the finger towards the tip. May be tricky if you have guitar nails...

Repeat 3 to 5 times each hand. I would do this after playing scales, arpeggios or Bach to get your mobility in before the strengthening...

Worked wonders for me and believe it helped my violin as well as my piano.

Best,

D.

[kagejs]

Daniel,

Thanks. I guess I could get out the old Hanon book and work through that as well... Never really crossed my mind, since I'm not much into practicing piano scales. :)

[Connie Brown]

I'm not much into practicing piano scales. :)
That's how we talk trash to classical musicians. All that practice and what do you get? piano music.

ha ha h ah ha

You know bagpipe music "sounds like that" because there are only 9 notes and about a dozen "grace notes" that you memorize and combine in nifty patterns.

I had a master teacher that said, anyone can get any movement down if you do it for 30 days of 30 minutes a day. NO ONE does this except him (Bruce Woodley of St Charles Something PB San Francisco). Because can you imagine? the same little dibble 2-3 times a second for 30 minutes?

[kagejs]

Connie, I should send you some of my guitar lesson material to see what you think. :)

[Daniel M.]

Josh,

I'm no fan of scales either! I was so thrilled when I got good enough to practice by playing Bach inventions instead of Hanon and co. Cellist Pablo Casals said he would play the Bach inventions as a warm up every single morning...

I omitted some torture from the drill I described to you - I was made to do it with pencils balanced on the backs of my hands! Made doing my taiji form with a book and a cup of hot tea on my head seem quite sensible when I was introduced to that particular practice!

Also you can inch a heavy rod or dowel up and down using only your pinky and fourth fingers. May not be too sophisticated, but it does build strength in the side-to-side plane.

Best,

Daniel

[kagejs]

I get enough scale practice for my guitar lessons. My teacher is a big fan of raga and polytonal scales, so my fingers get a workout; the pinky just needs more work than the rest.

[PaoloValladolid]

I'm just about wrapping up my first year of total experience on the viola. The only time I will cover a scale in my practice sessions is if I am having trouble hearing a particular melodic fragment in my head, as far as which notes ought to be flat, sharp, quarter flat, or quarter sharp (I study Persian music). Then I will play the scale up and down a few times to clarify where the pitches ought to be.

The main reason is time allocation.

Last year, I was in a community college orchestra that required me to practice enough material for a 2 hour show. For every 10 minutes of material I was given to play, I had to practice at least 30 minutes a day, because of my low experience/skill level. So if I practiced everything in one day, I'd need about 6 hours at least. It's not that I would purposely aim for that amount of time, its just that the time I had to spend figuring out the fingerings for each measure (especially if a passage requires position shifts), how to play the rhythms correctly (I still hate dotted notes, especially dotted 8ths appearing in the same measure as dotted quarter notes and 16th notes), etc. added up fast! In actuality, I was forced to practice different pieces on different days.

This year, my teacher is more concerned about my tone quality (especially bow control) and dynamics than how fast I can play something. The music we cover rarely includes a scale being played up or down. Thus, I allocate the most time to practicing the music itself and the 2nd most time to slow bows (currently shooting for 10 secs of consistent tone and volume for a full bow in each direction on each string - the British jazz virtuoso Graham Clark practices 20-sec. bows!). I wish I started slow bow practice sooner - I believe I would have advanced at a faster rate towards mastery of the instrument. It's not just the greater bow control that results from this, it is also the easier identification and rectification of tension issues in the bowing wrist and arm.

I have found Warrior Wellness and related practices to be beneficial for improving my vibrato. Vibrato on viola is highly dependent on relaxation skills. The beginners asking how to do vibrato are legion. The problem is if you try too hard to vibrato, you start to "press", and the more you press, the more tense you get, the more tense you get, the harder it is to vibrato, the harder it is, the more frustrated you get, so you press even more...

[PaoloValladolid]

I'm just about wrapping up my first year of total experience on the viola. The only time I will cover a scale in my practice sessions is if I am having trouble hearing a particular melodic fragment in my head, as far as which notes ought to be flat, sharp, quarter flat, or quarter sharp (I study Persian music). Then I will play the scale up and down a few times to clarify where the pitches ought to be.

The main reason is time allocation.

Last year, I was in a community college orchestra that required me to practice enough material for a 2 hour show. For every 10 minutes of material I was given to play, I had to practice at least 30 minutes a day, because of my low experience/skill level. So if I practiced everything in one day, I'd need about 6 hours at least. It's not that I would purposely aim for that amount of time, its just that the time I had to spend figuring out the fingerings for each measure (especially if a passage requires position shifts), how to play the rhythms correctly (I still hate dotted notes, especially dotted 8ths appearing in the same measure as dotted quarter notes and 16th notes), etc. added up fast! In actuality, I was forced to practice different pieces on different days.

This year, my teacher is more concerned about my tone quality (especially bow control) and dynamics than how fast I can play something. The music we cover rarely includes a scale being played up or down. Thus, I allocate the most time to practicing the music itself and the 2nd most time to slow bows (currently shooting for 10 secs of consistent tone and volume for a full bow in each direction on each string - the British jazz virtuoso Graham Clark practices 20-sec. bows!). I wish I started slow bow practice sooner - I believe I would have advanced at a faster rate towards mastery of the instrument. It's not just the greater bow control that results from this, it is also the easier identification and rectification of tension issues in the bowing wrist and arm.

I have found Warrior Wellness and related practices to be beneficial for improving my vibrato. Vibrato on viola is highly dependent on relaxation skills. The beginners asking how to do vibrato are legion. The problem is if you try too hard to vibrato, you start to "press", and the more you press, the more tense you get, the more tense you get, the harder it is to vibrato, the harder it is, the more frustrated you get, so you press even more...

[mindwrench]

Hey Josh,
After noticing a big imbalance in the strength between my left and right arms (being right hand dominant), I started doing activities with my left hand I normally used my right hand for. Like brushing your teeth or shooting pool.

Of course, it was awkward and frustrating right at first, but I quickly came to have a very good balance between the two. My strength pretty much evened out. The size of my arms also balanced out, which was nice as there had been a considerable difference between the two.
I also play keyboard instruments so I would play the melody with my left hand, it improved my playing drastically.

So, start switching your daily movements from your right to your left.
Hope this helps,

Rob Renner