Triangle Point

[atlas1212]

In IOUF, I'm confused.

Is the triangle point the triangulation from the parallel between my opponents feet or betwen my support foot and his support foot?

[Ryan Murdock]

Both :wink:

[sames]

In beginner/newbie silat the triangle point is the 3rd point of triangle that has the feet as the other two points. The 3rd point is on a line that is a perpendicular bisect of the line between the two feet. Doesn't matter your feet or someone elses. The simple demo is have someone stand up. Give them a hard push on the shoulders forward. They will normally move one foot forward to catch themselves and will, usually, put that foot right on the triangle. I say usually because some folks are slippery and have learned unnatural habits.

I'm not sure about IOUF but can readily see that the concept of the triangle can be extended to interactions between 2+ people also (that is to say the triangle point becomes relative to both parties rather than one persons feet).

[Scott Sonnon]

Jason,

As Ryan alludes to, it is initially practiced / felt as the bisection of the line created by the feet of your partner(s).

Then, as practice continues, it is realized as the bisection between any two feet (your two or your partner's two.) This is where people begin to understand intuitive throws, initially realized as 'counter-throws' which "just happen".

Next, it is realized as the bisection of any two contacts with the ground; for instance, when blocking an 'inside reap', your partner often places a forward hand on the ground (that is, if the reap is performed with conviction - as a forward roll stopped by your crotch). This creates a triangle point at the bisection between his hand and his foot, and his hand and your foot. Another example is that it is at this point that people start to internalize the triangle point theory in groundfighting - reversals, escapes and sweeps are as a result of realizing the triangle point between any two points of contact - like the hips, elbows, back and head.

Finally, it is realized as the bisection of any two protracted points of contact; for example, if a partner moves aggressively to clinch and you evade, his forward inertia (his expectation of grabbing you) becomes a 'protracted' point of contact. This is where things can often appear 'spooky' due to the precognitive evasion that it demonstrates. Despite how eerie it can appear, it's no different than walking down stairs, expecting there to be an additional stair, but you hit the landing with your foot... hard, and as you do the carpet slips to the side on the smooth hardwood floor. As you reach out reflexively to break your fall to the side, you end up toppling forward down the stairs in a roll. To the onlooker it would have appeared that you suddenly threw yourself into a roll down the stairs.

[atlas1212]

Ah.. Ok. It's going to take some practice to learn to "see" all the points as they reveal themselves in dynamic competition. But I now know where to look and understand what you mean. I was a bit confused because the original explanation seemed to be parallel between their feet as the origination of finding the triangle point, but as the series went on, triangle points were pointing in unexpected directions. I was like, "Hey, their feet are at X, why is the triangle point at Z instead of Y?" Makes sense now. Thanks for the explanations.

[Scott Sonnon]

Jason,

It's not a fault of yours. My ability to coach has improved since that filming so many years ago. I was able to demonstrate all of the concepts, but not communicate them as effectively as I can now; though I still believe the series is valuable. I've been asked to redo the series, but with my schedule, I just don't know if it's feasible.

[atlas1212]

From my perspective, I wouldn't put a high priority on redo-ing the series. There is PLENTY to learn. Months if not longer in fact. If someone can master that series as presented, then a few seminars would be in order at that point I think.

[Scott Sonnon]

You're probably right, and I'll use that as an excuse to avoid having to refilm it. :lol:

[atlas1212]

The tribe has spoken.

[bill cogswell]

The Triangle Point is a very simple concept that is the "key to the city" for Takedowns and Throws. ;)

(at least in my opinion :D )

[atlas1212]

Bill, thanks for calling it simple and making me feel dumb for not getting it. :) (just kidding)

[bill cogswell]

LOL, didn't mean it to come out that way ;)

[atlas1212]

You are right though, Bill.

It is a simple "concept/truth". It's one of those, "How come I've never been taught this before?" type of things. Because it is so simple, and makes such a big difference. I'm just glad I've been exposed to the Softwork Curriculum in general.

The complex part for me was how the triangle is formed so I can find the point. Once the forum members so kindly explained it to me, it now makes total sense.

[Scott Sonnon]

Jason,

It's a concealed self-evident truth due to conventional martial arts fixation and polarization on hardwork. Unless the event is slowed down in practice, the emotional arousal conceals what is a universal truth in all martial arts. That's the real benefit of the Softwork Continuum: regardless what your 'delivery system' is - be it boxing, groundfighting, grappling, fencing, etc.

[lafnjack]

Alot of Coach Sonnon's concepts/methods are amazingly simple, once he explains it. Reminds me of a story...

A guy's fridge is on the fritz. He calls a repairman to come over. The mechanic says it'll cost 50 bucks for him to fix it. The guy agrees. The mechanic looks at the fridge for about 2 minutes and goes and tightens one screw in the back. The fridge suddenly works. The customer says, "I paid you 50 bucks to tighten one lousy screw?!?!! I coulda done that!" The mechanic replies, "No. You paid me 50 bucks because I knew which screw to tighten."

Not that I'm saying people here don't realize that. I just like the story.

[Scott Sonnon]

I've often paid much more than that to have a coach tell me I have a screw loose.

[Robert V]

No offense, but you must have a screw loose to think your explanations in IOUF were not efficient :roll: . You are talking about my favorite adopted child!
IOUF changed my martial life!

It was great...brilliant...outstanding work!

[Scott Sonnon]

Like anything, brother, we can always improve. I continue to work to improve as a coach, as do you... but yeah, screws still remain loose in the Sonnon household. :lol: