Coach Szolek (Warrior Diet)

[Mike]

Coach Szolek, what are your thoughts on Ori's Warrior diet. Based on what I know about nutrition, it doesn't seem like a very healthy way to eat. On the other hand, there have been times when I've eaten like Ori recommends (due to work) and it has leaned me out some. Recently I've seen stories on the news about studies' supporting fasting during the day!

Just wanted some input from you!

Mike

I lasted about a month. Many of us tried it and had to adapt it quite a bit due to workout schedules.

It also flies in the face of fairly established science as to the insulin effect of huge meals - the caloric restriction is so severe it still works.

I definitely cut down down on the amount i eat during the day, and got out of the big lunch thing. But feel that a couple protien shots during the day work better.

Bill

[Mike]

Well, I lost about 25-30 lbs. on the Warrior Diet! The only problem is that I'm not sure how much of that was muscle!

[Doug Szolek]

Mike,

I applaud your results on the Warrior Diet. As for me, I'm in agreement here with Bill. I enjoyed it (after the first week) but had a lot of trouble getting it to fit with my day to day efforts at that time. I think one of my bigger problems was that I was working as a cook during my time on it, primarily short order breakfast shift and this was the type of kitchen where everyone was always nibbling on something through their shift. Also, I wasn't training nearly as hard/often as I am currently so I think that is what allowed it to work for me then. But this again brings me back to Bills well-stated point that with as much as I'm training now, I need a more constant protein intake through the day than it allows.

Honestly, anymore I don't see the need for rote program diets. I am the healthiest and strongest (though I really don't differentiate the two) I've ever been and I attribute that to completely tailoring my nutrition around my activity, geography, finances, body type, personality, goals, etc.

What I mean by that is, I feel there is much to learn from the many well researched and result-proven diet methods out there, but in the end I use what I learn from them to more accurately tailor my nutrition to the criteria mentioned above.

So to apply that to Ori's Warrior Diet, if somehow my daily activities had me so busy that I could not have access to food through the day, then I might apply some of the ideas behind it to the way I ate when I finally got the chance to at the end of the day. But that would be more of a "making lemonade out of lemons" situation then an ideal nutrition plan for ME.

I say that because I know that I function optimally on many smaller high protein high fiber meals spaced evenly through all 24 hours that I'm given each day. Does this mean that I have to call my personal nutrition plan, "The Coach Szolek DietTM"? Well, no. Because I don't need to identify the way I eat to myself, and I do not think that the way I'm eating would be optimal for anyone else. My nutritional intake has been tailored specifically for me, by me. I did it through plenty of research and years of trial and error to where I know now that if I travel to a different region I can plan ahead for the likely changes I'll need to make based on: the climate of the place to which I'm traveling, the activities in which I am likely to participate, the amount of sleep I'm planning to get, etc.

Well, upon a re-read that makes it sound entirely too much like I've got this whole diet thing figured out and lord knows I don't :? . I'm constantly looking into new ideas (both new overall and new to me) and methods to continue to refine the way I eat. Which sounds strange, because the more I refine the way I eat, the less I eat refined foods :wink:

I guess what I'm getting at is, I recommend you make a list of what you need to base your nutrition around. Include, the things I've mentioned above as well as any physique goals, energy level augmentation, and overall recoverability and then get your nose buried in some well researched books. Post your nutritional needs criteria here for added feedback to see what has worked for others with similar goals and needs and then make the necessary changes to build the person you are becoming. Because when you boil it down :wink: , our diet is what is making the person that we will be tomorrow. Who are you? How do you want to be? What do you want to become?

Amen to that Brother

[Scott Sonnon]

the more I refine the way I eat, the less I eat refined foods Had me in stitches. :lol:
Doug, it's obvious you've been exercises the grey matter. Superlative post. Love to see you convert that into an article on the "Anti-Program Diet" - something many, many people need to read. Great work, amigo.

[Mike]

Thanks for the response all of you! Coach Szolek, I usually eat warrior style because I really don't have alot of time to eat during the day. I'm not trying to say that I'm busier than everyone else, it's just that in order for me to keep ahead at work, I can't take all of my breaks. Also, I find it really hard to stick with low fat or low carb diets, but the Warrior Diet lets me eat both carbs and fats. Keep in mind that my meal(s) on the Warrior diet are much healthier than what I would eat during the day at work. My concern is the overwhelming number of people who say the Warrior Diet is an unhealthy way to eat and that my metabolism is slowing down and I'm losing all of my muscle etc. I showed the book to my doctor and he almost threw it back at me, so you see my confusion!

