How to punch HARD question...(sorry, long winded-question)

[lafnjack]

I had a question regarding how to punch hard. After experiences with some internal MA practitioners who can display some incredible feats of strength and punching power, I've really been after the ability to hit harder. I'm a relatively large guy anyway, but I want my ability to rely less on muscular strength and body mechanics, and more on myofascial release/proper tensegrity and body mechanics.

I have Coach's excellent DVD's and videos on Be Breathed (my favorite), Fisticuffs (my even MORE favorite), Softwork, Integrating Structure, Warrior Wellness and his Clubbell vid. I also have gone through the Bodyflow book, and looked through (although not completely read yet) the Clubbell book. And I've (of course) devoured this discussion forum resource.

So logically it seems I'd want to combine performance breathing with the punching mechanics in Fisticuffs/Softwork. Now here's my dilemma and what I >GUESS< might be the solution. If I'm wrong, please correct me or point me in the right direction or if its covered in another of Coach's products, let me know (or even more embarassing, if it already exists in one that I own and I've missed it, let me know).

1) Performance breathing at the highest level uses an active exhale with a control pause, followed by a passive inhale, according to the Breath Mastery Scales.
2) The spinal flexion of the Be Breathed is similar to exercises that build spinal musculature in internal arts (Squatting Monkey comes to mind). Therefore, that unbowing is just another variable in the components of a powerful punch (ie: calf plus thigh plus hips plus SPINE (either vertebra by vertebra or as a whole) plus shoulder plus elbow plus wrist plus hand). So I'd want to KEEP the unbowing as part of the punching process (IF it presents itself...power takes time, speed diminishes power, there's an inverse correlation and I'm sure my opponent won't wait for me to get ready...but this is a hypothetical).
3) If I use the spinal flexion and punch, but allow a passive inhale, then I'm INHALING on the punch. I want to be exhaling or at the control pause, yesno?

So here's the issue. Let's say I'm spring-loaded (legs bent, spine flexed, arms ready...I'm totally cocked and ready to unload)...how do I punch on my exhale since I'm at the control pause right now?

After mucho mucho thought last night, I came to this, but I'd like confirmation or more information, or at least a point in the right direction...

If I'm cocked and ready, as I unleash, my hip turn (even as I unflex the spine as a wave [ala Coach] or a bow [ala SOME internal arts]) causes abdominal contraction either expelling more air or increasing the length of my control pause. But this only works if my hips go from being PARALLEL with my feet, to closer to perpendicular to them (or stay perpendicular throughout the movement). What if I'm punching at an angle where my hips stay parallel with my feet during the entire course of the punch? Then it becomes a passive inhale, yesno?

Thanks to the Tribe for any information they can provide,
John Simons

PS: My goal is to utilize RMAX's punching protocol as I believe it is healthier and more streamlined... I only bring up the internal issues as a compare/contrast thing.

[sames]

Who'd have thought that such a small topic (hitting hard) could be so complex? Are you looking for "real" hard (PSI/pascals) or "perceived" hard (which could be either "most painful" or "most damaging" or "most disruptive to structure" or some combination)?

Even physics hard is tricky. Upping mass and speed while decreasing the surface area of the impact. Upping mass involves all sorts of mechanisms for getting mor of your body behind the punch while maintaining balance and defensibility. Decreasing surface area increases (in most cases) risk of injury to self but this can be reduced by superior technique and body alignment. Speed is usually good but the fastest way of throwing a punch doesn't necessarily optimize projected mass OR defense.

I think this is a great question just because it is so deceptively tricky.

-steve

[lafnjack]

I'm looking to a simple FIST strike (vertical probably)... so the mass of a fist is the surface area in this scenario (rather than a Phoenix Eye or somesuch with a decreased surface area...I'm just a fist kinda guy).

And since most of my feelings of being hit with a fist are to ME (rather than to measuring equipment), all I can say is that actual PSI is preferred. Especially in relation to Performance Breathing (if this is the correct breathing method for such a scenario...), as I feel the tightened core during the exhale/control pause for core stability is key to ensuring proper power propogation.

I figure once the protocol for a punch generation is cleared, then that protocol can easily be applied to weaponizing the total architecture as Coach Sonnon illustrates in Fisticuffs. But in the interum, I was hoping this example would be the most easily accessible one to explain my current dilemma. But you're right, there's a lot to it.

Thanks,
John Simons

[lafnjack]

REPOST

[Jrichardson]

John,

It sounds like you're approaching these concepts by moving into a loaded position, like drawing a bow, and then releasing the stored energy from there when you're ready to "launch" the punch. Am I reading your description right?