I used to weigh 190 lbs. at 5'7" so I was pretty big. The problem is that I gained a lot of weight around my waist and especially in my face. I looked at a few pictures of myself and I couldn't believe it! :shock: I did have a lot of muscle and I felt stronger back then, but the fat was beginning to pack on. A lot of my eating habits had to do with school. I was studying and eating all day so of course I was gonna gain weight. After the semester ended, I started a new job basically working 9am to 7pm 5 days a week. So I kind of unknowingly started eating warrior style (after work). As a result, I've gone down to 160 lbs., lost a couple of chins and my pants fit. So, personally I kind of like the Warrior Diet, but if the long term effects are gonna ruin me, I'd definitely stop it!

[Doug Szolek]

It sounds to me like you're doing a great job of making lemonade out of lemons with you're work schedule.

Something that troubled me about your reply though:


My concern is the overwhelming number of people who say the Warrior Diet is an unhealthy way to eat and that my metabolism is slowing down and I'm losing all of my muscle etc.

How is anyone other than you going to know if your metabolism is slowing down :? :?:

I think too often we can let the bad press surrounding a matter turn it into a self-fulfilling prophesy in our lives. If you hear enough people say that the Warrior Diet is bad for you and you choose to believe them over your own study into the matter and the results you've experienced, then sooner or later the "bad" effects that you hear about will start cropping up.

Have you noticed that you're lacking energy through the day?

Or do you see signs that the fast heightens your senses and sharpens your focus as Ori suggests that it will?

Have you noticed any significant loss of muscle mass or strength?

How are you training now and how were you training before you went on the warrior diet?

I think the answers to the above questions will clear up a lot of your confusion regarding the path of your nutrition.

Just to add a positive voice to your situation; it sounds as though the plan of fasting through the day and having a large well mapped meal at night (as suggested by the Warrior Diet) may be ideal to give you the freedom to put all of your day into your work 8) . You need to decide if you are making any health related sacrifices to do this and then if they are worth it to meet your goals for your career.

I'm interested to hear the answers to the above questions. Let me know your thoughts on them and we'll be happy to give you the feedback of those who have been there :)

[Mike]

I know nobody knows my body more than me, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm easily influenced at times. On most other boards people tear down the idea of fasting during the day because they say science has stated this and that. Sometimes it's hard to ignore the arguments. In regards to your questions, the busier I am, the less hungry I get during the day. On the rare occassions that I have been less than busy and then I do eat, I feel sluggish afterwards for almost 2 hours or so. I haven't really noticed a difference in focus or mental sharpness. The thing that concerns me about my weight loss is that I'm sure some of it was muscle, although I'm not really sure if it was the drop in calories or if it was what I was eating that has caused the muscle loss. I'm thinking of upping my protein when I eat and seeing what happens. My strength has gone down a bit, but nothing to really be worried about. At times, I do miss the extra strength and bodyweight though! Sorry for being a fence sitter here.

As for training. Prior to losing weight I was heavily into BBing. During my transition towards the Warrior diet, I became heavily influenced by guys like Pavel and Mike Mahler so functional strength kind of became my focus. Currently, I'm doing some bodyweight work, from the Scrapper's site, EXTENSIVE grip work (COC's, sledgehammers, plate pinching), and various free weight movements (mostly standing movements) like deadlifts, overhead presses, hammer curls, dumbell snatches, side presses and turkish get ups etc. I enjoy this training much more and am always looking to add new techniques to my routine.

Question for you, how did your body respond to this diet? Did you lose a lot of weight?

Thanks for the personable responses, they are greatly appreciated. I was expecting one or two sentences at the most, but you've given me more. Thanks again!

Mike

[Doug Szolek]

Mike, I'm always glad to offer what help I can :)

As for how the diet worked for me. I did lose some weight on it but not too any miraculous level. I enjoyed the discipline of fasting through the day and found that that added to my overall well being. In point of fact I still fast regularly. At least 1day a month, and when training allows 1 day a week. Also once or twice a year I enjoy what I get from an extended fast, 3-4 days.

But back to the point. I functioned fine on the diet at the time. After the first week (which was pretty harsh) my energy picked up and I fealt healthy.

[Mike]

Major problem now. I had my bf tested yesterday and it's actually HIGHER than before I did the warrior diet. My face looks thinner, but my BF is more? I must have lost a lot of muscle.

[Doug Szolek]

What method of BF testing did you use and what were the before and afters?

[Mike]

We used bf calipers at school. Before I was 15%, now I'm closer to 18%.

[Mike]

Nevermind Coach, we made a mistake in the calculations, I'm actually down to about 12% bf. I knew something was wrong because my stomach is way tighter these days.

I have a question regarding meals and timing. The most strict I've been on the Warrior Diet is one meal a day! I'd fast all day, come home at 7:30pm and have dinner and that's it. Even though I'd be hungry an hour or two later, I'd really buckle down and NOT eat. Now, I'm thinking about maybe giving in and having 1 or 2 SMALL meals after dinner at night.

I'm just wondering as to how to schedule these meals. Sometimes I eat dinner at 6 pm, sometimes at 7:30 pm and sometimes at 8:30 pm. So would the time I eat my first meal dictate when/how much I should eat during the follow up meals?

[Doug Szolek]

Could you give a run down of how big you "dinner" is and of what it is comprised. When I was eating this way, my one meal was usually too big to even think about food until the next day. Though my metabolic rate at the time may have been very different from yours currently.

[Mike]

For instance my dinner would be a large salad with oil and vinegar dressing and two chicken breasts. Then I would have a couple of pieces of fruit for dessert. That's pretty much it. From time to time I'd give in and have some nuts or corn chips, but most of the time I was strict about having one meal because I was seeing such GREAT results!

[Doug Szolek]

Are the chicken breasts boneless/skinless variety? If so you may find boneless thighs to offer a more lasting satisfaction. Because the thighs have more fat than the breasts and with this diet you shouldn't need to worry about fat intake. Though you will have to increase the quantity of thighs to get the same total amount of meat as you do with the breasts. Ultimately I think adding to you main meal just a little will keep you sticking with the diet theory better than having some smaller meals/snacks after dinner.

[Mike]

Well, I actually prefer white meat! Would it hurt to have some extra carbs like rice and/or noodles?

[Doug Szolek]

I'd go brown rice or whole wheat noodles (that is if you're ok with wheat). If you prefer the white meat that's fine, perhaps you could prepare it in a way that adds some healthy fats to end product thereby leaving you full longer. Just a thought...

[Mike]

I actually REALLY like brown rice so that wouldn't be a problem. By healthy fats do you mean oils? I think I can make the proper adjustments from here.

But on the topic of meal time. The latest I eat is 8 pm. and the earliest is 6 pm. Would you say that eating later is better? Should I try to stretch it out longer even on the days when I would usually eat at 6 pm?

Ori usually makes reference to 8:00 pm so I'm kind of interpreting that as the optimal time to eat. But 8:00 pm seems kind of late to me sometimes. What time did you eat when you were on it?

Thanks again for answering my posts! It has helped me greatly.

[Doug Szolek]

Go for whichever time you feel better on. By feel I don't mean warm fuzzies, I mean how you are able to function as a result of the diet. Go by what works best for you and what your schedule dictates of course.

When I was on this diet I usually enjoyed huge heavy salads with everything from butter-nut sqaush to steak added in. It was always easier to make on large dish than seperate courses.

[Mike]

During the day I like to have a couple of cups of coffee with cream. Is it ok to have cream in my coffee or should I drink it black?

[Jay76]

Its funny. I gained weight on the W diet. I put on something like 10 pds in a year. During work days, i had an half hour break i would do pullups or be breated seires and stretch. Then train at 2 or 3pm, then go home and eat. Train again at 6pm, then eat the rest of my meals. Body blew up. I wanted to gain weight, so I was happy.

The diet taught me to really trust my instincts and my body actually craved what it wanted. I got over my addictions as well. Its really amazing. I like the fact that food did not control me anymore.

I have got off it for a while and now I put on some fat and it sux. I am slowly going back to it, since it was a good way to eat.

Its amazing. Not eating for a while, then training and then eating...wow..my energy levels went through the roof.

At times I was tired, but once I got moving, I had more energy. My strengh levels got stronger.

Once a week or so I would start eating my meals a little earlier in the evening and eat a lot more on this day.

One cannot eat this diet if one ony wants endurance, like long distance running, etc...body needs more fuel throughout the day for this kind of training.

I get up at 4 30am for work. Everyone I know who works this shift has to go to bed early say 8 or 9pm. I got to bed around 11pm or more..I felt great. People thought I was nuts..hah...

Jay

[BullOnTheBeach]

Like Jay, I am on the diet right now. I have been on it only for 3 months and the changes I see are amazing. I have gone from 235 to 219 and I started at 23%BF and I get my BF tested this Friday, but I was at 18% about a month ago.
But like with Coach Szolek and your self Mike, it just doesn't work for some people. Think back to when the Atkins Diet hit. You heard about people staying on it for month on end, then there where those that could do it more then a week. Its all about what your body is accepting to.

A trainer friend of mine use different diets for different training cycles and bounces back and forth. And he doesn't even stay with a "true" diet. He pieces together from different ones. Its like the Frankenstien of diets!!

Hell, I don't plan on being on the Warrior Diet forever. I plan on cycling off by the end of March.

So, I would say read up. See what seems reasonable and play with it. There is an exciting feeling about trying something new...even if it is a diet.


Travis