[lafnjack]

Mr. Richardson, yes you're absolutely correct.

Now I realize a fight is nebulous and ephemeral. Positions change, optimum placing rarely (if ever) happens...you take what you get. HOWEVER, for the purpose of understanding the mechanics of correct punching mechanics per RMAX principles, while utilizing the Performance Breathing protocols, I want to make sure I'm doing/understanding things correctly.

Now in the Indonesian and Chinese arts I've studied, there are methods of "closing" (closing your BODY by bending the spine, bending the legs, etc...not closing the gap) so you're in that locked and loaded position in a fight and ready to unload. If I marry RMAX concepts to it, if you figure you pepper the opponent with punches and kicks and create (within your opponent) chains of tension, when their downward performance spiral maximizes, they tend to overreach their blows...they panic and form goes out the window...they're looking for the BIG SHOT...at that point, its easy to grab their limb and "close" (while pulling them further off-balance)...locking yourself into a position to unleash that IDEAL power shot. Some can get to it quicker and have better strategies. But this is the easiest method to create the loaded scenario in realtime fighting from my limited experience.

All my best,
John Simons

[Scott Sonnon]

John,

A very erudite and insightful question merits a very simple and direct response.

The RMAX Breath Mastery Scale proposes the following:

1. At minimum (scaleable to the threaat intensity, to one's experience in a particular encounter and to one's skill level with a particular skill family), actively exhale on the perceived effort (passively inhale on the cessation of the perceived effort) - the level of discipline in breath.

2. As one concentrates on the level of discipline (and as one's experience in a particular type of encounter and one's skill level increases with a particular skill family), one gains the ability to ALLOW flow breathing to occur. Flow breathing (passive exhalation on compression; passive inhalation on expansion) is very difficult to 'do' consciously, especially under stress (such as in fighting.) It takes 'discipline' - and typically begins with one active exhalation.

3. As one refines one's ability to 'get out of the way' of flow breathing, one tends to remain at the end of an exhalation (in the control pause) longer and longer. This is not a conscious application (especially under stress), but happens as a result of discipline and experience (in daily personal practice) of getting out of the way of flow.

I have found that without exception that every individual (myself included) who attempts to impose a particular breathing agenda on a particular movement ALWAYS suffers diminished performance under stress. That performance suffers is a given, but in most cases the individual is not even able to REMEMBER to try and impose a particular breathing agenda upon a particular skill.

Now, the point here is that one does not need to be concerned with the timing of a particular skill in the generation of power. It doesn't need to be timed. It's not specific linkage that's the problem, but rather it's general practice which is the issue... for everyone at all times.

And I say this in particular about the ephermeral and elusive nature of mastery. Mastery is literally (and not cliche) an ongoing process. One can have mastered a particular movement at a particular point in time through diligent practice. We can witness the lengthy control pause the individual displays through skilled performance under stress. However, even then, it's the length of the control pause which is the scale of mastery.

This weekend my family had the blessed honor of singing bhajans with Swami Amritaswarupanunda as we visited the living Saint, Ammachi (Mata Amritanandamayi). As the we sang along blissfully my mind rushed back in for a moment to realize that for as long as I could remember, Swami had been singing one word - 'ma' (the Sanskrit word for 'love'), without inhale, for probably 3-4 minutes. When I realized it, I was awed. Mastery lived in that one word.

Mastery is displayed in one moment and then gone. It must be practiced, and it must be practiced through various skills through the above process of 1-3. One must continue to practice or we 'fall' to lower levels of anger (our operating mode of forcing life) and fear (our default setting for survival).

And with each new skill, and with each new experience, we begin anew.

[lafnjack]

Thank you for the compliment, Coach. And thanks for the answer.

In regards to the Swami...3-4 minutes? Wow. That is amazing (inhuman)... Its always thrilling to see someone do something that you didn't know was humanly possible. Quite a feat!

Two weeks ago, my wife and I went to Las Vegas. We saw Le Reve at the Wynn Casino. Its a show by Dragone. Very artistic with people who exemplify flow. And then we saw Ka at the MGM. Ka was amazing. Blew away every other Cirque show I've seen (O, Varekai, Mystere). When I see these performers who have mastered their craft so eloquently and completely, it leaves me with nothing but awe. Strength, flexibility, artistry...wow. Its seeing these people who've pushed the envelope that inspires me to train more. To me, these kinds of shows are another venue that truly shows what RMAX is about.

All my best,
John Simons

[JasonE]

I'll be in Vegas at the end of July. Thanks for the tips. I'm hoping to see Blue Man Group, and will definitely look for these movement acts.